I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

pupmom

Hope you are better soon Sunny! I had a miserable cold this winter that seemed to last forever. Don't think it was the flu as I had no body aches.

Chickadee

They aren't conservatives at all.....they are an embarrassment to the few conservatives wh exist ....they are ideological reactionaries.





The popular depiction for the word Reactionary gives the definition - an extreme conservative; an opponent of progress or liberalism. A more in-depth amplification is once again found in Wikipedia. “Reactionary (or reactionist) is a political epithet typically applied to extreme ideological conservatism, especially that which wishes to return to a real or imagined old order of things, and which is willing to use coercive means to do so. The term is primarily used as a term of opprobrium (groups rarely identify themselves as reactionary), meant to assert the idea that the opposition is based in merely reflexive politics rather than responsive and informed views. More specifically, the term "reactionary" is frequently used to refer to those who want to reverse (or prevent) some form of claimed "progressive" change. (An equivalent term would be "regressivism." The term reaction is sometimes used as a general term for the program or philosophy of designated reactionaries.)

QuinnCat

United States Most Hated Country in the World

<snip>

If you have lived abroad, as so very few Americans have, the explanation for the hatred is obvious: Meddling. Relentless, prideful, uncomprehending meddling, frequently military, often with horrendous death tolls. Americans, adroitly managed by a controlled press, historically illiterate, incurious, decreasingly educated, either have never heard of the American behavior that angers others, or believe it to have been inspired by virtuous motives. Nobody else thinks so. Add to unfamiliarity with the wider world the constantly inculcated assertion that America is the greatest, most wonderful nation ever to exist, a light to the world, a shining city on a hill, and you get a dangerously delusional state. Especially now. In the past, American economic and military supremacy were such that the US didn’t have to care what others thought. The times, they are a-changing.

 

It might be wise to compare briefly the view through American and foreign eyes. Consider Iraq. To most of the world, the war on Iraq was brutal, unprovoked, and murderous. More than a few, looking at the ruins of Fallujah, thought of Guernica—of which few in the States have ever heard.

Many Americans do not believe that we destroyed Iraq for oil, empire, and the Israel lobby, as was in fact the case. No. We wanted to topple an evil dictator and dispense the precious gift of democracy. It was a question of goodness. Many apparently still believe that Iraq had something to do with the attacks on New York. Again, controlled press, poor schooling, little curiosity.

 <snip>

Nobody beyond the borders buys our song about spreading freedom and human rights.  America has supported countless sordid dictators rulling by army and torture chamber (the Saudis being a current example). We have put many dictators on their thrones, such as Pniochet (“That little wooden guy, his nose got long when he told a lie, right?”) in Chile. (“Isn’t that Texmex soup with beans in it?”) Others notice that the only country that openly and proudly tortures prisoners is…us.

Always, the underlying problem is meddling. Bin Laden’s guys didn’t attack New York because it was a slow morning and they couldn’t think of anything else to do. They were furious at US meddling in Moslem lands. You may think, and I may think, that Islam is a primitive faith not well adapted to the modern world. Fine. I may think that hornets do not have an ideal social organization. But I know better than to poke their nest.

This is why they hate us—meddling, bombing, invading, droning, telling them how to run their countries. No, George, it is not because of our freedoms.

 

Belinda44

Belinda44

Belinda44

Belinda44

RetiredLibby

Chick, you are 100% correct. And they are PROUD of it! Heck yeah, let's go back to the 1950s when men were men and women stayed home to raise the kids. And polio killed a fair number of people and maimed many more. And there were segregated schools and water fountains and bus seating and neighborhoods. And it was perfectly acceptable for Mr. to slap Mrs. around every once in a while, just to keep her in line. And to beat the crap out of the kids for mouthing off. And get hammered and get behind the wheel. And all of the other things that we left behind in the dark ages. Ugh. ETA - how are you feeling, Chickadee?




L

Chickadee

Yea I have passed through the valley of the shadow..........ok to morbid. Really awful week. My digestive system was miserable, I've lost 10 lbs. weak as a kitten. Food and drink revolting so I had to really push to drink enough. Sick of bed. Fought Mr Constipation and won a bit too easily. No mouth sores, lucky me.



