The Fungal Theory

Hindsfeet

Chiilipadi, you may not find what you need at your local pharmacy. There are some anti-fungal creams at the pharmacy that may help. You probably have a systemic fungus infection. You will need Diflucan to kick it out of your system.



Did you have surgery to remove your tumors? I am of the opinion that where there is a rotten spot cut it out. If we don't, with alternative treatment it could go into remission, but I have a hunch it's hiding until the environment is right to rear up it's ugly head or move elsewhere.



Yes...cancer/fungus needs aggressive treatment. We need to aggressively kill the fungus, build up our immune system and surgery too.



It seems as if you've tried a lot of alternative with slow progress. Don't give up! It doesn't happen over night to whatever treatment you choose.

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thenewme

Hi Chilipadi,

I'm so sorry you're having these issues.  I'm not sure I understand - is it skin mets?  I know you've posted before about huge tumors breaking through your skin - is this still the case?  It sounds so painful, and I can't imagine what you must be going through!  Have your lesions been tested?  Despite what some people would have you believe, fungus *IS* identifiable and distinguishable on pathologic study.  Doctors and pathologists *ARE* trained and skilled in looking for and treating fungal infections.  

It sounds as if you're at a much more critical stage of your disease than most, especially here in this forum.  What are your doctors saying and recommending for you?  If you've been diagnosed with fungal skin lesions, then by all means antifungals may be what you need, but *PLEASE* don't endanger your health by relying on anonymous internet people pretending to diagnose you with a systemic fungal infection and "prescribing" specific medications/treatments.  Read these posts VERY carefully and use the search function to get more information on people and treatments, so that you'll get a better feel for which posters and which advice may be more trustworthy to you.  Self medicating with over-the-counter diflucan may be fine for some people, but I can't just remain silent when I see people advocating that for you, with presumed skin mets and BC tumors breaking through your skin!  Oy. Over-the-counter self medication is fine for athlete's foot or a vaginal yeast infection, but this is a whole 'nother story.

I'm worried that you may be delaying or foregoing evidence-based treatments that have real potential to help treat your disease, and it bothers me terribly to see people making light of what sounds like extremely advanced breast cancer disease and suggesting you self-treat and ignore the advice of your doctors! Yikes!  Of course there are no guarantees with any treatment and nothing is going to cure you overnight, but I implore you to look for facts, research, and evidence-based information to give yourself the best odds for improvement and survival! 

Please keep posting and let us know how you're doing!  Feel free to PM and/or post if you have any questions that any of us may be able to help research.  My absolute best wishes to you!!!

Hindsfeet

thenewme...we are all here sharing our opinions and medical findings. We both sincerely want to help our BC sisters. You strongly agree with the conventional approach. This is your choice. I am free to give my opinion as you have done as well. I respect the choices of others and support them in it. However, I would hope that each person coming to

the board, and to this thread would do their homework and come up in what is best for them. This is why I said in my last post to Chilipadi ... Don't give up! It doesn't happen over night to whatever treatment you choose. NOTICE...whatever treatment you choose.



You said to Chilipadi

I'm worried that you may be delaying or foregoing evidence-based treatments that have real potential to help treat your disease, and it bothers me terribly to see people making light of what sounds like extremely advanced breast cancer disease and suggesting you self-treat and ignore the advice of your doctors!



I don't think anyone on this thread is making light of Chilipadi's health problem. I' don't know a lot about her condition. If it is advanced, I' don't know if chemo in late stage would save her life.

It is said that chemo may give a few weeks or maybe a few months to people with advance cancer..

I also don't know of any proven cancer treatments for late stage cancers.

Also...doctors aren't God. They make mistakes. In the end what we choose must be our own decision...no one elses. I could had lost my son if it wasn't for me going to the Internet for help. The doctors wouldn't believe he had meningitis until he was covered in purple spots. They hated that I dx it before they did.





What I liked about my second bc surgeon is she called us partners. She loved that I researched and was glad that the ultimate decision was mine. She was head of cancer research of the hospital She unfortunately moved to another state. It good to have doctors who aren't afraid to think outside the box. Wish there were more doctors like her.







.

impositive

thenewme, Glad you found your voice again. I was afraid you wouldn't be back here after your post on 12/15 saying, " Not to worry, this will be my last post on this thread, even if I'm "dared" to come back and muddle your "independent scholarly research" with facts. " 

It seems you've missed a little while you were gone though because chillipadi stated that she is on conventional treatments...metronomic chemo along with tamoxifen and her doctors aren't calling them skin mets.  I would suggest that you heed your advice and "read the posts here VERY carefully".  All the threads here at BCO are members trading knowledge, opinions and advice. What a wonderful thing and everyone's welcome to just jump right in.  We totally agree on one point...she should have her doctor test her lesions for fungus. I suggested that same thing a few posts back but you must have missed that too. 

