I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

Bren-2007

I honestly do wonder how she lost 10 more points with women.  Do we want her to 'man up,' be smarter, shut up .. what is it?  She's a mother, a breadwinner and a politician .. why aren't more women drawn to her?

Edited:  link from previous page http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/01/20/borger.palin.fatigue/index.html?hpt=T2

konakat

So many subjects -- well, here goes;

Hello Athena!  I miss you!

Pistachio gelato.  Vanilla ice cream (with chocolate or butterscotch sauce).

The upper-lower/lower-middle class always gets screwed.  Reminds me of my BF in Boston -- stabalized after heart attack then kicked out of the hospital.  Gluing his broken dental bridge with epoxy glue and wondering why he had horrible stomach aches.

Palin lost me after the first "you betcha!".  Leaders don't do cutsie.  I won't bother listing my other reasons.

I'm a DNR girl.  If you have to, put a pillow over my face so I don't linger and rot away.

YramAL

Perhaps cutting Medicaid in Arizona is a prolonged "death panel" of sorts. Wrong, wrong, wrong....

Mary 

Medigal

molly52:  What will the next generation of baby boomers be generous with?  If we have a miraculous turn around in our economy and job market "maybe" your scenario could play out.  However, if our country is the same or worse off financially, no matter how generous the "next generation" wants to be, if their states are bankrupt, what are they going to use to be so generous with?  Do you think "my" generation enjoys the predicament our country is in financially and want to be less generous with the elderly or people who need help?  All the good will in the world isn't going to do any good unless we have the financial funds to go with it.  This problem is not about one generation being better than another, imo.  It's about our leaders not making the right decisions to protect the financial interests of our country.

Medigal

Bren:  On my goodness!  Don't be using the term "Man UP" when it comes to Palin or she may think she has to go shoot more fish!  I think she is trying so hard to be masculine that I am waiting for her to grow a moustache and a beard!   For the sake of the thread, I will control myself and not say my "true" feelings about SP.  Nuff said.  I know why she lost those points but this is about self-control.  "I" have it.  "She" doesn't, imo. 

crazy4carrots

Bren:  I want my female politicians to be smart, well-educated and knowledgeable about both domestic and foreign affairs.  I want them to acknowledge and respect the opinions of others and to take responsibility for all their actions.  I want them to be uniters, instead of dividers.  Simple, really!

GG27

I always have to laugh at people who say that "baby boomers" are going to be a drain on society.  Boomers are statisically the wealthiest, healthiest generation to date.  Just because you retire, doesn't mean you stop paying taxes.  As for being non productive, here in Canada they want boomers to retire so the younger generation can have those higher paying jobs.

So I would ask the younger generations what they would like us to do, curl up in a corner & die??

Medigal

Lindasa:  On the ball!  Why don't we just run you for President?  You seem to know what it takes or you can just give "classes" to the others who "think" they know what it takes.

Medigal

mfrog:  You can curl up in a corner, just don't do it in a Nursing Home and have to be on Medicaid!

Bren-2007

And more importantly .. don't do it in Arizona!

rosemary-b

Well the people in Arizona wanted a change. Is this what they were hoping for?

GG27

Medigal, we don't have medicaid here in Canada. 

I doubt very much about going into a home, my parents still live in their house, my 77 yo dad still gets up on the ladder to wash the windows etc, my grandparents didn't go to a nursing home, they stayed in their own home.

Here in Canada if you have plenty of income you can go into a home, but pay around $4-5,000 per month for the privelege, it's only if you're low income that you get it for a lower cost.  At 4-5000 per month, I would rather stay in my home & pay someone to come & help out, which is available.

otter

Medigal, please -- stop with the CAPS (Re: "YOU must have no idea what it's like for some of those old people to have to end their lives the way they do in the nursing homes.  It's NOT always because the homes are unfit.  They can only do so much for someone who is physically and mentally deteriorating and they usually don't have the funds to hire enough staff to keep  them as clean as they should be.  Before you smirk at my post, why don't you go visit a few nursing homes and then tell me YOU would want to end up like this in your last days.")

Actually, you have no idea what my own family situation is.  I was not "smirking" at your post.  I was asking a question in all seriousness, because, in fact, I have "visited a few nursing homes." 

I really shouldn't have to offer credentials for entering into a discussion about heath care and housing for the elderly, and about end-of-life decisions; but, since you posed the challenge, here are my credentials:

1) My father-in-law died almost 7 years ago while in a nursing home.  He had been there for more than a year because his Alzheimer's Disease had progressed to the point that he could no longer be cared for at home. Even though we live hundreds of miles away, I visited him many times while he was there. 