Now it seems I'm finally getting some normalcy back. I had a small bowl of chocolate CoCo Puffs.....Kookoo for coco puffs! Anyway they stayed down. 7up is now passable as is juice and water though I still rue the thought of it.



I managed to fold one bag of laundry, small victory. I guess each infusion will follow a week of hell and two weeks of limited recovery before the next. Thanks for caring.

1Athena1

And care we do, Chick. Congrats on the laundry. It's a step.

208sandy

Oh Chickadee - sending hugs and hope that the next infusion won't be as bad.

QuinnCat

Chickadee - sounds like you had a really hard time.  So sorry.  Atleast one of those infusions is out of the way. xxo

Belinda44

Chickadee, so sorry to hear about your horrible week.  Like Sandy said, I hope the next infusion is more gentle.  And I hope this week you are able to eat more and hydrate more and gain some strength back.  And here is hoping that this treatment (as tough as it is) is effective and kicks the cancer to the curb!

Good vibes being sent your way.  Take care!

IllinoisLady

((((((Chicaddee )))))))))

Jackie

IllinoisLady

IllinoisLady

1Athena1

The NRAs mantra seems to be "First, DO Harm":

In Some States, Gun Rights Trump Orders of Protection

By MICHAEL LUO

The National Rifle Association and its allies are challenging states’ efforts to take guns away from domestic violence offenders who have been served with civil protection orders.

Early last year, after a series of frightening encounters with her former husband, Stephanie Holten went to court in Spokane, Wash., to obtain a temporary order for protection.

Her former husband, Corey Holten, threatened to put a gun in her mouth and pull the trigger, she wrote in her petition. He also said he would “put a cap” in her if her new boyfriend “gets near my kids.” In neat block letters she wrote, “He owns guns, I am scared.”

The judge’s order prohibited Mr. Holten from going within two blocks of his former wife’s home and imposed a number of other restrictions. What it did not require him to do was surrender his guns.

About 12 hours after he was served with the order, Mr. Holten was lying in wait when his former wife returned home from a date with their two children in tow. Armed with a small semiautomatic rifle bought several months before, he stepped out of his car and thrust the muzzle into her chest. He directed her inside the house, yelling that he was going to kill her.

“I remember thinking, ‘Cops, I need the cops,’ ” she later wrote in a statement to the police. “He’s going to kill me in my own house. I’m going to die!”

Ms. Holten, however, managed to dial 911 on her cellphone and slip it under a blanket on the couch. The dispatcher heard Ms. Holten begging for her life and quickly directed officers to the scene. As they mounted the stairs with their guns drawn, Mr. Holten surrendered. They found Ms. Holten cowering, hysterical, on the floor.

For all its rage and terror, the episode might well have been prevented. Had Mr. Holten lived in one of a handful of states, the protection order would have forced him to relinquish his firearms. But that is not the case in Washington and most of the country, in large part because of the influence of the National Rifle Association and its allies.

.....

By analyzing a number of Washington databases, The New York Times identified scores of gun-related crimes committed by people subject to recently issued civil protection orders, including murder, attempted murder and kidnapping. In at least five instances over the last decade, women were shot to death less than a month after obtaining protection orders. In at least a half-dozen other killings, the victim was not the person being protected but someone else. There were dozens of gun-related assaults like the one Ms. Holten endured.

The analysis — which crosschecked protective orders against arrest and conviction data, along with fatality lists compiled by the Washington State Coalition Against Domestic Violence — represents at best a partial accounting of such situations because of limitations in the data. The databases were missing some orders that have expired or been terminated. They also did not flag the use of firearms in specific crimes, so identifying cases required combing through court records.

Washington’s criminal statutes, however, contain a number of gun-specific charges, like unlawful possession of a firearm and aiming or discharging one, offering another window into the problem. Last year, The Times found, more than 50 people facing protection orders issued since 2011 were arrested on one of these gun charges.

More here: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/18/us/facing-protective-orders-and-allowed-to-keep-guns.html?hp&_r=0&pagewanted=print

**************

Peanut gallery: How did America get to this level of barbarism? How could anyone believe that the NRA cares about anyone' rights? Clearly, only a stupid idiot.

1Athena1

I am pasting more excerpts from this article - can't believe I missed it:

....