Here's the sad truth, (chillipadi, correct me if I'm wrong) her docs haven't given her a diagnosis as to what these lesion are, he's just treating it with antibiotics without even knowing or testing!  If it is fungi, he's fueling it! 

As you stated, doctors and pathologists CAN test for fungi.... they just DONT (typically) and they have to know what they are testing for to know what lab methods to use.  Sound to me like fungi hasn't even been suggested by the physicians.  They weren't trained in medical school to look for it except as you say, for athlete's foot or vaginal yeast infection so they "guess" that it's viral or bacterial because that's the basis of their microbial education.   Sometimes doctors leave us no choice but to self medicate.... 

Btw, where can I get some of that "over the counter Diflucan" you mentioned?

digger

impositive and barry,

I'm not sure if you noticed, but most people have dropped off this thread after trying to provide some sound advice.  I have to second thenewme and support her for trying to hang in there and emphasize that our sisters do their own research and not depend on anonymous internet sources who claim to have, voila, found the answer to breast cancer.  There is no conspiracy, doctors and pathologists aren't all the bad guys trying to hide the answers to make a buck.  My concern as well is that others will happen upon this thread and hop on the cancer=fungus theory.  I do find it interesting that one can go on the Internet and come up with any number of "medical-sounding" articles and research to back up any theory.  This makes any theory feel like it's backed by sound medicine.  Just really scary.  

I know I'm going to be bullied off this thread as well, and I should be more like those on the initital pages who tried to chime in and left because they didn't want to be bullied, but I do want to support thenewme and appreciate that she's hanging in there.

Hindsfeet

digger...It seems very much the bullying is the other way around. (edit...we would like to with reason to discuss the fungal theory). I fully realize the fungal theory is controversial. New theories get a lot of unfair criticism.. It's ok. I appreciate anyone who comes here with a different opinion as does impositive. When I first logged onto this thread, I thought it could be a factor to some cancers. I was and still I am open to it not being the root cause of cancer if someone out there can show me the evidence it isn't. I have no problem saying I'm wrong or in being corrected. I want the truth. This subject became an importance to me due to a recent candida infection, and this thread spurred me to do more research on it. The more I found, the more I am convinced an overgrowth of yeast is the culpret!



We aren't against doctors or the medical establishment. I hope researchers will look more into the fungal theory. There are good doctors out there. We all have to find a doctor whom we feel comfortable with. I have had a few bad doctors, and am grateful for the good doctors I have right now. So it's unfair to say we are against doctors or believe there is a conspiracy theory. We aren't making anyone out to be the bad guys. Except to say that where there's money there's often corruption. It's just that unfortunately for whatever reason fungus isn't being taught in Medical School.



All of our intentions are sincere. Personally, I hold no ill will. I would like to think that we can discuss this graciously. (((HUGS)))

digger

I have no doubt that any of your intentions are sincere, but perhaps it would be better to preface some comments and theories with "in my opinion" so others don't happen upon this thread, see the various "studies" that you've dug up somewhere on the Internet and then assume they are indeed facts.  For instance, your statement that "for whatever reason fungus isn't being taught in Medical School."  I think that's your opinion or theory, unless you're privy to the exact curricula of all the medical schools in the United States.  And more power to you if you believe that yeast is the culprit of your cancer, and I hope you are able to eradicate the yeast so you don't have to keep dealing with recurrences.  But please don't bemoan the idea that you have to keep explaining these theories to other women on here simply because they're "controversial."  They are your opinions, I congratulate you for digging into the Internet and finding the cause of cancer which has eluded so many other researchers, but again, these are your opinions, not statements of fact, so they should be stated as such.

 Hugs.

Hindsfeet

digger...actually the studies that I post aren't based on my opinion. They are the findings from those who researched fungus/cancer link, and I believe recently I posted up something from John Hopkins. I usually do say when it is an opinion that it is my opinion.

You said...

But please don't bemoan the idea that you have to keep explaining these theories to other women on here simply because they're "controversial."


Your statement feels like a put down? Or did you misunderstand what I said? Yes...the fungus theory seems to be a very controversial topic. I am looking for the truth. From what I've seen so far the facts presented here make it clear that fungi factors in cancer. No one so far has given reason for me to believe otherwise. Naysayers just say, where's the science, without giving evidence against it. Motheroffoursons has graciously and intelligently given why she believes what she believes...without personal attacks. I respect her for that. But like impositive said where she is coming from is old school.



I said, We are constantly having to explain, reasonably why the fungus theory is a strong possibility to the cause of cancer. I would like to restate that sentence. With reason, we want to discuss this theory. This is what I meant.


