Nuclear Injection pre-surgery
Hi All,
Did anyone else have the 4 nuclear injections into their nipple pre-surgery? I had a lumpectomy right breast on Dec 16th and on the 15th I was sent to the hospital Nuclear Department for the injections so that the hand held geiger counter my surgeon uses could pick up the lymph nodes. The nuclear stuff gets sucked into the lymph nodes and the result, I was told, is that less tissue is scooped out when removing the sentinel nodes.
Until the day before, I thought the nuclear injections were like what happens in a CAT scan - intravenous type. No biggie. The night before I found out from the nurse coordinator that they are 4 injections into the area around the nipple at 12:00, 3:00, 6:00 and 9:00. And THEY HURT big time - like having acid injected into your boob. Then I had to rub my boob to help with uptake.
This was medieval torture, I think! They did put numbing lotion on prior to the injections and the radiologist apologized six ways to Sunday "I'm so sorry, I know this is painful" but I'm still upset by this -- I think this is exactly the type of stuff you need to be given either some sort of local or put out. I asked the radiologist if they did this sort of thing for prostrate cancer -- of course not!
Anyone else experience this (and, geez, I hope not)?
Comments
-
I share your sentiment on this procedure. This is the process for the sentinel node biopsy. I had a 'tag team' of two radiologists - good guy/bad guy. This was done just prior to my lumpectomy, so I had a very full day of procedures. It was interesting that these were the only two males that I've had so far in this journey.
While it was not a process I'd care to repeat, it seemed the better alternative to having the axillary node dissection - my lymph nodes were clear.
-
i had that with my lumpectomy with snb - but my surgeon didn't do them until i was completely out under general. they put in my iv line, then i went into the operating room, they pushed the anisthesia, i was out like a light in like 1 breath. are you getting local or general? my breast was also pretty numbed up because my lump was done with wire & they had already numbed the thing to oblivion.
-
i had that with my lumpectomy with snb - but my surgeon didn't do them until i was completely out under general. they put in my iv line, then i went into the operating room, they pushed the anisthesia, i was out like a light in like 1 breath. my breast was also pretty numbed up because my lump was done with wire & they had already numbed the thing to oblivion.
i can't believe that some dr's do that without putting you out first! or at least giving you some major major numbing injections. i knew that it was supposed to be painful so i had discussed it with my bs before & said that i had a low tolerance for pain and that it was a MUST that they put me out with general for the lump / snb.
-
I had the injection the day of surgery...I understood the necessity and would much rather have 3 nodes removed then a dozen or more that they would have removed in the past but I really hated that no one explained to me how long the wait between injection and imagining was. I was totally not prepared for the two hours of sitting in some out of the way room waiting for the nuclear dye to drain into my nodes. Thankfully, although the injection burned, I did not experience the pain you described and I am sorry your experience was so painful. It is so frustrating that no one really explains what is going to happen, but then again sometimes it is easier not knowing...it is a double edged sword isn't it?
-
I had that done also..but for some reason, mine didn't hurt..wonder why?
-
Hi O2bhealthy,
I agree not knowing is sometimes helpful in lessening anxiety but I wish someone had given me more information and not so last minute. This way I could have thought about it and said I wanted some happy juice prior to the injections.
And, I totally get why this procedure is better than scooping out all the lymph nodes and tissue, but it isn't a procedure that should be done without some anesthesia choices. Besides the physical pain (which did subside after about 2 minutes), there's the emotional issue of injecting stuff into your nipple. I couldn't look. And, I don't think the numbing gel did much - I taped on both nipples prior to the injections to see if they felt different....and they really didn't.
SoCalLisa, I think you were blessed that it didn't hurt. The radiologist stated to me before injections, "You know these are painful, right?" and the nurse coordinator also told me they were painful. So, I think by their warnings to me that your situation was more unusual than usual.
I haven't seen any information on these injections in any postings and in any materials. I wish I had seen/read something prior to my experience. The silver lining is that after that experience, I figured if I could stand the acid boob test, I could stand anything they could throw at me!
Thanks for responding.
Pat
-
pagowens, there are several threads on these discussion boards about the radioisotope injections used for SNB. SNB is now standard procedure for women who are presumed to have early stage BC and have no clinical evidence of spread to the axillary nodes. So, pretty much any of us who had SNB had those darn injections.