And in Oklahoma, The Times found the case of Barbara Diane Dye.

Ms. Dye, 40, obtained an emergency order of protection in July 2010, on the same day she filed for divorce from her husband, Raymond Dye, a firefighter. Ms. Dye, who worked as a personal trainer at a gym the couple owned, explained in her petition that since telling her husband she wanted a divorce because of his infidelity, he had repeatedly threatened to kill her. She wrote that she feared he would “have a violent reaction when he receives divorce papers.”

When asked if there were weapons on the premises, she wrote, “Yes.” In fact, Mr. Dye possessed an arsenal of weapons, which Ms. Dye and her family would later beg the local police to help them deal with, to no avail.

After obtaining the court order, which was good until a hearing about a lengthier order three weeks later, Ms. Dye went into hiding in Texas but returned to Oklahoma to attend divorce proceedings. Two weeks after obtaining the initial order, she was in a bank parking lot in the city of Elgin when her husband pulled up in his truck, blocking her in.

Witnesses later told the police that Mr. Dye, 42, tried to drag her into his truck. When she fought back, Mr. Dye brandished a .357 revolver and shot her in the leg. She fell to the ground. Mr. Dye fired several more shots into her, saying, “I love you, I love you,” according to the police report. He then shot himself in the chest with a different gun, a .45-caliber semiautomatic pistol, and collapsed, dead, onto his wife.

“We kept telling them, ‘He’s got all of these weapons,’ ” said Ms. Dye’s mother, Barbara Burk, a local official who has fought unsuccessfully in Oklahoma for a measure that would give judges issuing protective orders the power to order sheriffs to confiscate weapons and hold them for a “cooling off” period. “Is there nothing you can do?”

.....

1Athena1

Intimate partner homicides account for nearly half the women killed every year, according to federal statistics. More than half of these women are killed with a firearm. And a significant percentage were likely to have obtained protection orders against their eventual killers. (A 2001 study, published in Criminal Justice Review, of women slain by intimate partners in 10 cities put that number at one in five.)

It was in recognition of these converging realities that Congress included a provision in the 1994 crime bill, over the objections of the N.R.A., that barred most people subject to full protective orders filed by intimate partners from purchasing or possessing firearms. In a nod to the concerns of the gun lobby, the statute excluded most people under temporary orders, on the ground that they had not yet had the opportunity to contest the accusations in court.

The statute, though, is rarely enforced. In 2012, prosecutors nationwide filed fewer than 50 such cases, according to a Times analysis of records from the Transactional Records Access Clearinghouse, a research center at Syracuse University that collects federal government data.

It has, therefore, largely fallen to a state-by-state patchwork of laws to regulate this issue — or not.

A handful of states have enacted laws requiring that judges order the surrender of firearms when issuing even temporary protection orders. The strictest states, like California, Hawaii and Massachusetts, make it mandatory for essentially all domestic violence orders; others, like New York and North Carolina, set out certain circumstances when surrender is required. In a few other states, like Maryland and Wisconsin, surrender is mandatory only with a full injunction, granted after the opposing party has had the opportunity to participate in a court hearing. Several other states, like Connecticut and Florida, do not have surrender laws but do prohibit gun possession by certain people subject to protective orders.

Although enforcement remains an issue, researchers say these laws have made a difference. One study, published in 2010 in the journal Injury Prevention, found a 19 percent reduction in intimate partner homicides.

......

alexandria58

Chickadee - sending hugs and good thoughts from New Jersey. 

GatorGal

Chickadee, sounds rough. I feel so bad for what you're going through. Hope the next one isn't as bad ???? Hugs!

RetiredLibby

Oh, Chickadee, I'm so sorry you feel crappy but glad you're back on an upward (however slight) trajectory.  Thinking "zap those little buggers" thoughts down toward your way.

L

RetiredLibby

Here is a particularly "fun" story from Kenosha, WI, about an ATF inspector (a Fed) who intimidated and harassed a retired firefighter who was collecting signatures for the petition to recall Scott Walker. The ATF inspector is apparently still employed (a complaint to DOJ/ OIG wouldn't be amiss at this point, I'm sure):



Kenosha News

‘Hole in the law’ leaves restraining orders ineffective

If court order to surrender guns is ignored, county takes no action

February 2, 2013

BY DENEEN SMITH

dsmith@kenoshanews.com

When a retired firefighter from Bristol got a restraining order last spring barring a man who had threatened him from keeping guns or contacting him again, he thought he was taking a step that would keep him safer.