We can graciously agree to disagree.

impositive

Hi digger, I will start by saying I truly hope people don't come to this thread and get the impression that I bully people. I try to be kind and have respect for the women who are going through the same issues as I.  There are a couple of members who have come here to launch attacks on those of us who are trying to have reasonable discussions on our theorys and opinions, simply because their opinions dont match ours.  When I feel attacked, I become defensive. I think that is a normal reaction.  I dont know how many pages of this thread you've covered but if you'll look back, I think you'll understand what I mean.  I think you will also see that I'm not posting some "anonymous internet source" or "medical-sounding website" just to sway people to believe as I. A lot of the links I post are from Pubmed which is a ".gov" website.  They are indeed factual studys and research papers. As barry pointed out, motheroffoursons is one who graciously posts her opposing opinions.  She discects my posts and I hers and we agree to disagree. That's an intelligent debate and I appreciate her coming here to do so.

I dont think you give the women on these boards enough credit.  We have all been newbys to this diagnosis and I dont believe any of us are blindly following someone elses "theorys".  IMO, it's the intelligent women who come here to these forums to get more information. They can then make up their own minds. 

As far as (lack) of mycology being taught in medical school....that statement is fact, not opinion and I will back that up with a link to an article. It is a study conducted and authored by men and women who have some very prestigious affliations such as Duke University (see the authors and their affliations at the top of page 1) and published in a journal called Taylor and Francis Health Sciences.  The paper is quite intensive (11 pages) but I hope you take the time to at least scan some of the info there as it is very eye opening. It is titled Status of Medical Mycology Education.  Here is a excerpt from the article:

The number of immunocompromised patients and subsequent invasive fungal infections continues to rise. However, the education of future medical mycologists to engage this growing problem is diminishing. While there are an increasing number of publications and grants awarded in mycology, the time and detail devoted to teaching medical mycology in United States medical schools are inadequate. Here we review the history in medical mycology education and the current educational opportunities. To accurately gauge contemporary teaching we also conducted a prospective survey of microbiology and immunology departmental chairpersons in United States medical schools to determine the amount and  content of contemporary education in medical mycology.

This is what they discovered in their survey (there were 109 respondants)....

Most respondents felt there was a ‘‘training crisis'', primarily because of the lack of adequate training programs, courses, and seminars at all levels. They noted that education and training in medical mycology was underemphasized and there was a decline in the number and quality of diagnostic laboratories with trained personnel [5].....We found only two other surveys of mycology education in US medical schools, and they were embedded in a larger effort to investigate microbiology and immunology curricula and included no substantial data about mycology [14]....

A survey in 1992 by AMSMIC found an average of 4.9 hours devoted to lectures and conferences and 1.4 hours to laboratory instruction on mycology in medical school curricula.

digger, that's 6.3 hours spent in a doctor's entire med school career on the subject of mycology!  Doesn't that just blow you away?

impositive

digger, sorry...I forgot to post the link:

http://www.njmoldinspection.com/steinbach_med_mycoed.pdf

barry said the naysayers always come and ask for "proof", never to offer any. I consider myself fairly intelligent and I would not believe in this theory without real studies that link fungus and cancer.  There is a lot to be explored here and my problem is that with all the money be raised and spent on cancer research, no one (or very few) are researching the link and the ones who are... are having to combat the naysayers as well.  It seems most of the money is lining the pockets of the drug companies.

A far as conspiracy is concerned, to me that means there would have to be a meeting of the minds and them saying, "OK, let's trick everyone into believing there's no cure so we can make money off our drugs."  Of course I don not think that is happening and I dont think these people are bad people (my father-in-law is retired from Eli Lilly Pharmaceuticals.)  Doctors do their best with what they are given and if they think outside the box and stray from conventional treatment, they are threatened to have their license revoked. They are also coerced (or should I say bribed) by the drug companies to dispense their drugs.  Did you know that an oncologist gets paid around $7000-$10,000 for every patient he enrolls in a clinical trial or that a majority of a doctor's continuing education is sponsored by drug companies? It's a huge conflict of interest. So "conspiracy"...I think not but when there is a trillion dollar industry at stake if someone were to find the cure for cancer, you would be mistaken if you think there's no corruption. 

Finally, I would like to say that I hope you take my words (and the info posted here) into consideration.  It may not sway you to believe in the fungal link but even if your opinions differ from ours, at least you could post your research to the contrary...because as you said, it would help others to see that there's another fact based side to this theory.   

Anonymous

Impositive, please read this:

 http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/08/a_fungus_among_us_in_oncology.php

It's written by an oncologist and there are reply posts from other physicians including pathologists

His blogs deal with psuedoscience.

Hindsfeet

If all scientists and researchers put up a wall anytime a new theory or idea was presented we'd never get anywhere in the world medicine. Lets not throw out concepts and ideas just because we THINK we already have the answers....and i think its pretty clear that we dont have the answers.



This is the second time I've posted this...needs to be said again.



