I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

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  • pickle
    pickle Member Posts: 1,409
    edited May 2011

    Junie: Well said and hugsss back at you!

  • BarbaraA
    BarbaraA Member Posts: 7,378
    edited May 2011

    I did listen to Brennan and he sounded like a campaign manager. I am not alone in that opinion.

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2011/05/osama-bin-laden-dead.html

  • Enjoyful
    Enjoyful Member Posts: 3,591
    edited May 2011

    Yeah, Barbara, he sorta did sound like a campaign manager. 

    Here are the things I believe to be true, gushy praise aside - President Obama made the decision to use surgical tactics rather than dropping bombs or sending drones.  President Obama gave the order to proceed.  President Obama observed as the operation unfolded.  President Obama ordered positive identification.

    Did he think of all of these things on his own?  I don't know, but my guess is he had good advice and the judgment to recognize it as such.

    To put it in language the Bush fans can understand, he was the Decider.   It was a great plan approved by our President, based on excellent data gathered and analyzed by our intelligence community, and executed with near perfection by our military.  Can we all agree on that, at least?

  • BarbaraA
    BarbaraA Member Posts: 7,378
    edited May 2011

    E, I completely agree. He decided and he led. The decision to NOT use air strikes was great. That way there would be no doubt (except to the chronic doubters) that we killed him. I also wish we had some kind of video evidence of him hiding behind his wife. Oh, would that go a long way in the Arab world. Just really had a hard time with the rah rah Brennan press conference. It was not appropriate, IMHO. Obama's presser was totally appropriate, however.

    ***not being a Bush fan, I still agree that he decided***

  • rosemary-b
    rosemary-b Member Posts: 2,006
    edited May 2011

    Those who have been quick to blame Obama should be quick to praise him. He made the decisions. He is the Commander in Chief. Good job Seal Team 6 and good job President Obama.

  • AnneW
    AnneW Member Posts: 4,050
    edited May 2011

    Great accounting of the events as they unfolded: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42859420/ns/world_news-death_of_bin_laden/

    Yes, Obama made the ultimate decision.

    Anyone see him on Oprah yesterday? (taped the week before.) He has enough humility to have regrets about what he didn't do but should have done during the past two + years in office. How refreshing.

    And to all my Canadian friends--you guys actually had an election and aren't spewing vitriol about the winner? You're talking rationally about a balanced government? What's the matter with you?? Can't we teach you anything?Wink

  • crazy4carrots
    crazy4carrots Member Posts: 5,324
    edited May 2011

    Anne, sweetie, you know we Canucks are just too polite to spew our vitriol about the election here!  In the meantime, the air in my house is tinged with blue....

    Pickle, being from a different part of the country, is tickled pink with the outcome.  And I'm too polite to tell her she's nuts, and she'll be sorry etc. etc.Innocent 

  • molly52
    molly52 Member Posts: 389
    edited May 2011

    Pickle, congratulations - your favoured candidate won a good majority last night.  He ran a tight campaign and it paid off.

    The next few years, it should be fun in parliment with Jack Layton as official opposition.

  • lassie11
    lassie11 Member Posts: 1,500
    edited May 2011

    Yes- what Linda said. I was disappointed with the overall results of the election here and delighted with the remarkable rise of the NDP. There will be interesting days ahead. I hope the PM will keep his promise of being a PM for all Canadians.

  • duckyb1
    duckyb1 Member Posts: 13,369
    edited May 2011

    As I said before ....................."job well done".....................

  • Medigal
    Medigal Member Posts: 1,412
    edited May 2011

    Good Morning Ladies.  I see we are still on the Bin Laden drama.  I would like to add something due to a post Blue made.  I and I think many people who voted for Obama have been very disappointed in the fact that he was not , imo, being a "leader" earlier.  We were waiting patiently for him to step up to the plank and make that important leap.  This week he "DID"!  And we are very delighted and proud of him for doing so.  A good leader can get great advice from others but it is up to them to make that important decision as to which advice to take.  That is what makes a good leader in my book.  He isn't afraid to make those life changing decisions and accept the consequences for them. Pres. Obama really became a "President" this week and personally, I am very proud of him and glad to have him as the leader of our country.  I hope he continues on this track and help resolve the other many problems our country has. 

    I also would like to state that as much as Bin Laden deserved his death, I was one of those who felt sick to my stomach that people could rejoice.  It seemed more a time for tears to think that humanity could bring forth someone so evil who could take so many innocent lives.  His death was necessary but do we really want to sink to the level of the person who was killed?  I think it was a time to give thanks that he is truly gone and prayers that we can protect ourselves from those who take his place and decide to punish us in even worse ways.  This is not paranoia.  This is just facing the reality of the consequences of this much needed action.  