Instead, it provided an illustration of the gaping hole in the restraining order process.



The restraining order issued in the case ordered that the subject of the order, Trevor resident and Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms investigator Philip Dziki, not contact the firefighter for two years. In addition, the court ordered that Dziki be barred from possessing a firearm for two years, and that he turn in the guns that he owns. “The respondent shall immediately surrender any firearms he owns or has in his possession to the sheriff of this county,” Court Commissioner Jon Mason ordered in court.



The order included a stipulation that Dziki would be able to handle weapons in relation to his job as an ATF investigator.



Mason’s verbal order in court was followed by a written injunction with the same instructions.



“Violation of this order shall result in immediate arrest and is punishable by imprisonment not to exceed 90 days or by a fine not to exceed $1,000,” Mason told Dziki in court. “I am also issuing an order to the sheriff of Kenosha County, Wisconsin. The court has ordered that Philip Dziki surrender any firearms he owns or has in his possession to you. And you may not return any firearms to this person until a judge had ordered that you may return the firearms.”



That language is standard in such injunctions. It is routinely given in orders of protection issued in cases of domestic violence and child abuse. In harassment complaints, the complaint must indicate there is a danger of the use of guns, a fear that was present in the Dziki case.



According to the Kenosha Clerk of Courts office, 522 restraining order requests were filed last year. Of those, 215 were granted, 93 with firearms restrictions.



“There are ten of these scheduled every Monday, 52 weeks a year,” Mason said. There are usually more than 10 on a waiting list, those get bumped to open times in the court’s schedule on Tuesday and Wednesday each week.



Victims may leave Mason’s court with the with the assumption that the subject of the order will turn in his guns. They are likely mistaken. Because while the orders call for guns to be turned in to the sheriff — or in negotiated cases to a third party — no one in the legal system is responsible for following up on whether they are.



And when the guns are not turned in, the sheriff’s department policy has been that deputies do not have the ability to enforce the turnover without a second court order.



Assistant District Attorney Dick Ginkowski said there is an ongoing investigation into the circumstances surrounding the Dziki order. However, he acknowledged, “there is a hole in the law.”



That hole became apparent statewide last October when a man who was subject to a restraining order in a domestic violence case did not turn in his guns, and later went to the Brookfield spa where his wife worked, shooting her and two other women to death.



The county has been at work on creating a pilot program to address the issue. They are expected announce the launch of that program next week.



The firefighter said the Brookfield case prompted him to check to see whether Dziki had turned in his guns.



To his surprise, and to that of his attorney John Kiel, he was advised that not only had Dziki not turned in his guns, but that it was up to the firefighter to go back to court if he wanted to do something about it



Kiel and his client were told that the issue was a civil matter, and if they wanted Dziki to give up his guns, they would have to seek another injunction.



“Under the present circumstance, it would appear that the burden is upon the client and attorney John B. Kiel to bring the respondent back into Court,” wrote Bernard Vash, county corporation council, in an email to Sheriff Dave Beth. “I would also note that we have located no specific procedures in (the law) for a civil order search and seizure of the premises of a respondent given such an injunction to turn in his firearms.”



Kiel said he is upset that the burden is on his client to try to return to court to have the injunction enforced.



“I walked away from the court room that day, I thought this was over with,” the firefighter said. “I did what my lawyer told me to do, I just wanted it to go away.”



Kiel said he is worried about what the firefighter’s experience means for domestic violence victims who have similar orders that have never been acted upon. “I find it crazy that in America we’re having this debate about stricter firearms legislation, and we’re not even enforcing the ones we have,” Kiel said. “It’s frustrating. And it’s not only frustrating, it’s dangerous.”



Case began during recall effort



Politics set off the threats that led a retired firefighter to seek an order of protection.



During the series of recall battles that roiled Wisconsin in 2102, the retired firefighter was a volunteer collecting petitions in the recall drive against Gov. Scott Walker. Phil Dziki was a Walker supporter.