Black-cat, I looked at the link...it was sad that they based their opinion on one person's work, and a lot of the those who commented didn't watch the video through or watch it at all. Their minds were made up before carefully checking out this theory. And they didn't consider all the research done on this theory. They are throwing darts at this theory when in essence they have no idea what causes cancer or how to cure it. I have a hard time respecting mean spirited comments ... especially people who say they are professional. It's like judging a theory or someone work before knowing all the facts. Unprofessional.

chillipadi

Ladies, please don't fight. I appreciate everyone's input with all my heart and I applaud anyone who has the courage to speak up. It is never easy to stick your neck out. As my condition is advanced, I believe that adopting both a natural and conventional approach is required. As Impositive said, I am doing metronomic chemo with Tamoxifen. I also received my first Zoladex shot a month ago, to stop my ovaries from producing estrogen. When DIM, progesterone and various natural anti-estrogenic methods didn't seem to help, I decided to try the less harmful allopathic therapies. I even did Navelbine chemo about 4 months ago, but it stopped working after just one cycle. Prior to that, I did Xeloda and cyclophosphamide, but they stopped working after just a few months.

I had a lumpectomy the first time I was diagnosed almost a decade ago at Stage 1. At that time, I didn't know anything about alternative or holistic therapies. I had heard terrible things about Tamoxifen and radiation then, so I refused both and went on my merry way. Actually, I was fine for many years after that. A new lump did form again at the original site, but it hardly grew and was no more than the size of an almond when it started bleeding sporadically sometime in 2007, I suspect it was stress that triggered it as my husband's business had failed, we were deep in debt, had lost our home and were forced to live with his parents for almost a year (end-2006 to Oct 2007), and they were very nasty to us. When the cancer worsened while we were living with them, I turned to them for help as we couldn't afford medical treatment or even supplements but they didn't want to hear about it. They were too busy travelling and enjoying golf at their country clubs. My father died during that time and my mother has dementia.

The radiation oncologist whom I met for the first time yesterday feels that the tumors on my breast are too large and profuse for an optimal outcome if we do radiation now. Masectomy is out of the question. The rad onco hopes that Zoladex will start to work and help reduce the mass, so that there will be a better outcome with radiation. If Zoladex shows signs of working, my regular onco will add an AI to the treatment. Femara failed me after just a few months (I was premenopausal), while Aromasin and Faslodex never worked.

So I haven't exactly been sitting around twiddling my thumbs. I have tried several alternative therapies too, but nothing seemed to make a difference. Budwig protocol (BP), B17 (apricot kernels etc) protocol, alkaline approach are just some I tried for many months. I even followed the BP faithfully for 14 months, during which my condition deteriorated drastically. 

Interestingly, recent scans show that the cancer is still localised, confined to one breast. It does not seem to have spread anywhere. So, although the disease is advanced, it is not late-stage. It is still considered Stage 3. Both my regular onco and rad onco are perplexed by this. I have a very healthy diet and walk daily, and I managed to get help to buy supplements about a year ago, so this may be a reason.

I have dumped the antibiotic tablets which my onco gave me and started on an antifungal powder, clotrimazole, yesterday. Besides consuming apple cider vinegar and coconut oil, both antifungals, anybody have any suggestions about what else I can take to treat my system? I'll only be seeing my onco in 2 weeks time, but I doubt she will prescribe me anything systemic for the fungating lesions.

Hugs to you all, and may 2011 be kind to you.

digger

All I can say is wow.  I'm not sure why this thread bothers me so much.  I think it's just that someone can find a statistic or a "reliable" source anywhere to back up any theory or hypothesis, and that's what bothers me.  Also, it shows that one is going to believe what one is going to believe, no matter what other people try to point out.  Have you read the recent book Tabloid Medicine?  It addresses this very issue about mining the Internet and discussion boards to bolster pseudoscience and the danger it poses.

Check out the first page of this thread where people tried to tell you that this baking soda, fungus, etc. theories have been debunked time and time again in a multitude of reputable scientific sources.  They pointed you to links to other threads on here that address this very issue, so it's not like what you're "discovering" out there is unique, special, or mind-blowing.  Yet, someone is still going to come on here, argue they've done 6.3 hours of research on the Internet, and they have now "discovered" the cause of cancer and what ails all of us.  If one really feels cancer=fungus, then that's what you're going to believe and that's what you're going to find "facts" to back it up.  I'm obviously not going to sway you, and not being a medical expert, I'm not even going to try.  If you think all chemo, herceptin, radiation etc. is poison, then so be it.  No one is going to change your mind, and you are quite entrenched on defending your position, so more power to you.  It's unfortunate that the real statistics show that an aggressive cancer, without standard treatment, will march on, and I do find that really sad.  Yes, you can always find someone out there who seems to have a "miracle" of a cancer cure through some diet, nutritional supplement, etc., but for every person who seems to have a "miracle," there are many, many more out there who succumbed because they valiantly refused standard treatment for their own "cure."  

But at the same time, I do realize that one needs to feel in "control" of one's body, so if bulking up on supplements, baking soda, antifungals, etc. while foregoing standard treatment is going to help you feel in control and that you're in the driver's seat, again, then more power to you on that one too.  Please do, however, keep us posted on the status of your cancer, and if it doesn't remit, then obviously the board is here to help you on that as well.