I have to admit that I knew less about the SNB injections than I did about almost everything else related to my diagnosis and treatment. My BS (surgical onco) had told me there would be two types of injections -- a radioisotope and a blue dye. She said she would remove any nodes that were either radioactive or stained blue or both; and there would probably be (on average) 2 or 3 such nodes. I ended up having 3 "sentinel" nodes removed.
Because of the way they do things at the cancer center where I've been treated, I was given the radioisotope injections on the afternoon before my early morning surgery. The injections were done by a radiology tech in the nuclear medicine section of the hospital. She said there would be 3 injections (I think), and although the syringe contained a local anesthetic, they would "sting a little". But, as the first one went in, she said, "I mean, it will hurt A LOT." And, it did. I imagined someone was holding a lighted cigarette on my nipple. She immediately began to apologize ("Oh, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry -- I know this is hurting"); and she said the burning would quit "really soon." It did, after probably less than a minute (it seemed much longer). She rubbed my boob a little, to help move the radioactive stuff into the tissue.
I think that stuff would burn, no matter where they put it. The problem is, most of us got those injections in or near the areola, which is an exquisitely sensitive area of the body. It's full of nerve endings. So, should anyone be surprised, when it hurts???
The second stuff that was used as a marker was a fairly large volume (several ml) of a blue dye. It was injected after I was under anesthesia, which is standard procedure at that cancer center.
Given all the other painful and uncomfortable things that happened to me in the 6 months between my dx and the end of chemo, I would not rank that nuclear dye injection very high on the list. In the top 25%, maybe, but that's about it.
SNB has replaced full axillary node dissection as standard-of-care for clinically negative nodes, though. So it should not take long for surgeons and nuclear med folks to catch on and address the "discomfort" we're feeling. I hope so, anyway. (OTOH, we're still dealing with that pesky "discomfort" from the compression they use during a mammogram, aren't we?)
otter
-
Gosh, that was barbaric. I had mine done, with the wire in the breast, etc. right before surgery, but they numbed my breast entirely - just as they did when I had my biopsy a few weeks prior. I had no pain at all - just psychic pain, as I was awake and even though I wouldn't dare look, I knew what they were doing. I am so sorry for all of you that had to experience this with pain. There is just no justifiable reason as to why some get lidocaine and feel nothing, while others get nothing and just have to grin and bear it.
-
I went through the same thing. My first clue that is was going to be painful was the nurse saying as she is wheeling me into the injection room saying "I am so sorry but this is going to really hurt".
-
I am glad to run into this posting because I had the same painful experience. I had no idea that I would not be twlighted under for it. Never thought about it as I assumed it would be like having an MRI when the surgeon told me his plans during the initial consult. I have never heard any complaints from anyone else with BC that this was what to expect. I was screaming during the injections. It seems so medieval in this day and age to undergo such torture. After the procedure and the needle placement, I was taken to pre-op to put me out. I keep asking, why not give at least xanax to take the edge off. It was one of the worst procedures during this whole thing and wish I could forget it.
-
I had the 4 nuclear injections for my bilateral mastectomy and it did not hurt as bad as I imagined it would. The technician was super in explaining how everything worked which helped to relax me a little bit. I spent the night before sugery in tears worrying about the injections.
In retrospect, the nuclear dye itself was the culprit since it burns as it goes in.
-
I had the same feelings. Luckily, the nuclear technician called me at home to tell me what to expect - PAIN! I picked up some prescription numbing cream from them and was told to slather (use the whole tube) it on and cover the area with the equivalent to plastic wrap about 2 hours before. My injections where like Otter's - done the afternoon before the surgery. I had my biopsy/lumpectomy done a month before and even placing the wire for that wasn't bad. I went to the restroom before the procedure and the tech was waiting for me by the door. I should have know then that something was up and that she was making sure I didn't run away. I had 2 injections on either side of my lump site and the other 2 around the areola. They even had someone there to keep my feet down if needed. I couldn't reach my husband's hand, but he would have lost a few fingers if I was holding his hand. I just put a towel over my head and waited for it to end. It wasn't bad a few minutes later. The entire crew was apologetic and said how well I did. Lisa, you were so lucky not to have pain. At that point in my BC travels I didn't now about Xanax. I would definitely ask for something now since I know better.
I had the blue dye injected the next morning after I was out. It has been 19 months and I still have a large sized "stain" that looks like a blue/green tatoo. It has faded but I still volunteer the explanation before anyone thinks that my dh abuses me LOL. But, as everyone earlier has mentioned, I would rather go through 4 injections rather than risking my health with an AND. I wish I knew about this site right from the beginning. I was already scheduled with a surgeon who only did AND's and found out that I could go with a SNB done by a different surgeon. It pays to do the research.