While the firefighter and another man were collecting signatures in Old Settlers Park in Paddock Lake last January a man in a blue Toyota twice pulled in to the park and berated them, saying they did not have a right to be in the park. While confronting them, the firefighter said, the man made a shooting motion with his hand.



The firefighter called law enforcement two months later when Dziki, whom he had never met, contacted him by phone at his home twice, making threatening statements because the firefighter had been collecting signatures in the Walker recall campaign. During the call, Dziki told the firefighter he was the same person who had twice confronted him at Old Settlers Park.



Dziki, 61, was cited for harassment and for unlawful use of telephone for his threats to the firefighter. He was later cited in another case where he contacted a couple who had signed Walker recall petitions, by email. In the email, Dziki, demanded the couple give “an adequate explanation” for their opposition to Walker. If he was not satisfied, he wrote, “I will distribute a copy of the petition you signed to all (of the members of their church’s) congregation.”



Included in the complaints were postings Dziki made on his Facebook page. In one photo, Dziki appears to be in a gun shop holding a large, semi-automatic weapon. Under the photo Dziki comments “for foreign varmints near the southwest border who don’t respect our laws.”



Under another photograph of Dziki holding a high powered weapon, Dziki comments “I should go to DC after some of the socialist pigs that are rooting around, foraging for more of our tax money.”



Dziki believes he is the one being targeted for harassment by the firefighter, who he described as a “union activist” and a “toxic activist element in our community.” Dziki said the firefighter targeted him because he is a conservative, and said the recall gave the firefighter “fertile ground for him to exploit.” He also suggested the court commissioner and the sheriff’s department supervisor who signed off on the citations were all biased against him, saying their names were included on lists of people who had signed recall petitions.



The citations related to the firefighter were later dismissed in exchange for Dziki agreeing to the terms of the restraining order. The second complaint was also dismissed after negotiations between the district attorney’s office and Dziki’s attorney.



Dziki said that his communications with the firefighter and the couple he contacted “were all political in nature, lawful and specifically protected.” He called people involved in the case and people who have made comments about it online “local troublemakers” who have “spread toxin against many in our community through the media in order to promote and continue their political activist agenda.”



He said he only agreed to the restraining order to stop what he saw as harassment and because, he said, “my attorney questioned whether the court commissioner would be fair” because the commissioner was a recall petition signer.



“I did not say that,” Dziki’s attorney Michael Masnica said, saying he had no idea whether or not the court commissioner had supported the recall. Masnica said he was not aware that Dziki had not turned weapons in to the sheriff’s department, and said he has not been in contact with him recently.



The firefighter said despite the no contact order, Dziki appears to be continuing to be concerned with his activities.



In July, two months after the restraining order was issued, Dziki’s wife put in a public records request at Central High School for all email communications sent or received by the firefighter, who works at the school part time, his wife, who is a teacher, and a woman employee who is a member of the couple targeted by Dziki in the second harassment complaint. The request — which targeted only those school employees and no others — asked for all records that included the keywords “recall, petition, Walker, Barrett, election, Dziki and ATF.”



An open records request was also sent to the office of state Sen. Bob Wirch in August, requesting any correspondence between Wirch and the firefighter. Wirch’s office denied that request. Dziki then made a complaint about that denial to the State of Wisconsin Department of Justice. In September, the attorney from the office responded that “the justifications in Senator Wirch’s letter appear to be legitimate” and declined to pursue action on Dziki’s behalf in the matter.



Case being reviewed



After the firefighter raised a series of complaints about the gun surrender issue over the past several months, Sheriff Dave Beth sent an email this week indicating the issue was being reopened.



“I have already asked a team to review this entire incident from beginning to end to make sure all those involved acted appropriately. This includes my staff as well,” Beth wrote.



Included in that review, Beth indicated in an earlier email, was the issue of whether Phil Dziki was correct, and that petition gatherers did not have a right to be in Old Settlers Park.



“I have questions of what occurred and of the initial complainants right to be in the county park working in the fashion they were,” Beth wrote.



Both the Wisconsin Government Accountability Board and Kenosha County Corporation Council have indicated petition gatherers for all the recalls — and other political activities — have the right to be in public parks.



In a memorandum guiding people interested in the circulation of recall petitions, the Government Accountability Board wrote that parks are “quintessential public forums.”