On a personal note, I do find it a little scary that chillipadi has now dumped her antibiotics prescribed by her oncologist in favor of an antifungal, because, probably in no small part due to this thread, she feels she has fungating lesions instead.  Chillipad, please take care of yourself and make sure to at least hear what your medical doctor, your oncologist, is saying.   

thenewme

Ditto everything Digger said!  This thread bothers me too, which is why I'm drawn to coming back to it.  I'm concerned about Chillipadi and anyone else who stumbles onto this thread looking for accurate information.  

As you say, anyone can go to Pubmed or other legitimate sites and do a search for the word fungus, for example, and see that there are 54614 articles that come up.  Some of those even  include the word "cancer!"  <gasp>.   Some people keep coming back to post those articles and pretend that they support their disproven theories, apparently in a  bizarre attempt to establish themselves as some sort of mycology/cancer/whatever expert.  In many cases, the studies they post do NOT support the claims the poster is making.

In this case, it seems certain people are trying to use legitimate research studies to "prove" that cancer is fungus.  It isn't.  After 464 posts on this thread alone, I have not seen a SINGLE thing to convince me that cancer is a fungus.  It's ludicrous to pretend that even by virtue of having breast cancer and doing some Googling, that any of us know more than the consensus of trained, experienced, and actively practicing medical and research professionals!  Is there even one single *credible* expert who says "cancer is a fungus?"   I know, "credible" is in the eye of the beholder, but really, Doug Kauffman?  Tullio Simoncini? Joe Mercola?  Mike Adams?  I've asked before and nobody seems to want to discuss why these people should be considered experts.

Doug Kauffman (Know the Cause) and the rest of these guys are snake oil salesman, and anyone who insists on using them as credible "experts" on medical issues has extremely questionable motives and critical thinking skills, IMHO.  

One reason this bothers me so much is that from personal experience with my own real-life family and friends, I know for a fact that real people who I trust and consider to be reasonably intelligent can fall into these kinds of delusions.  I'm a real cancer patient with real medical issues, and it makes my blood boil when someone tries to tell me to "cure" myself with athletes foot powder or baking soda or BHRT or whatever the theory du jour is.  

It's not "thinking outside the box." It's not "keeping an open mind."  It's clinging to disproven theories and making ridiculously exaggerated claims.   

I've said it before, but we can all believe whatever we want and we all have to make our own personal choices and I'm good with that.  However, when you (general "you") come here suggesting that this-or-that can prevent/cure/treat breast cancer, I personally intend to call you on it every single time.  If you think asking for evidence and facts and challenging nonsense theories is bullying, then so be it.  I guess I'll be Bully Extraordinaire.  

The elephant in the room is that maybe "nobody" is studying fungus as cancer or learning it in medical school because it's been shown to be untrue.  It's like expecting  an astrophysics university to teach its students that the moon is made of cheese!  

I won't have it on my conscience if someone heeds the advice to self treat with useless therapies for advanced breast cancer, ignoring their medical team, and heaven forbid suffers for it. This isn't some fantasy world where we get to save the world with our heroic underdog imaginary theories.  

Chillipadi, I echo Digger's wishes for you.  Please do take good care of yourself.  I sincerely wish you nothing but the best in your battle.  I've been to your blog and it seems that you were doing so well and I hope you can get back to good health. 

bluedahlia

Antifungals can cause liver damage.  That's all I'm going to say.

Hindsfeet

bluedahia...most fungi creams as for ringworm give a warning that it can effect the liver. The more powerful fungi drugs nystatin and Diflucan are prescription drugs. They too possibly can damage the liver. These drugs should only be used under the care of one's doctor...and only used in an extreme cases of fungal infection. There are lots of natural herbs that are anti-fungal. These of course should be used first. I have a friend whose doctor prescribed her one diflucan pill every time she has antibiotics. It completely clears up her yeast infection...just one pill.



Have you consider all the other medicines for cancers that damage the liver?



Tamoxifen: Tamoxifen & liver damage http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/d/drug_induced_liver_damage_tamoxifen/intro.htm



Chemo: http://www.uptodate.com/patients/content/topic.do?topicKey=~FcFFOyA0xVABk7

Chemo…liver damage



Prednisone-steriods: http://www.drugs.com/prednisone.html



Many of these more poweful drugs also cause kidney damage.

Hindsfeet

My goodness...where do I start.



First in regard to the link black-cat posted...I have a difficult time with any sites that blast anything or anyone without showing facts behind their accusations. The whole website basically blasted most of those who speak out for holistic medicine. To me it was just a bunch of people, not sure if they are who they say they are, venting. The website felt dark, mean and wrong...and for people who are suppose to be professional, they were very dis-respectful and unprofessional.