  • Enjoyful
    Enjoyful Member Posts: 3,591
    edited May 2011

    Absolutely, Medipal!  And I understand your perspective on the celebrations.  I was 80% appalled at the White House celebrations shown on TV, yet 20% of me wanted to join them.  I'm embarrassed about that 20%.

    E

  • Alpal
    Alpal Member Posts: 1,785
    edited May 2011

    Well said, Medigal. I think one of the most reassuring things was that if the mission had not been successful, it would have been absolute political suicide for Obama. In spite of that chance, he chose to do the right thing for our country.

  • crazy4carrots
    crazy4carrots Member Posts: 5,324
    edited May 2011

    About those "celebrations" at the news of bin Laden's death -- didn't they really only take place in the cities where lives were lost on 9/11?  I can honestly say that I was repulsed by those demonstrations, but I didn't live in either New York or Washington on 9/11 and, on reflection, I would think those folks might have a different reaction to hearing of the death of someone who was responsible for killing their own "townsfolk".

  • Enjoyful
    Enjoyful Member Posts: 3,591
    edited May 2011

    Good point, Lindasa.  I didn't think of that perspective. 

  • BarbaraA
    BarbaraA Member Posts: 7,378
    edited May 2011

    Good point Linda. I am like E in that I wanted to join in but was ashamed of the demonstrations also. I used to live in DC as well as western PA so that may be a factor for me.

  • pickle
    pickle Member Posts: 1,409
    edited May 2011

    Linda I may be nuts but this nut is thrilled with a majority that has such a strong opposition. The Tories cannot ignore the fact that the NDP have an unprecedented foothold in the House of Commons and their voice, representing thousands of Canadians, cannot be ignored. I figured the Libs and Bloc would lose some seats but they really got pumelled. Iggy and Duceppe couldn't even retain their own seats. An interesting day.

  • crazy4carrots
    crazy4carrots Member Posts: 5,324
    edited May 2011

    Aw, Pickle -- I confess that I have a visceral dislike and distrust of Harper (which began when he was head of the NCC).  His Reform/Alliance roots, which are still extremely strong, make me fearful of what he will do with a majority.  I can only hope that there are still enough Red Tories in the caucus who will vote their conscience, especially on the social issues. 

    I was truly disgusted by a few things Harper's campaign team did, especially the really nasty attack ads before and during the election.  Other issues which can very likely be attributed to his team were the slashing of tires on cars in the driveways of persons who had Liberal signs on their lawns in St. Paul's (this happened last election too), and the phone calls on the weekend and yesterday all over the country telling people their voting sites had been moved. This particular tactic is so similar to tactics used south of the border and, we must remember, Harper imported a certain party's campaign experts in all three of his elections.

    So.....I'm not a happy camper today, but I continue to hope that things work out well for all of us!

    Fortunately, he does not have an overwhelming majority! 

  • pickle
    pickle Member Posts: 1,409
    edited May 2011

    Linda, I am glad he doesn't have an overwhelming majority but I am happy that it is a majority. As far as the tire slashing etc..."very likely attributed" ....not even going to go there! I am not a conspiratist...lol. Innocent

    I hope things work out well too.

  • crazy4carrots
    crazy4carrots Member Posts: 5,324
    edited May 2011

    Pickle -- No conspiracy about the tire slashing -- it really happened, in this election and the last one.  I used to live in that riding and personally know Dr. Bennett (Lib candidate and elected both times in spite of!) Talk about intimidation tactics! 

    No conspiracy theory about the phone calls either, unfortunately.  I really hate that this uncivilized behaviour has infested our politics. We hear about it in other countries and think we're safe from it.  We're not!  It's the sort of thing that makes less committed folk throw up their hands and say to themselves "Why vote at all?"

  • pickle
    pickle Member Posts: 1,409
    edited May 2011

    Linda, I'm not denying that tires were slashed and the phone calls were made but I am saying that it's a stretch to blame Harper's team directly. Even Bob Rae, who had his tire slashed, was quick to deny any involvement from Harper's team. A liberal campaigner was fired for stealing Green Party flyers from mailboxes which is kind of funny considering they weren't even a threat in the campaign. When people riot and vandalize property in cities after a Stanley cup win...should we blame the players? There are always going to people that seize any opportunity to do something dispicable.   I do agree with you that the nastiness of politics is infiltrating our country and it really is distasteful and disgusting.