Pat - just keep coming here and you can find info on just about anything you want to check out. Good luck with your future treatments.
Julie
-
Hi, all...
I'm a 'newbie" to posting on this site, but have been a reader here since last October.
And soo glad to have found this site!
About the nuclear injection: I had that done to me on Jan. 7, 2010 and had outpatient Sentinel Lymphnode Biopsy same day.
NO ONE WARNED ME ABOUT THE PAIN these injections cause! They were done by a male Dr. As it turned out he was the same one who caused me loads of pain three weeks before when I had a wire inserted before my lumpectomy. There was a lot of bruising then but that was nothing compared to the bruising from the nuclear injection! Believe me, THAT man will NEVER lay a finger on me again!
Has anyone else experienced severe bruising from that injection?
Now I am supposed to go for radiation treatments, have my first appointment w. radiologist tomorrow. The way I feel right now, lots of breast pain, and still lots of bruising, there will be no radiation any time soon!
This whole mess is finally getting to me, this has been hanging over my head for three months, not knowing what exactly was found...three different biopsies, different diagnosis from different people ( NP,PA, nurses, surgeon ) everyone had an opinionthey just had to share. I am listening to the surgeon, but have a hard time forgetting what the others said. Maybe, with time, that too will get better.
Thanks for listening, I plan on posting in a more positive manner next time.
-
Hi all. This is my first time posting to the site- have been mosly reading and learning!!
I had the radioactive injections, but the dr. injected a little lidocane first. Didn't feel a thing! He even did it while I had the needle locs. in earlier that morning. I feel bad for all of you that had a bad experience, because it didn't need to be!
-
Hi all,
I talked to a woman w b/c who went through the same injections three years ago. She still considers it the worst experience of the entire treatment. She feels that research should be done to make the experience less traumatic and awful - I agree with her. She also felt that the insurance companies don't want to pay for any anesthesia or sedatives for this test. I'm going to call my insurance company and ask how you get the protocol to change.
Thank you all for posting. And, for those of you who also experienced the pain, I'm so sorry we had to go through that. It has proven to be the worst part of my experience to date as well.
Pat
-
Inki - is there any chance that the bruising is actually the blue dye coloring your skin? My surgeon said the dye could discolor my skin for about 6 months. It has been 21 months and I still have the discoloration - not as bright as earlier, but still there. It is now the color of a green/blue tatoo. I have to explain whenever I get checked out that I don't have an abusive husband. I did have a lot of bruising in my armpit area from the SNB. Went from under the arm around to the front of my chest. Just lovely.
Don't worry about the negativity/positveness of your posts. Some days you just have to vent and this is the perfect place to do it. We "get" it, when others don't so rant away. We've all had similar experiences so we will be glad to help you out. As far as knowing what is going on - do you have copies of your pathology reports from both procedures? If you do, you can even ask us questions about them. Sometimes doctors can be wrong or miss something. You have to stick up for you and don't quit until you are satisfied with the answers you are getting or until you feel your questions have been taken of.
Come back whenever you feel like and take care - Julie
-
To all sweeties reading these posts. Some of you had a very difficult experience, some not so much. My sympathies to everyone who found the procedure agonizing and terrifying. Here's how mine went, which is not to say it is the same as anyone else's experience has been or will be. After reading these posts I was horrified and sickened. I talked to my surgeon about it, and asked him to tell me what he planned to do for the pain. He said the pain level has to do with how the injections are done. If they are slow, it hurts less. He said I could ask him to stop for a moment if need be. The combination of trust in this wonderful man and the little bit of control offered calmed me down. The nuc med guy who handled preparation of the substance and hypodermic thingie (tiny tiny short needle) was very sweet and said my Dr was the gentlest of all of them and tried to alleviate my concerns without making light of them. A nurse was there to hold my hand, which turned out not to be necessary but she was nice to talk to and said she hoped that "when her turn came" my doctor would be around to do it. So, it seems that choosing a surgeon who "gets it" and cares (let's face it - one who gives a darn) and has experience and patience and good tecnique makes all the difference in the world. Speak up. Demand good care. Good care includes pain minimization. Any doctor who dismisses your concerns should be forced to listen and do the right thing. It is no joke. I was ready to simply bolt after reading the posts here. The people treating patients as if they are just meatloaf or hysterical time-wasters need a head's up. -
I'm a huge suck and after reading about this procedure, I told my BS that the only way they were going yo do that was if I could take something to relax me-she gave me Ativan and it worked really really well! My husband was in the room with me and couldn't believe how calm I was, I think he was more nervous! I asked about being numbed first and my nurse said that in her experience it would be like getting twice as many needles in the nipple, so because I was so relaxed (thanks Ativan!) I told her to just go ahead and inject. I think if you can ask for something to take before that will lessen the pain and or fear-why not?!
