Forgive or Forget?

perky

You guys really helped me work through this and it is very freeing. Stinks that we all know at least one person like that. Good thing none of us are that person!

It is my belief that Cushing's did cause my BC but who knows? There are a lot of women that don't get cancer (many do) and a more women with BC that never had Cushing's.

FireKracker

i have a long list of shitheads that i have gotten rid of.JUST GET A BROOM AND SWEEP THEM OUT. case closed.i got no room for you or your bullshit.

Lowrider54

Luckily, we can pick our friends.  Sadly, we don't have that option with family.

perky

Granny, You made me think of the film Practical Magic. We can all get our brooms, cast spells and throw out evil spirits that want to ruin our day!

So my sister came and you all helped so much. She did pretty much what I described and then some. But instead of letting it get to me, I just watched like she was a science experiment and realised that she cannot tell the truth. She is competitive in all things including illness. She lives in her own fantasy world and gets very upset if anything threatens it. So it isn't personal. She really can't see past her own mirror and that is sad.  I survived her while recovering from surgery! Yay!!!

You are the BEST! Truely!  

FireKracker

YAY PERKY.....its just not worth it.and you are the better person in more ways then i can say.God bless you.hugggggggggggs K

3monstmama

Your sister reminds me of my supervisor.  I spent this year dealing with surgery and rads and radiation pneumonitis and now am going through more surgery.  My ultimate boss was diagnoised with throat cancer in September ---so sad, he is SUCH a nice man--has had biopsy and will be doing rads and chemo.  Well my supervisor is CONSTANTLY talking about how our boss is going to have rads and how awful it will be for him and how tired it makes you and it burns your skin--did I know that?

yup.  familiar with the treatment. . . . .grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I would add, Perky, that your sister is like my mother.  No one is as sick or ill as my mother.  Even her sister who has severe rheumatoid artheritis [sp] is accused by my mother of "faking it."  Treating those kinds of people as a science experiment gets two thumbs up in my book!

SmilingSpirit

Hi Perky, I just got here today and have searched out threads that interest me (well they were on the active topics anyway). I've been taught to forgive and I know how hard that is, especially if you are dealing with people like grannydukes mentioned (shitheads, thanks for the laugh). I do agree that forgiveness actually helps you in your life. The ones that you are forgiving probably don't care one way or the other.You'll not forget some things totally, but time really does lessen the sting IMHO.

Your sister! Wow, I'm so thankful that mine is not like that. She's younger by 4 years and was a real pain in the butt growing up, but we're adults now and she's a good person (just really quiet, unlike me)

 3monstmama- your mom made me laugh because she sounds like mine. I used to be upset with her, but now she's in her 70's and I have nothing but compassion for her. She's never had a "good" day in her life, but now that she's not doing well (for real), I just feel terrible for all the times I got impatient with her illnesses, real and fake. She makes me cry for all the "good" times that have been lost through the years.

Anyway, sorry to barge in here, I don't know the protocol for this.  Good luck, God bless, have a great day. And smile, it's an instant face lift!

Anne068

I choose to just not let people get to me.  If I can remove them from my "circle" I do so. If I can't... well. What can you do?

I know what I don't do. I don't take it personally, I don't let them take rent space in my head.   It is what it is. *shrug*. I stopped being hurt by it a long time ago.

 Anne -- TCx4 started 9/14/10; BMX 8/10/10; BRCA1/2 Negative
Diagnosis: 7/9/2010, IDC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-

eileen1955

I could write a book on this topic. this is addressed to no one poster. Just my feelings.

I need all my energy to fight cancer; so I can't waste any on certain people.  I use my imagination to viusalize that these people are a speck of dust in my life.   I do not need their approval or concern.   I don't wish that any harm comes their way; that would be a total waste of my karma.

I hold no expectations of certain people. I don't waste energy on them. I let it all go a while ago.

I hope I don't sound preachy. It took me a L-O-N-G time to get thru this process. I had a mastectomy last week and never told my mother.  B/c I have to do what's right for me. she puts her needs b/f mine; so why set myself up for disappointment?    I just had a friendly online chat with her.  She is just not capable of empathy. It's how her brain is wired.   It is what it is.

3monstmama

Oh eileen1955, sending virtual hugs your way.  My mother is the same--complete lack of empathy.  Like yours she has no idea about my breast cancer.  I have come to recognize she is incapable of giving empathy and support so this time, I decided NOT to set myself up.  It has really been good for me though people with mothers who are, ahem, more traditional, are shocked to find out that I have gone through cancer treatment and my mother hasn't got a clue.

I try hard to send metta/lovign kindness the way of the difficult people in my life and to recognize that I didn't make them the way they are and I can't fix it.  And no, its not easy.

take care.

FireKracker

I too have family members who dont have a clue that i have bc.thats the way i want it.ive not spoken to them in yrs.i certainly dont want to talk to them now....let sleeping dogs lie.forgive sure i did that but forget.that i wont do.just stay out of my life and ill stay out of yours.I think bc is a crude wake up call.forgive and forget just dont work for me.