  • duckyb1
    duckyb1 Member Posts: 13,369
    edited May 2011

    Sorry ladies, and let me say this first........I am a church going, christian woman who respects life more then anything else on earth...............I till today 10 years later remember where I was, what I was doing, and how I was affected by 9/11.........At the time I was taking care of my daughter's 2 children at the time 2 1/2, and 1 year old........My daughter called me on the phone, and said "Mom did you hear an airplane crashed into the Twin Towers..........I said "oh heavens, I remember when a plane crashed into the Empire State Building years ago (I'm 76), so I know it happened before"............She said, "turn on the TV you can see it, God Mom the building is burning".................Well I did turn on the TV, and was watching, when I saw the 2nd plane hit the other Tower..................I was glued to the TV for days .............I cried more times for the victims, the  firefighters, the policemen, and the construction workers who had the job of cleaning up the mess.......................

    My son at the time owned his own company, and worked most of his jobs in NYC, although he was from Pa.........He did Trade Shows........The day this happened he was suppose to meet with a client in the Twin Towers..........the client got stuck in traffic, so my son said ";how about if we meet in about 1 hour, that should give you the time you need to get here.............My son left the North tower, and within 20 minutes the plane hit.............................Imagine my state of mind when I knew he was there....................He called to say "Mom , I'm ok, my appt. was 9:30, but the client was late, so we made it later, I'm ok, Mom, and I'm on my way home to Pa.  He got out before they closed NYC down to all acess out.

    2days later he went back to NY to help with the clean-up, he felt he owed it to NY since NY had been so good to him with his employment, and his company.......Because he was there for several days right after it happened while smoke, and debris were still dangerous he developed a "lung disease), and is under medical treatment till today for what he inhaled.......

    So that being said......does anyone really think I care about who celebrated OBL's death regardless of how it happened.......I salute Obama, the Seals, and everyone else who took part in the  death of this devil.....I hope he rots in hell

    Finally has anyone thought...... maybe.........the people who were celebrating were doing this  because of how this event affected them throughout their lifetime..........It was D.C............it was NYC where most of the celebrating was going on..............Do any of you know who was in that crowd, how this 9/11 event touched them, possibly a son, or daughter who lost their mother or father, a young college student who possibly lost and older brother, or sister.  They were caught up in the moment of a 10 long year wait.  Maybe it was just a way to say "U.S.A. well done.....................I don't see how anyone could  condem the actions of Amercians who were so thrilled to see this monster get his final justice, regardless of how they showed their joy...........

    I watched the other night as they showed on TV the number of people who died and were injured at the hands of this freak, here in Amercia, and around the World...........Thousands, so yes we celebrate the end of OBL, whether we did it in the quiet of our homes, or out on the street shouting U.S.A...................I'm from near Philla, in Pa., and at the Phillies game thousands cheered at the news..................To me that's saying yes, at last, gone at last...........

    We all have the right to our opinion, and this is mine, and I guess for the ones who don't like my post...........we can agree to disagree, and still be friends........love you all

  • crazy4carrots
    crazy4carrots Member Posts: 5,324
    edited May 2011

    Ducky, thanks for sharing your very personal experience with us.

  • Wabbit
    Wabbit Member Posts: 1,592
    edited May 2011

    Osama was quite proud of his part in the events of 9-11 ... there was no doubt at all he was guilty.

    Yet for 10 years he has been out there living freely and getting away without being punished for those horrific acts.  The victims of his attack have had to live with that disgusting fact.  I can't blame anybody for celebrating that he had finally been brought to justice.

    Nor can I work up any bad feelings about the way his life ended ... and I am glad that they did not capture him alive.  We did not need the freak show or the expense of a trial for a man so obviously guilty.  He got the same kind of 'justice' he believed in as far as I'm concerned.  

    There go any pacifist credentials I might have had ... 

    As for the 'leadership' thing.  Please note that President Obama was not out talking about all this before it happened.  He never announced "I'm going to get him" at all  ... he just set the wheels in motion to get it done.   It is a mistake to assume that just because we are not seeing or hearing about it that things are not going on all the time.  Many make lots of noise in front of the camera about what they are doing or going to do and most of it never happens.  Others work rationally and quietly and with discipline behind the scenes to make things happen.  I have always hoped and believed that Obama is the later type ... and this operation confirms to me that this is the way to get things done right.     

    I do wish we could shift the focus a bit away from 'what they might do to us' as revenge into a bit more of 'they should now be fearful of what we are capable of doing to them'.  I want the terrorists to panic at the mere sound of a helicopter in the night. 