-
I can't imagine having this procedure done this way. I think it is barbaric. Fortunately, mine was done while I was under anesthesia while I was having my lumpectomy. I just don't get it. Sorry you gals had to go through this procedure while you were conscious.
-
I have to get this done tomorrow with my Lumpectomy scheduled for Tuesday. I had not even thought about it since my lump is not close to my nipple. I will talk to my care coordinator at my BS office tomorrow and see what alternatives I have - from numbing the area first, some sort of relaxer to take, or just doing it on Tuesday when I am out cold! When I got my biopsy, she had to go in from the side due to my breast implants (the tumor is very close to the surface) and I remember the probe she put in there stung my nipple and it hurt big time! This was after they told me the biopsy is "nothing".
-
Hello everyone, I had to have this done a couple weeks ago when I went for my lumpectomy and when I was getting prepped for surgery they put a cream with a patch over my nipple and part of my breast so when they took me to have the Nuclear injections I felt NOTHING!! thank you Lord because I have to say I was very nervous about it. It might be something you can ask your surgeon about. Best of luck to you. Hugs to all
-
debster,
Sounds like you had EMLA cream. My surgeon prescribed it for me and I applied it myself about 1 hour before the injections. I didn't feel a thing. I think that for those who have the injections prior to surgery, this is a good way to go. EMLA is great for numbing areas before IV insertions too. It is a topical lidocaine/prilocaine.
-
I had the nipple injections and didn't even feel them. The radiologist said the radioactive dye was mixed with lidocaine. I was scared to death it was going to burn.
-
I'm really surprised to read this. My injections were done during surgery after I was put under with anesthesia. I would be asking my surgeon why it can't be done that way.
-
jc254,
There are great differences in timing with regard to these injections (this is the nuclear tracer). I know a certain time has to elapse after the injection is given, but it seems to be decided by the surgeons preference. I had mine done late in the day before an early morning surgery, I also had lidocaine in my injection, but had used EMLA cream so didn't 't feel a thing. Some women don't feel it much or at all but for others it is painful. At the very least, there should be lidocaine in the injections and I recommend EMLA.
-
That is the cream exbrnxgrl and I highly recommend it! I had to have my injections one hour before my surgery.
-
My injections were the night before surgery and the intern(?)/Dr. doing the procedure seemed surprised it was not excrutiating as the lady before me experienced a great amount of pain. It was uncomfortable but not unbearable so maybe they don't do this under anesthesia as each person can have a very different experience. I also remember wondering at the time if being 'handled' repeatedly for months had made painful/tender seem normal.
-
I spoke to my BS office today and I will have this two hours before my surgery tomorrow morning. I was concerned after reading this thread and conveyed that fear to my care coordinator. She said they include lidocane in the injections and have never had anyone complain about it being painful. I asked about the cream and she sad they don't prescribe anything.
We will see! -
My breast was already numb from just having the two wires put in to guide the surgeon to the old biopsy markers -- which were all that was left of where my two lumps had been prior to neoadjuvant chemo. They did the shots about an hour before my surgery. I didn't find the shots painful at all. When you are laying there with two long wires with masking-tape flags at their ends sticking out of your breast, I doubt there is anything else that will surprise or hurt you.
Carol
-
Yes, many women don't find the injections to be very bad at all, however some find it very painful. Giving anaesthesia , either general of light sedation, probably poses more risks than the injections themselves. At my facility, these injections are done by techs in the nuclear medicine department. The same folks who do the nuclear trace injections for scans. They seemed very experienced. The lidocaine certainly helps, but I don't see why anyone is hesitant to prescribe EMLA, though it's a bit pricey even with insurance.
Categories
- All Categories
- 679 Advocacy and Fund-Raising
- 289 Advocacy
- 68 I've Donated to Breastcancer.org in honor of....