QCA

Y'know, I might forgive, but I don't ever forget!!

Kathy

alexanjb

Perky,

Some people are in denial.  Some people are just weak so they are unable to be strong for anyone else.  Some people have a personality deficient disorder....I believe we learn something from everyone and anyone we come in contact with, even if is learning how NOT to be.  Please don't take the limitations of others personally.  It hurts I know.  But their hurtful ways are really more about them than about you.  Empathy is a wonderful trait.  So is compassion.  But not everyone is capable of it.

ByFaith

I could have written your exact post...that's how similar my situation is.  I think I'd still be fretting over the lack of support from relatives if it weren't for my oldest teenage daughter.  She has such wisdom.  She told me to "write them off" and not to spend any of my time on negative energy, that they weren't worth my time in fretting over "why" they forgot me while complete strangers were being supportive.  She, DH and my BC counselor also stressed how important it is I spend this time dwelling on positive things. My daughter taught me to see it as a blessing, an opportunity to see who our true friends really are, and I remind myself all the time. I still ask for the ability to forgive them and hope I have truly done so. 

The greatest gift that has come out of their ignorance has been the gift of knowing how much even a simple hug can mean from a near stranger. How I've been treated by loving people who at least try to understand or provide support is a beautiful role model.  I thought I was kind and sensitive to others before, but I'm much more attuned to how I treat others now and that's a very positive thing for me, too.  

darCraig

Perky, and all - what a great topic.  There is a lot of "collateral damage" I think from a life changing event such as BC.  We found that out 10 years ago when our son became a paraplegic.  My mother in law is totally incapable of empathy  - everything is about her.  When our son was hurt, it was just like her back pain.  She doesn't say that she has bc, but at 87 has started wanting 2x yearly mammograms.  The last one, she apparently came home and told everyone that it was "very bad".  My sister in law (who is a nurse) read that report, which commented on breast density.  At 87, I don't think bc should be a big worry for her, but since my diagnosis it is - but, when she WAS actually ill last year, she checked herself out of the hospital when she was already prepped for a colonoscopy!  Totally ignored it until she couldn't any more - very strange!  And the whole family was raised to revolve around her.  My husband has broken away, but some have not, and I must say that I recieved very watered down attention from them when I was getting treatment. 

My family  - my dad and sister - ,my mom died the spring before I was diagnosed - are not good with emotions.  During treatment, I was often disappointed with them.  When I had a second mast and reconstruction 2 summers ago, I was really having a rough time -seromas, the port slipped and I need 2 extra surgeries, on and on.  I told my dad outright that I needed more support, and said that I needed to tell him I was hurt, because he's very important to me, and I didn't want to just be mad and not say anything.  He was good about it - not defensive - and I know he tries to do better, but being a 76 year old male, he's never going to be mr. sensitive.  My sister phoned me that same day - dad had talked to her.  She told me that she can't imagine being without me and how much I mean to her.  

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that it is a journey for everyone.  Some people we need to be honest with - we need a dialogue.  With some people that is not possible - they can't hear us (I believe my mil has a personality disorder,and probably substance abuse as well).  Either way we need to take care of ourselves.

All the best - let's hold each other up, because this is hard stuff.   

rubyredslippers

Im with you Jancie. Agree 100%.

I wont forgive some people for what they put me thru when my treatment ended. Namely one selfish competitive bitch I work with who shit on me, and treated me badly, but thought I should fall all over her everytime we had to talk.  Another women is a bully and jumped at every chance to have a go at me over something...the stress and anger this caused me during this extremely difficult time in my life is unforgiveable. As is a terd of a brother who made well meaning but thoughtless and insensitive comments, then came home for Xmas and wouldnt swim in the pool whilst I was in it, and never makes any contact with me...As Jancie said, I wouldnt choose him for a friend, and I dont want anything to do with him. Just how I feel. Im not the forgiving kind. I still go thru emotional hell every day due to breast cancer. I wont forgive the people who happily added to this burden

BMac

Sometimes you just have to cut your losses.  It's amazing how cruel people can be when you need their support the most.  Case in point, my two sisters and my former "best friend".  I've detailed the transgressions on other threads...won't bore with you the details but it's given me the strength to cut these toxic people out of my life and I don't miss them one bit.

The good thing was the people I didn't expect anything from.  Two high school friends that I hadn't seen in years came and took me out for lunch half way through my chemo.  We still get together with another lady who joined our group shortly after.  The "Fearsome Foursome" are getting together later this month.

I visited an acquaintance last week who has stage IV lymphoma.  She's the wife of a high school friend of my husband and I see her socially once a year at a mutal friend's Christmas party.  I was totally shocked when she told me about an old friend of hers whom she hadn't seen in years.  When this lady was in the hospital (ICU...long story) this old friend came to visit everyday, bringing her fresh fruit.  She said to Linda "Make sure you let me know when you're going home.", so she wouldn't show up and Linda wasn't there.