2) My own father is presently in a nursing home, because he, too, has Alzheimer's Disease.  He is completely incontinent; and he cannot walk by himself, bathe himself, dress himself, carry on a conversation, or recognize family members.  He can feed himself, but he is on a pureed diet because he has trouble swallowing sometimes, and the medical staff is afraid he will aspirate his food. Yet, he is comfortable, the staff provides him with excellent care, and he still enjoys pudding, ice cream, and other treats.  He still smiles, and he still has happy days.  He had no problem at all figuring out how to open his Christmas gifts during the holidays.  He even "saved" the wrapping paper, as my mom had always insisted we do.

3) My mom has a heart condition that will eventually prove fatal, unless her Stage IV kidney failure kills her first. She is still living at home, by herself.  That's partly because she wants to stay there, but also, I suspect, because she is afraid she could not afford to live anywhere else right now.  My mom and dad have good health insurance coverage (secondary to Medicare), but mom is paying out-of-pocket for 100% of my dad's nursing home expenses because they don't have a long-term care policy. We don't know how long the money will last.  She has already filed the papers on dad's behalf to enroll him on their state's version of Medicaid (indigent care) when the money runs out.

4) Oh, and this doesn't really count yet, but my mother-in-law has been in and out of assisted living facilities over the past few years.  Right now she is living "independently" in a retirement center, but it won't be many more years (or months?) before she'll need more care and will have to move.  Fortunately, she does have a long-term care policy, as well as a good healthcare plan.

So, I'm wondering -- what is it about nursing homes, the elderly, and end-of-life care that I need to learn, before I am allowed to ask questions?

otter

BarbaraA

WildRocky did a post on the deletees thread. Sigh.

Bren-2007

Ah geez .. that makes me sad.  I wish Rocky wouldn't leave.  But I understand .. I just hate it though.

Bren

otter

Sheesh.  It's not hard to imagine how Rocky feels, though.  It's one thing to try to be tough-skinned (which I am not very good at). It's a whole 'nother thing to feel threatened.  As much as I like hanging around the BCO neighborhood, sometimes I wonder if it isn't time to move on.

I would, someday, like to have a discussion on the boards about end-of-life care, living wills, DNR/DNI orders, etc.  Members of my family are having a very sad and hurtful disagreement about those issues, at the time when we really ought to be banding together to help one another.  But that's not how it works, sometimes, even when people think they've worked things out ahead of time because they've signed some papers.

otter

Bren-2007

Otter .. there used to be a thread about end of life issues on the Palliative forum. 

Bren

Medigal

Otter:  I apologize for the caps.  It's a bad habit I have to accentuate words I want to stand out.  I had no knowledge of all your experience in nursing homes with relatives from the earlier post.  You do sound like you know first-hand what it's like and could teach us a lot we don't know.  I do not remember posting you couldn't ask questions.  I just didn't think you were responding due to personal experience.  I still stand by my post about how I feel concerning this issue. I, too, can speak from personal experience with relatives.  I hope we can be a peace about this issue.

otter

Bren, I'm pretty sure there still is.  But, the Palliative forum is sort of special, you know, ...  I think of it as sacred ground, even more private than the Stage IV forum -- reserved for women (and men) who are dealing personally with those issues.

So, I am hesitant to bounce on over there to initiate or join a discussion that, at least at present, is still hypothetical for me and my family.  What we're disagreeing about sounds pretty basic -- When does someone's condition become "terminal", when the person has an incurable illness like Alzheimer's that can go on and on before they actually die? There's a question that's sort of related:  Who really knows what would be acceptable "quality of life" to another person?  (My sibling says my dad's QOL sucks, because he doesn't recognize family members anymore.  I say I agree that's sad, but it doesn't seem to bother dad nearly as much as it bothers those family members -- etc.)

Thanks, though.  I'm still trying to work it out.

otter

[Edited to add:  Medigal, absolutely -- if we can't be at peace on such issues among ourselves here, where would that be possible?  I apologize for being so defensive.  Yes, the issue of elder care (or whatever it's called) is very real to me, and very raw.  As you might infer from what I've said to Bren above, my family is having serious problems trying to decide what my dad would want, versus what my individual family members would want if they were in dad's situation.  Those are not necessarily the same, obviously.  Both my parents have living wills and have signed DNR/DNI orders, but they're the template-type documents.  We've already discovered in my dad's case that we really don't know, and can't agree on, what those "standard" statements mean.  And, although I think I know what my dad would want because I heard him state certain things when he was still lucid, my mom and sibling deny that he ever said what I am recalling.  Plus, the nursing director and the palliative care nurse at dad's nursing home clearly do not see eye-to-eye on those very same issues.  It's a real mess...  Thanks, though -- I'm sure we all have subplots like that, running through our lives.]

molly52

Medigal - I left out ONE VIP word.  I was trying to say the next generation may NOT be generous to the elderly.