I saw nothing on that link that would convince me that the fungal theory is wrong. Nothing. I need facts. All I get from naysayers is anger, rude behavior, and pointing the finger. They take one piece of the puzzle of this theory presenting it as the whole picture. It's not.



I would hope that we can be respectful in how we communicate our differences. If I said anything to hurt your feelings, I apologize. We are all women who have had to deal with cancer.



We live in a free country where we have the right to discuss any theory we wish. We have the right to choose our own treatment plan. We have the right to share what works for us or doesn't work.



Give us our freedom to search for ourselves and choose what is best for us. Thank You.

Hindsfeet

To add a personal note here...



Before ever hearing about the fungal theory, I decided I would never take anything that would severely suppress my immune system. For this reason, I chose not to take tamoxifen, and if I had an invasive cancer, I would not do chemo. This is my personal choice. I figure my life and times are in God's hands...and when it's my time to go, I will. Meanwhile, I will do what I can to stay healthy, take vitamin D, and other supplements. I am at peace with my decision, and what more can you ask for.



I have friends now who have chosen conventional treatment, chemo and the works. I gave a friend a hug yesterday and said whatever choice she makes, I'm 100% behind it...for her. This is how we should be for one another.

digger

Um, I guess from that point of view, if you can't prove a theory wrong, it therefore must be right? Kind of convoluted, stick-your-head-in-the sand thinking, but that's your choice in how to approach any theory, no matter how out there it is.  Seems to me that the more out there the theory is, the harder to disprove it, but whatever.

Barry, I do respect your choices because they'e obviously your individual choices, but I do also hope your biopsy today (the potentially third time you've dealt with cancer while refusing conventional treatment) is benign.  

CrunchyPoodleMama

Girls - I've got a lot of catching up to do on this thread, but the episode of "Mystery Diagnosis" that's airing right now is about a woman who had a massive tumor in her sinus cavity. She was about to undergo radiation to shrink it when her husband's idea to get a second opinion. It turned out not to be a cancerous tumor at all but a fungus! Of course, the show didn't go into the depth of detail we all would like to know, but it shows yet again how fungus is inextricably linked to cancer (or at the very least, can be mistaken for cancer).

The episode is titled "Fight to the Last Breath" in case anyone wants to catch it when it reruns.

impositive

Blackcat,  I've seen this video, prior to your post. The accompanying script is merely someone's blog...an opinion.  I get that he has a very strong opinion against anything other than mainstream by his use of the words quackery, paranoid, anti-physician, anti-medicine, outrageously, incoherent, paranormal silliness. The word bullying sometimes gets used in some of these threads. IMO, when someones using words like this to describe an opposing view, that's true bullying. 

impositive

Wow, chilipadi, you have certainly run through the gamut of therapies. I'm really sorry to hear that nothings really helped you so far.  Stress seemed to be a factor in my cancer as well.  It's been documented (even in mainstream studies) that stress can hinder our immune system.  I hope you have been able to work it all out and are in a better place.

I'm still unclear. You had a new lump form at the original site and then it started to bleed. Was this internal or external (a skin lesion?) 

You say your doctors are perplexed. It sounds like they are throwing everything at this and nothing seems to be working. Please let us know if the clotrimazole has any effects.  If it does over these next two weeks then maybe you could take those results to your doctor and broach the subject of fungi. Misdiagnosis between cancer and fungi aren't unheard of. (That fact has been documented in mainstream, as well). If an over the counter antifungal helps....maybe you've discovered the cause of your lesions.

As far as treating your system naturally...Whether this is cancer or fungus, they both thrive on sugar so if it were me, I would try to cut all forms of sugar (even most fruits) and anything that quickly metabolizes into sugar in my bloodstream (potatoes, grains, ie: breads, rice, corn, etc) out of my diet. A low carb diet helps to starve cancer/fungus.  There are tons of natural antifungals you could take but if money is an issue, that gets expensive.  Vegetables of all kinds and colors possess very potent antifungal and anti-cancer properties (again, a fact well documented even in mainstream studies) so I would load up on those.  You could even try juicing them if that's something you haven't tried.  If money's tight, you dont need to go out and buy a juicer, PM me and I will tell you how I do it without one. You might visit barry's thread on boosting your immune system as well since we need all the ammo we can get against this.  Probiotics are a really good place to start since they say 80% of our immunity begins in our gut.

Best of luck to you and keep us posted!

Hindsfeet

Julia, crunchy, I wished I could had seen it. We do not get the channel that has Mystery Dx. I love the show...and miss it terribly. Did anyone tape it?





digger...sorry that you feel as if I'm putting my head in the sand. For years, I pretty much did that...I never question doctors until they made a few bad decisions that effects my life forever. I have RSD in my right hand, wrist because the doctor wouldn't believe I was in serious pain..I researched until I found out what was wrong with me because the doc didn't seemed concerned. Later he agreed, when it was too late to change the dx,.which means as an artist, I have a stiff, clumsy right hand. I lost all my fine motor control, and I have to constantly be careful not to injure my hand and keep it from going into a pain syndrome the rest of my life! I have to be careful it doesn't spread into other parts of my body. I do have it in my right breast at the site of the surgery. When stressed, my right breast burns.