Corporation Council Bernard Vash also advised at the time of the recalls that the county could not restrict activity like petition gathering in county parks like Old Settlers or carrying political signs. Doing so, he advised, could violate the First Amendment.



This week, Vash said he had changed his mind. “I don’t believe that the Supreme Court has changed their opinion about that, and I don’t imagine they will,” he said.



---------------------------

End



How nice. Not only did he apparently use Federal government resources in a commission of a crime, he defied a court order (if you look it up in Wiscourts, you can read the text of the judgment, which leaves no doubt that he was to surrender his personal firearms). And he continues to harass the firefighter and the other couple through his wife, violating the spirit if not the letter of the restraining order. And it appears as though he is still employed! Don't know what they are waiting for! (if you want to read the original article, google his name. If you go directly to Kenosha News, it is behind a paywall)



L

pupmom

Oh, Chicky, I'm so sorry you had to go through that hell. But the laundry is a sign you're coming back. Who knew laundry could be a blessing. {{{{{Chickadee}}}}}

Anonymous

{{{{{{{Chickadee}}}}}} - hoping the next infusion will be easier.  Have you tried making Gingere tea?  Peel a large piece of fresh ginger, chop, add boiling water.  You can drink it hot, or use it as a juice when at room temperature.  Really seems to help settle the digestive system - I found it more effective than room temp ginger ale.  You can add some honey when it's hot, if you want a sweeter taste.  So sorry you're having such a difficult time, but we know it's ALL FOR THE GOOD - and you're going to be and feel much better.

At the worst, I found immodium ( with my oncologist approval) was the only thing that helped keep me out of the bathroom.  ALSO remember to keep as hydrated ( fresh ginger water) as you can.  Here's to CocoPuffs!  Or whatever your taste buds may want.

IllinoisLady

Hl & Athena

IllinoisLady

Meant to put HL above along with Athena's name.  You know, until certain things present themselves you just wouldn't know how appalling some of our laws are as well as the little loopholes that allow someone to get around them or ignore them all-together. 

Obviously I put in the above picture, huge as it is because it is such a large part of the problem.  When are we going to stop the  foolishness.  Gore is right about this.  We call ourselves civil but there is nothing too civil about having to stare at the barrel of a gun or KNOW how likely it might become that it is pointed at you. 

It is clear that far too many people in this world have no idea where there backbone is located.  They better hope it is not them next time who finally is forced to find out.

Jackie

no spell checker

crazy4carrots

The Real Spending Problem 

By THE EDITORIAL BOARD at the NY Times 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/17/opinion/sunday/the-real-spending-problem.html?hp&buffer_share=82e17&utm_source=buffer&_r=0 

"SNIP................................................. 

Each year, the government doles out tax breaks worth $1.1 trillion. That is more than the cost of Medicare and Medicaid combined. It is more than Social Security. It tops the defense budget, and it tops the budget for nondefense discretionary programs, which include most everything else. 

Tax breaks work like spending. Giving a deduction for certain activities, like homeownership or retirement savings, is the same as writing a government check to subsidize those activities. Functionally, they mimic entitlements. Like Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, they are available, year in and year out, in full, to all who qualify. Yet in budget talks, Republicans ignore tax entitlements, which flow mostly to high-income taxpayers, while pushing to cut Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. 

President Obama and Congressional Democrats have rightly asserted that tax breaks are ripe for cuts that could raise revenue without hurting most taxpayers. One method, as presented in the Senate Democratic plan, is to convert tax deductions, which increase in value as income rises, to tax credits, which would provide benefits more broadly and evenly among low-, middle- and high-income households.

Tax deductions, however, are only one kind of tax break. Many others take the form of arrangements that allow wealthy taxpayers to either escape tax entirely on specific transactions or to defer it indefinitely. 

*****************

About mortgage interest deduction:  We don't have that here in the GWN, and yet there is more home ownership per capita in Canada than in the U.S.  Somehow, we manage, along with having universal healthcare.

bluedahlia

Rough morning.  Night terrors resulted in my falling off of my high 4 poster bed and maybe broken nose.  I look like Rocky after his big fight + mushroom nose.

bluedahlia

Can't wear my glasses to type so may not be on for a couple days,