- Test
- 322 Walks, Runs and Fundraising Events for Breastcancer.org
- 5.6K Community Connections
- 282 Middle Age 40-60(ish) Years Old With Breast Cancer
- 53 Australians and New Zealanders Affected by Breast Cancer
- 208 Black Women or Men With Breast Cancer
- 684 Canadians Affected by Breast Cancer
- 1.5K Caring for Someone with Breast cancer
- 455 Caring for Someone with Stage IV or Mets
- 260 High Risk of Recurrence or Second Breast Cancer
- 22 International, Non-English Speakers With Breast Cancer
- 16 Latinas/Hispanics With Breast Cancer
- 189 LGBTQA+ With Breast Cancer
- 152 May Their Memory Live On
- 85 Member Matchup & Virtual Support Meetups
- 375 Members by Location
- 291 Older Than 60 Years Old With Breast Cancer
- 177 Singles With Breast Cancer
- 869 Young With Breast Cancer
- 50.4K Connecting With Others Who Have a Similar Diagnosis
- 204 Breast Cancer with Another Diagnosis or Comorbidity
- 4K DCIS (Ductal Carcinoma In Situ)
- 79 DCIS plus HER2-positive Microinvasion
- 529 Genetic Testing
- 2.2K HER2+ (Positive) Breast Cancer
- 1.5K IBC (Inflammatory Breast Cancer)
- 3.4K IDC (Invasive Ductal Carcinoma)
- 1.5K ILC (Invasive Lobular Carcinoma)
- 999 Just Diagnosed With a Recurrence or Metastasis
- 652 LCIS (Lobular Carcinoma In Situ)
- 193 Less Common Types of Breast Cancer
- 252 Male Breast Cancer
- 86 Mixed Type Breast Cancer
- 3.1K Not Diagnosed With a Recurrence or Metastases but Concerned
- 189 Palliative Therapy/Hospice Care
- 488 Second or Third Breast Cancer
- 1.2K Stage I Breast Cancer
- 313 Stage II Breast Cancer
- 3.8K Stage III Breast Cancer
- 2.5K Triple-Negative Breast Cancer
- 13.1K Day-to-Day Matters
- 132 All things COVID-19 or coronavirus
- 87 BCO Free-Cycle: Give or Trade Items Related to Breast Cancer
- 5.9K Clinical Trials, Research News, Podcasts, and Study Results
- 86 Coping with Holidays, Special Days and Anniversaries
- 828 Employment, Insurance, and Other Financial Issues
- 101 Family and Family Planning Matters
- Family Issues for Those Who Have Breast Cancer
- 26 Furry friends
- 1.8K Humor and Games
- 1.6K Mental Health: Because Cancer Doesn't Just Affect Your Breasts
- 706 Recipe Swap for Healthy Living
- 704 Recommend Your Resources
- 171 Sex & Relationship Matters
- 9 The Political Corner
- 874 Working on Your Fitness
- 4.5K Moving On & Finding Inspiration After Breast Cancer
- 394 Bonded by Breast Cancer
- 3.1K Life After Breast Cancer
- 806 Prayers and Spiritual Support
- 285 Who or What Inspires You?
- 28.7K Not Diagnosed But Concerned
- 1K Benign Breast Conditions
- 2.3K High Risk for Breast Cancer
- 18K Not Diagnosed But Worried
- 7.4K Waiting for Test Results
- 603 Site News and Announcements
- 560 Comments, Suggestions, Feature Requests
- 39 Mod Announcements, Breastcancer.org News, Blog Entries, Podcasts
- 4 Survey, Interview and Participant Requests: Need your Help!
- 61.9K Tests, Treatments & Side Effects
- 586 Alternative Medicine
- 255 Bone Health and Bone Loss
- 11.4K Breast Reconstruction
- 7.9K Chemotherapy - Before, During, and After
- 2.7K Complementary and Holistic Medicine and Treatment
- 775 Diagnosed and Waiting for Test Results
- 7.8K Hormonal Therapy - Before, During, and After
- 50 Immunotherapy - Before, During, and After
- 7.4K Just Diagnosed
- 1.4K Living Without Reconstruction After a Mastectomy
- 5.2K Lymphedema
- 3.6K Managing Side Effects of Breast Cancer and Its Treatment
- 591 Pain
- 3.9K Radiation Therapy - Before, During, and After
- 8.4K Surgery - Before, During, and After
- 109 Welcome to Breastcancer.org
- 98 Acknowledging and honoring our Community
- 11 Info & Resources for New Patients & Members From the Team