Since then, I've decided, I would have a say in medical decisions that effects my life...and I don't want to learn after the fact when nothing can be done about it. I want to turn over rock and find out what caused the cancer in the first place. I've learned to think for myself. Right now, the fungus theory makes the most sense...although I still have a few questions that need to be answered before completely embracing it.



My biopsy today was at 9 a.m. Pacific time. The biopsy was taken on the good breast for a very small lump that showed up on the mri and ultrasound. I saw it on the mammogram today. I did not see califications so I assume it's going to be a B9 lump. I'm not worried about a recurrence. I feel pretty good that after two years my bad breast that was multifocal como-neu grade 3 has not shown more cancer. That's the good news

impositive

digger and thenewme, I guess I'm not sure why this thread bothers you so much either.....

You ladies dispute the facts then ask for proof and I give you valid studies, such as the one regarding how med students only get 6.3 hours worth of the study of mycology. It seems when you ladies are given legitimate answers based on reputable studies is when you really get incensed. I simply dont understand it.

I dont spend my time scouring the internet looking for blogs and opinions or websites touting a cure. I look for legitimate studies on sites like Pubmed, etc., linkingfungus and cancer or I'm reading various books on the subject.  Books, by the way, that have references of studies to back up their facts. Digger, you say these theories have been debunked time and time again in a multitude of reputable scientific sources.  Please show me just ONE of those scientific studies.  I'm open minded, maybe it would change my view. 

the newme,you wrote: "Some people keep coming back to post those articles and pretend that they support their disproven theories, apparently in a  bizarre attempt to establish themselves as some sort of mycology/cancer/whatever expert.  In many cases, the studies they post do NOT support the claims the poster is making." 

No doubt you are referring to me.  I dont pretend to be anything I'm not. Who I am, is someone who has devoted my life, since my diagnosis, in helping myself. I am being proactive in my healing. I'm not willing to be led around blindly, by the "experts"in this field.

Hey, tell you know what? Let's ask the experts...

"Expert, tell me, what causes cancer?" 

Expert- "Well, we dont know."   (to make this work, you have to lower your voice here) 

Expert, tell me, what cures cancer?"

Expert- "Well, we're not sure but we have some pretty toxic drugs we can throw at it. They'll reduced your quality of life and they may not kill the cancer before they kill youbut we have many more if those dont work."

EXPERTS??? I think not.  It reminds me of a joke my dad used to tell. It was about a little boy who kept asking has father questions about life. After every question, the father would ponder it and say, "Well son, I dont know." After several questions, the little boy said, "Well, thanks dad, for trying to help." and the father replies, "Oh, that's okay son, if you didn't ask questions, how would you ever learn anything?" 

I have put in countless hours of study into this.    In my search I have come upon some things that make total sense to me and I came here to toss it around with those of you who are interested. I'm not trying to PROVE anything to anyone. You can take it...or you can leave it. It's your choice and isn't it great that we have one?!  But if you are truly interested in someone getting the wrong information here,  please ladies....offer us something here besides snide comments and sarcasm.  Something we can latch onto, refutable evidence. 

impositive

Hey, Julia! How are you? I missed the episode but it reminds me of some of the stories I've posted here, like the one about the nurse with "leukemia" that turned out to be a fungal infection. It's really scary that we could be misdiagnosed and be treated with mx and chemo, only to find out it's a fungal infection (very serious in it's own right) that should have been treated accordingly.  Just think if her husband had gone along with the doctors.....Very scary indeed and that's why it pays to be proactive!

Anonymous

I should have given you a warning that the blogger is not only a very well known cancer surgeon but a university researcher and professor as well. He is not only an MD but a PHD as well. I should have directed you to his disclaimer first:

" Orac tries to keep his insolence respectful most of the time, but readily admits that he sometimes fails in cases of obvious quackery and pseudoscience, responding to personal attacks on him, examining poor critical thinking skills, bigotry or racism, and just general plain stupidity. When the stupidity to which Orac is responding reaches a certain very high level, he just can't help it and makes no apologies. You will know this is happening when Orac uses the phrase "the stupid, it burns" or some variant thereof."

In reality this man cares very deeply about fighting breast cancer and finding a cure.  His blog is chiefly written for other physicians and researchers.

