I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

208sandy

Enjoyful - tomorrow's good.

Sandy

Anonymous

It's so much EASIER to get an abortion (on the taxpayer's dime) than it is to take a little white pill each morning (or to keep your legs together). Dependence...entitlements...non self relience...LIBERAL...let the government do it for you. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

Kindergarten

Well said, Laura!!!!!!!!

Kindergarten

Dear White Rabbit: Abortions are a needed service?????? Oh, My God!!!!!!!!!!

Enjoyful

Oh, if only teenagers had forethought and planning abilities.  I suppose most of us have dealt with teenagers in the past?  And yes, those silly raped women could have held their legs together if only they were strong enough to do so.  And those women who chose to go the condom route because they didn't want to use hormone-based birth control, and the condom failed?  Sucks to be you, I guess.  Victims of incest?  Sorry, I don't want to hear about that.

I tell you what, how about we outlaw abortion and hand those unwanted babies off to the fathers for them to raise?  And let them try to collect child support from the mothers?   And what do you do when those babies are starved and abused?

Yes, Kathy, it's a needed service.  I know it's not permitted under your religion and/or personal code of morals, but it IS legal, and is needed.  I personally could not have an abortion but we have to face realities.  If you want to ban abortion, you also need to plan for the unwanted children, and how much will THAT cost in human lives, suffering children, and government funds?  

Kindergarten

Dear Enjoyful, I appreciate your feedback, but in this day and age, with all the different medications that you can take, even the day or to a week after unwanted sex,(rape, incest, etc.) to take care of these matters, not great, but better than waiting until way into the first trimester or longer. I knew too many women that used abortion as birth control, so sad and so wrong!!!  It has gotten way out of hand. If we ban abortion, except for emergency cases, maybe, just maybe people will start taking responsibility for their actions!!!!

Enjoyful

I see your point, Kathy.  As a victim of molestation myself I can tell you it's not a simple thing to seek help.  I told NOBODY, mostly because I was afraid I'd be blamed or that it was my fault somehow.  I don't think that's changed for today's girls.  Had I been impregnated, I wouldn't have had a clue where to go or who to ask for help, or even what a trimester was. 

I'm sure there are people who use abortion as birth control, just as I'm sure there are people who abuse TANF and SS disability.  You can't do away with all of it because a few abuse it.  

bluedahlia

Laura & Kindergarten, maybe PP is needed after all.  That's mostly what they do, hand out the little white pills, if I'm reading it right.  The percentage of handing out the little white pills vs. abortion is much greater.  Besides, they provide other services that save lives.  I can't believe some would deny the ones that can't afford it that. Just like healthcare....No one gives a crap, until, they themselves need it.

There go those complex logical thoughts again.

bluedahlia

I don't believe you are!

Wabbit

Tax money does NOT fund abortions.  Although it appears that you refuse to acknowledge that fact no matter how many times it is pointed out. 

I have never had an abortion nor have I known anybody personally who has.  However, it is an invasive medical procedure and absolutely cannot be 'easier' on somebody than taking a pill and thus the 'lazy' way out.  Think about it for a minute.

There were many unplanned pregnancies among my friends in my younger days.  Shotgun weddings and education ending early was the norm.   You will all be happy to hear that with the help of PP there was not a single unplanned pregnancy among my daughter's large group of friends when they were in high school or college or beyond as young adults.  That is why I support them wholeheartedly.

bluedahlia

This is interesting!

"Even if you accept any of the four versions of the Ten Commandments that Moses offered up as law, is there harm in asking, as Grayling does in the final section The Good, "Shall we ask, by what commandments shall we live? Or might we better ask, each of ourselves: What kind of person should I be? The first question assumes that there is one right answer. The second assumes that there are many right answers." And yes, Grayling does come up with his own Ten Commandments, not that he would call them such. Would any person of faith object to them?

"Love well, seek the good in all things, harm no others, think for yourself, take responsibility, respect nature, do your utmost, be informed, be kind, be courageous: at least, sincerely try."

Enjoyful

Would any human, regardless of faith, object to that quote?  I may stitch that into a pillow, Blue!  :-)

Wabbit

I'm just curious ... from 'where' do some of you 'know all those women who use abortion as birth control'?

I've gotten to the age of 60 and I have never met a single woman who does that.  Do you really 'know' these people?  Or just read about how somebody else says they exist?

Enjoyful

I don't know of anyone either.  I've heard the stories, though they're always third-hand.  Maybe it's an urban myth?

bluedahlia

Me either, and it's legal here.  Sometimes I feel like my intelligence is being insulted!

Wabbit

And it's always the people who are anti-abortion who 'know' them.  Doesn't make sense that they would be hanging out in their social and religious circles or confide in them does it?  Nor does it make sense that many would elect a painful, invasive medical procedure over a pill or any of the other birth control devices available.   I vote urban myth.

Alpal

In addition to being curious about how one would know all these people, I want to know where these people are getting abortions on the "taxpayer's dime". I bet all your friends who are getting abortions would like that info, too. 