I have edited my original post now - so any future readers will read what I meant to say.  Sorry.

Otter, my dad also had alzheimers.  And there was family disagreement, which was brutal.  For the last several years, he didn't know my name, but knew I was someone nice.  I visited regularly.  It was about him.  Seeing how he was doing, and giving him special treats - like a good cup of coffee.  Staff treat their clients better, if they know family turns up often.  

Medigal

molly52:  Now that makes more sense to me, Molly.  However, it doesn't bother me but posting in caps seems to bother another poster and you wrote 3 words in caps.  Maybe it's just "my" posting in caps she doesn't like.  Some people see this as screaming at them when it's done on the internet but I only do it for the same reason you did.  To draw attention to some words I want to stand out.  I guess using "   "  marks are quieter.  I am just kidding you about doing it.  I could care less how one posts as long as they are being nice to each other.

Your talking about your dad reminded me of my mom in her last days.  I would go vigilently to the nursing home to visit her and bring her stuff several times a week and certain days she knew who I was and then the next visit I got yelled at for not visiting her in months!!  Telling her I was just there two days earlier did no good so I just hugged her and ignored the comment.  Alzheimers can be the most devastating thing to happen to someone imo.  In many times it is more devastating for their loved ones who have to deal with them not knowing them any longer.  Yet they still don't know what triggers it off.  Who would have thought a man like Ronald Reagan would have gotten it.  He was so active mentally and physically.  I felt so sorry for Nancy when I read about it.  You are also so right about the staff treating patients better if they know a family member might turn up any day!  That is the key for better treatment!

kadeeb

BinVa,

I really hate to post this but your post about moles stir'd a memory about someone who once said to PI$$ on the mole run.  I can't testify about the results but think about the Utube videos . 

Alpal

Kadeeb - my bro in law did that in ground hog holes, and they left and never returned!

kadeeb

blue - about your gaining weight, great news!  I just hope you have better luck controlling  it than I do. 10 pounds plus 10 more. well the more the merrier. good luck ! we're all wishing you well!

kadeeb

Otter,

IMO you can ask anything you want. I'm not sure what the criteria is for asking about assisted  living and beyond, but I am sure you have met the requirements.  

kadeeb

Otter,

I still have both my parents, they are 91  and in good health and, as good as could be expected, mental health. I thank all the powers that be, every day for that blessing. I do no know what you deal with. I cannot unless I've walked your mile. I love them and will be there, as will you. Love to you and best wishes for their and your future. When they're gone you're an orphan in some respects and I can't think that will be better than now, but I do not know. 

Anonymous

Otter, I just wanted to say that I'm so sorry for all that you are going through.  These decisions are not easy. 

BarbaraA

Otter, my father just passed in October and I was blessed that he was fine until his final stroke then he passed quickly. His mother, on the other hand, lingered for over 15 years (she died at age 99) and was so gone from Alzheimers that for the last 14 years, she didn't even know her son and certainly not me. It is so very hard watching a parent die.

Maya2

My father died at 65 after several bouts of cancer. It was horrible. There was no health insurance (he was cut off after his first illness), only VA ,and I wouldn't wish that care on anybody. And there was no life insurance. My mother was left destitute and we tried to help as best we could. He's been gone 20 years and I still remember watching him fade away, looking like someone from a concentration camp. He wasn't allowed death with dignity. My dad fought in two wars for the US and he was forgotten by his country when he was sick (probably caused from being in Hiroshima after we dropped the bombs there.) We've simply got to do better by all our citizens.

Bren-2007

Good morning Maya .. I am sorry to hear how your dad suffered before he died.  My dad died almost two years ago of esophageal cancer.  I believe he starved to death before the cancer took him.  I still miss him so much.

Kadeeb .. I heard that works on keeping deer out of the garden too.  Maybe I can get Tim to pee on the moles, as I don't want my neighbors to see me doing that! Ha!

Barbara .. hugs, I'm so sorry you lost your dad recently. 

Otter .. You have so much on your plate right now .. sending you lots of hugs.

Hope everyone has a good day today,

Bren