    Edited to say ... On the 'leadership' thing ... Cindy and I were typing at the same time.  Glad to see somebody agrees with me :)

  • duckyb1
    duckyb1 Member Posts: 13,369
    edited May 2011

    Wow, I thought I was going to get blasted for my opinion.............So glad there are others who see this in a different light..........As I said for the ones who thought what the  "young people" did was disgusting, appaling, morbid........and whatever other phrases were used.......I feel what OBL did far out weighs what those few people did in D.C., and NYC........I have 18 grandchildren, and at least 9 of them knew what was happening, the other 9, just kept asking questions...The 2 I watched especially the 2/1/2 year old kept saying...........Nannie why did that airplane fly into that building".............at least 100 times................He is today 12 1/2, and has read many times why what happened that day happened............I'm glad he doesn't remember............

    How do you answer a 2 1/2 yrs.  old when he says "Nannie could that happen to us".  Enougy said.

  • BarbaraA
    BarbaraA Member Posts: 7,378
    edited May 2011

    Sorry, I just gotta say it: GO LIGHTNING!!

  • River_Rat
    River_Rat Member Posts: 1,724
    edited April 2012

    Cindy, I agree with you about Brennan's answers at the press conference.  

    What some may have forgotten is that he's an old CIA man and I think he was pretty darned proud of the interaction between the CIA, the Seals and the President and the success of the mission. His answers showed that and might have been a bit much for those who don't want Obama to get any of the credit.  I read the link that somebody posted earlier (guy really upset about the Brennan presser) and it seemed that he is one that nothing Obama could do would please him.

    I'm glad that President Obama is a quiet, get things done kind of guy.  It's a nice change.

    I wouldn't dance in the streets over Bin Laden's death, but I don't begrudge those that were impacted by the bastard doing so.  There were celebrations in Dearborn by the Muslim community.  I certainly understand their joy.  Here's the link in case you want to read about the Muslim response in the Detroit area:

    http://www.freep.com/article/20110502/NEWS05/305020002/Detroit-area-Arab-Americans-Muslims-happy-about-bin-Laden-s-death-comforted-see-justice-being-served-?odyssey=mod|mostcom 

  • Medigal
    Medigal Member Posts: 1,412
    edited May 2011

    Ducky:  Everyone has the right to deal with someone's death in whatever way they need to.  However, I think when they allow people to watch the execution of someone who may have murdered a loved one, these people don't get up and dance and act joyful.  They seem to be at peace that the person who murdered their loved one has now paid with his/her life but "celebration" doesn't seem to come into the equation because the "hurt" of the horrible act can stay with one forever.  Just because Bin  Laden is dead cannot, imo, erase the pain the people who lost loved ones on 9/11 will have in their hearts forever.  However, if "celebrating" the death can help erase this pain then I say do what it takes to heal.  We are all individuals and react differently to things that happen in our lives.

    On a somewhat different topic, we just watched the news and reporters seem to be harping on the fact that Bin Laden was "unarmed" and shot.  Do you have to be braindead to be a reporter?  I cannot believe they don't have the sense to know how our enemies can use such things against us.  It makes it sound like it was a predetermined assasination even if Bin Laden was willing to give up.  Whether it was or wasn't is not the important issue here and they should be told such questions are not allowed, imo.  It just adds fuel to an already brewing fire.  There are certain things our country stands for when it comes to the rights of even killers.   If they had to break the rules to destroy this man, I feel it should not be given national publicity that he "may" have been assasinated.  Sometimes I think these question periods with reporters can do more harm than good.

  • River_Rat
    River_Rat Member Posts: 1,724
    edited May 2011

    Cindy,

    It is very frustrating the things that do get media attention and the things that don't.  For instance, a bunch of idiots think there's sharia law in Dearborn, say it and the media runs with that story, doesn't matter that it's not true.  Then there's this which paints a truer picture of the Arab community here and most of the media, *crickets*, somehow this story doesn't merit their attention.  Makes you wonder doesn't it? 

  • Wabbit
    Wabbit Member Posts: 1,592
    edited May 2011

    Just for the record ... if we had gone in and bombed that entire neighborhood and killed a lot of innocent people in the process of getting Osama I would have felt very differently about any 'celebrations'.

    I'm proud that we did it the way we did and that nobody other than Osama and his people were hurt in the process.  That's enough for me.

    Edited to remove a 'spanking' for the media.  Looks like the authorities have been putting out conflicting reports on this one.         

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