This was written by him 4 years ago.  It gives you some insight why he is so snarky and disgusted by the theory of fungas causing cancer.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2006/10/death_by_alternative_medicine_whos_to_bl.php

Please read this one as well:

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/12/a_tale_of_two_victims_of_breast_cancer.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+scienceblogs%2Finsolence+%28Respectful+Insolence%29

 I took the time to post this reply because this thread deeply disturbs me.  My survival rate is 50/50.  Without chemo/mastectomy and radiation my survival rate would have been 0.  I have a medical and science background.   I know about critical thinking and how to easily debunk these myths but I worry about other woman that don't have critical thinking skills. They may take this thread as gospel and decide to stop conventional medicine.   They may choose to pursue a cure for their fungal infections, which ultimately will cure their cancer.   And sadly, when they find out how wrong they were, it just may be too late. 

impositive

Blackcat, I understand your concerns but I am one of those women you speak of who has chosen to go my own way because I see how ineffective conventional treatments have been for loved ones.  If you've chosen to go the conventional route and it has worked for you, then I am sincerely relieved for you and I would never begrudge you for that, ever.  I just cant go there and there are others who feel as strongly about the subject.  The thing that bothers me is, to date, no one can debunk this for me.  Maybe you have something to offer with your medical background.  Everyone wants to offer their opinions but no has offered scientific evidence.  As I have said, I am open minded.  Thoughtful conversations even if it's opposing views sometimes lead to new discovery. 

I'm really not interested in someones blogs because they are merely opinions...I want science!

luv_gardening

Black cat, I've read most of these articles and comments and find it upsetting that people lump all or most 'alties' in the same boat. The bulk of alternative and complimentary therapists will recommend traditional treatments for serious illnesses, complimented by alts.

I'm a strong believer in the Law of Attraction (like The Secret) which I've followed for 10 years but I would not contemplate for a second not having surgery for something as serious as breast cancer. You see traditional treatments are something I've grown up with along with society so belief in conventional medicine is so ingrained that not using it would be like a death sentence according to the Law of Attraction. So I use my faith in surgery and the hormonals as a way of boosting my belief that I will survive this. The Secret was a rather simplified and distorted view of the Law of Attraction.

No one on this thread is suggesting anyone abandon common sense. If antibiotics haven't worked over several weeks then trying a topical anti-fungal sounds like good science to me.

Orac appears to pick the extremes to disprove all alternative and complimentary therapies, just as some in the alternative camp try to discredit all medicine instead of recognising there are many good conventional treatments. Orac may be an authority on his subject but then many highly intelligent and educated authorities believe in completely opposing beliefs so they can't all be right. Hence "appealing to authority" may be just as wrong when the authority is Orac as when it's any other person who's authority we have believed or called into question in this thread.  We need to look at the big picture and throw everything we can at the cancer until we find the answer, not restrict ourselves to the 'standard of care'.

Personally I don't believe cancer is a fungus, but if the link with fungus is not researched we may miss something that aids in the eventual cure.  One day one of the alternatives may really prove to be the cure and when it takes off it will spread like wildfire.  So those brave enough to try these possible remedies are risking their health and maybe their life as an experiment that may one day save millions of lives around the world.  This is how nature works.  A whole load of useless and damaging genetic changes happen before finally a genuine improvement happens.   Excuse my lack of scientific terms, but I'm sure you get the drift.

Please stop worrying that people will abandon treatments as that is mostly not true except for mainly the hormonals which can be duplicated with natural products. I've not seen anyone on these forums who have turned down surgery of their primary cancer and if they did it would almost certainly be due to their own beliefs, not anything we have written here.

Time for us all to stop worrying, the world is perfect as it is.

Anonymous

Impositive, the theory was debunked in that blog.   Cancerous tissue is sliced up and put on slides and interpreted by histologists and pathologists. They are not finding fungi. All cells  have  distintive appearances and are easily identified.  If fungi was in cancerous tumors, it would be discovered on the slides. 

Sodium Bicarbonate as a cure makes no sense. Sodium Bicarb is used in medicine for adjusting PH.  20 years ago ACLS guidelines has us push bicarb as a first line of defense in code blues. The ratiotional was that alkalatic would have a better success rate than acidosis.  Not only did the save rate not improve but patients that were revived were stroking out in ICU and then dying. Bicarb is no longer first line of defense in for code blues.

 How is a drug used for metabolic acidosis going to cure fungal infections let alone cancer.

Your ph is between 7.35 and 7.45 slighty alkaline. If it was anything above or below these numbers you would not be walking around.  You cannot change your PH with food.  This whole alkaline diet thing is malarky.  PH of your stomach is acidic about 6 if I can remember correctly. All food in your stomach will become acidotic. 

I dont know what kind of relationship you have with your oncologist but if he/she does not have the time to sit with you and discuss your concerns with conventional medicine, I suggest you seek a second opinion and get one that will. Stage one cancer is highly curable with conventional treatment.  You should be watched closely due to your grade 3 histology and Her 2 positive status.

Another thought that comes to mind is to go to your local community college and talk to a microbiology instructor about your theories.  If you have the time,  take a microbiology class and learn for yourself.  I really gained a lot through a one semester critical thinking class I took years ago.  Pseudoscience was 1/3 of the class.  A lot of those classes(that dont have labs) are online nowadays.