I only know one person who I'm sure had an abortion. She was a 12 year old victim of repeated incest. How careless of her not to have arranged for the morning after pill. How often can you take those things? 7 mornings a week?

Moderators

Hey Members, 

There are lots of comments on this thread that can be taken as a personal attack on others who think, believe and vote differently, or who have had experiences that others have not shared. I think that this is a rather classic example of agreeing to disagree. We suggest a pause before posting. 

Thank you for your consideration, 

Melissa and the BCO Mods 

bluedahlia

Where's the non-subjective link with regards to PP?  That IS what we're discussing.

rosemary-b

Last night we went to dinner at my daughter's house for dinner. Two of my sons and my other daughter were there. There were also 6 grandchildren present. We had ribs that my son grilled, pasta salad, homemade mac and cheese, hard rolls salad, strawberry rhubarb pie and cookies.

On another note, I still believe ideologicval issues need to be handled by the regular legislative process. It is a mark of integrity to do so. And thank you for posting the article saying liberals have more gray matter. It made my day to recieve such a compliment to my intelligence. 

crazy4carrots

Blue, thanks for the link to The Good Book.  The message bears repeating:

"Love well, seek the good in all things, harm no others, think for yourself, take responsibility, respect nature, do your utmost, be informed, be kind, be courageous: at least, sincerely try."

I think that when it comes to religious beliefs or topics of a sexual nature, many people find it impossible to think objectively.  Frankly, I don't think that either religion or the abortion issue belongs on this thread -- minds are already made up so what's the point?

But, dear Blue, I defer to you.

River_Rat

Ok, this is a change of subject so it can be ignored if you want to continue the current conversation without interruption.  Laura earlier posted something about the numbers employed by government and I thought that was something that deserved a closer look.

For those that like a quick summary:

"According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, government accounts for about 8% of jobs in the United States. Here's the breakdown using numbers easily accessible on the BLS website (all numbers from 2006 or 2007): 

1,774,000 Federal government civilian employees, excluding Post Office 
615,000 Post Office 
1,172,913 Military enlisted 
230,577 Military Officers 
2,424,000 State government (excluding education and hospitals) 
5,594,000 Local government (excluding education and hospitals)
That's a total of 11,810,490 government jobs.
The total number of jobs in the U.S. in 2006 was 150,600,000, so government employment makes up 7.84% of all jobs.
In 2007, the U.S. population (according to the Census Bureau) was 301,621,157, so about 4% of Americans are employed by the government.

According to a study by Paul C. Light, a government professor at New York University, the Federal Government also employed 14.6 million contractors in 2006. This was an increase of 2.5 million since 2002, and the study attributes the increase directly to contractors hired as part of the war on terror. (reported in the Washington Post)

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percentage_of_americans_are_government_employed 

For those that like a more in depth look at the numbers -

State and Local Government Employment stats:

http://www.bls.gov/oco/cg/cgs042.htm 

Federal Government Employment stats:

http://www.bls.gov/oco/cg/cgs041.htm  

I'm pretty comfortable with the things government is doing for me. 

bluedahlia

I agree Linda!  Those are touchy subjects, but are being intertwined with politics so much lately.  The quote you quoted does bear repeating though!

Anonymous

My daughter attended a nice suburban high school.  There is a Planned Parenthood location conveniently across the street.  Every year, the school has enough pregnant girls and new mothers among their students to allot their own class to them. 

Even with that kind of institutional support in place, a few of the girls I had known since they were younger had several abortions before graduating.  

Through my own community involvement, I knew many girls from that school, not just those who were close friends with my daughter, and girls would confide that they were upset about their friends putting themselves into that situation.  These were not to save the life of the mother, or the result of rape or incest.  They were a matter of convenience to avoid having to tell parents about the pregnancies.

Wabbit

Thanks for finding the stats River Rat!  Always helps to have the facts. 

I'm jealous of rosemary ... yummy dinner and somebody else cooked it too   Save me some of that homemade macaroni and cheese next time OK.

Wabbit

PatMom ... WOW ... what kind of effort is being made to stop the epidemic of unplanned teenage pregnancies?  Sounds like the teen culture there is out of control. 

Edited to add:  I certainly admire those who have their babies and raise them properly.  In this day and age I do not understand why all these unplanned pregnancies continue to happen.  We have many many effective methods of birth control available to prevent that.  Do these teens not know that?   

rosemary-b

Rabbit

I will certainly save you some.

RiverRat

Thank you for the stats. Sometimes rhetoric gets overblown in the heat of the moment but the truth is still and will always be the truth.

bluedahlia

But are your tax dollars paying for those abortions?  That is the debate going on in congress right now.

River_Rat

Blue, no they're not but some people believe that any organization that is receiving federal funds and spends any monies on abortion are spending the federal money on abortion and there is no way that anyone can convince them otherwise.  it is interesting that the Title 10 monies don't just go to Planned Parenthood but that's the one that draws the heat.

bluedahlia

We had home-made veggie pizza last night and I have romano beans in the slow cooker right now.