In the confusion of going home Linda thought her sister had phoned the lady and the sister thought Linda had phoned.  Now the friend won't talk to Linda and, in fact, told her off for not letting her know!  Linda has stage IV!  You cut people some slack when they have a life threatening disease.  I'm appalled that anyone would treat her this way. 

It really does boggle the mind how cruel some people can be.

3monstmama

Bmac, hey my mother cut off one of her best friends of 50 years when the woman had BC with mets to the brain so nothing surprises me in the self absorbtion market. . . .Per my mother, friend hurt her feelings by saying smoking was a nasty habit and that when my mother smoked and then came in the house, friend could smell it and it made her feel ill. . . . my mother never spoke to woman again . . . .mind boggling to my way of thinking...

kickazz

I have been going through the same thing with my family.  Its like when I first got the diagnosis everyone was saying they would help... I think only 10 percent came through.  I get angry at the lack of support and also people complaining about the day to day stuff without cancer.  Also, I think it is like its over for them even though I am still going through it.  I am the oldest and always took care of of my brothers and sister... then I became a nurse and took care of others.  I have never been so disappointed in people- my siblings -in my entire life.  It really sucks.  The good thing about it is u find out who are truly your friends!

Alyad

3monstmama, your mom reminds me of my mom, she was telling me about how one of her lifelong friends from high school was mad at their whole group of friends because none of them had come to visit or offered any help while her husband was in the hospital seriouslly ill.

I wanted to ask- well why didn't any of you (who are all retired now and live in the same city...) go visit or offer help? I had friends visit, make us meals and offer help when we really didn't need it after my surgery.

My mom just thought her friend was being self centered and helpless- thought her husband had always coddled her and waited on her and now that he was in the hospital she was mad cause she had to actually do things for herself... And what's worse it seems all five or so people agreed- maybe those things are true but not to go visit at all? I guess they thought if they offered help they'd be stuck actually helping their friend.

 I am sensitive to cigarette smoke too and a lot of my friends smoke, but they are all usually very considerate of someone who is bothered by it. I think ANYONE who smokes needs to realize it really bothers some folks and not to take it personally, they can't help it!

BMac

Yes, you sure do find out who your true friends are, Steph.  I too am the oldest and I think my sisters were so used to my being the one doing things for them that it didn't even occur to them to do anything for me....not even pick up the phone when I was going through chemo.

Wow 3mons, that's something about your mother.  Some people think everything's about them.  I really think that some people lack the empathy gene and there's not much you can do about that.

perky

I have been trying for months to figure out the anger and indignity feeling that keeps coming up and I think I have it. Forgive me for being overly dramatic and cheesy.

I was raped.

Cancer invaded a personal part of my body and violated it. And even though I am physically doing OK, it is going to take a while to come to terms with the shock and horror of it all.

If I were a real rape victim would my brother say in a really flip tone that I will be fine? Would my sister insist on telling me about women that had it worse or say that it was just date rape as if it doesn't count as a real violation? Would my "friend" who was raped years ago act so angry towards me? Would certain friends still cut me off in conversation afraid that I might say something with emotion? Would anyone that I just casually know feel OK to ask in full detail what happened and want to see the scars?

Before I was raped by cancer, I was pretty modest. Now my breasts are a normal topic of conversation. It's all pretty jarring.  I feel damaged and it's going to take a while for that part to heal.  In the meantine, no toxic people of any kind.

This thread has helped me in so many ways and it breaks my heart to see how not alone I am in this. I am so sorry! 

KansasKay

Jane - you really summed up my feelings.  I hadn't been on this discussion board as I was in hiding for most of October.  The whole pink ribbon thing just makes me even more branded than I do by the scars.  But the whole time I was trying to push down my feelings and they just came bubbling up today so I reached out.  I was at an annual dinner of a non-profit I support yesterday.  The people who haven't picked up the phone or emailed in months are suddenly peppering me with the "How ARE you?" question.  I smile and say I'm fine because I can't stand the glazed looks if I say how I really feel.  Of course I need to listen to how bad their arthritis is or they've had a bad sinus infection!  That is when it is hardest for me to try to "Forget and Forgive".  It's a work in progress but I value the opinions of those who have posted here as we understand in ways others don't seem to be able to do.

BarbaraA

KansasKay - I hear you and here is a cyber {{{HUG}}} for you. I get it.

Maya2

I let them go--my entire immediate family. It was devastating the way they treated me--and some ignored me completely. But none of them cared.

I believe it was Maya Angelou who said: "The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them."

Words I now live by.

barbiecorn

Wow Maya2 - that hit home!!!  Why is it that people leave when you need them most!!!

chemoangel

What comes around goes around my dear, just remember that. I TOO Suffer from an incurable disease that nobody understands. And I always get "It Can't BE there is nothing you can do about it." OR "There HAS to be some kind of cure for it, you just don't know where to look!" OR "You need to change doctors, that one doesn't know Nothing!" Etc.etc. 

I am the same as imbell and choose to ignore.