I need a mentor

Held

I feel like such a hypocrite or a fool.  Here I am questioning all these things and I have a bible verse as my tag line........ 

Spewing still to come.... .  I am still a little bit nervous about it, so I have  to find a way to word things a little more delicately.

swimangel72

Held & Faith - not to worry - I truly appreciate your humor and don't take offense! Laughter in my heart is another of the good gifts from God! And even after I wrote the word "saint" I knew it would elicit a joke or two because of the traditional meaning of the word. My interpretation of the word "saint" is more in line with people like St. Paul and St. Augustine, very intelligent men who's faith was tested, worn down, chipped away, buried and forgotten until through God's grace, they found it again like a shining jewel.

Another book that I found very interesting in my own journey is "Eat, Pray, Love" by Elizabeth Gilbert. Has anyone else read it? Her discussions of the power of meditation is very interesting to me - and her discussion of "bliss". To my knowledge, she's never suffered BC, but she has insights and practicality into faith that are easy to read and identify with. I even enjoy reading her web site (especially her thoughts on writing - her words about self-forgiveness are excellent:  www.elizabethgilbert.com

Held - by wrestling with your faith - by expressing your thoughts and doubts here - I hope God's grace will help the women here help you - and that the result of such a discussion will be a blessing to all of us. The opposite, of course, is all possible (remembering yin/yang) - so I hope this discussion won't turn others hearts away from God or become negative in any way. God bless us, everyone!

Held

Boy swim, that is something really heavy to lay out there.  I certainly would NEVER want to cause anyone to turn their hearts away from God.  I am  more hesitant than ever to lay it all out there.  Sigh....

badboob67

Held,

I understand your reluctance. These are hard issues! I would be happy to converse with you via pm if it makes you more comfortable. I don't know if I have what it takes to help you here, but I promise...no judgement!

((((HUGS)))
Diane

swimangel72

True Held - the good/evil thing is a heavy package - we must choose wisely in life, in seeking help for ourselves to "first not do harm" to others. I need to remind myself about the power of my own words in real life every single day, sigh, especially as a mom. 

FEB

Did you ever read the book "Joshua and the Children"? I read it a long time ago, and heard the priest who wrote it say something that I will never forget: "Religion often keeps people from being religious". It really hit a note with me. How many people do we all know who go to church all the time who never walk the walk? And how many people do we know who are always there for others but have never walked into a church? Sometimes each religion can become so unaccepting of others, that they never see their own arrogance. Look at the radical Islamic movement.  I even have a hard time with Christians who truly believe that anyone who does not believe in Jesus will not be accepted into heaven. We are all Gods children, just as Jesus was, and though we may follow different religions, it is how we show our faith that matters, not who or what we believe. This is what this book is about. I have never been able to accept the fact that Jews will not got to heaven, just because they do not follow Christ. So I am not a churchgoer. But I have a deep faith that grounds me and got me through bc. I prefer to pray in the god given places on this earth. Today, we had an incredibly perfect,  beautiful day. One of those perfect fall days when it is still warm, but has a hint of a fall breeze. The sun is shining so happily that it just makes me so thankful I am here to revelle in it. I took a long bike ride in the forest preserve and meditated as I rode. I just kept wishing I could wrap up this day and send it to everyone still going through what I did last year at this time. So I am sending this beautiful day to you all. I hope you enjoy it as much as I have. There will be many more beautiful days ahead. Remember, "only count the sunny days"!!!!!

hostanut

HELD!

     SPEW FORTH!   We're waiting here to help, not to stone you!!  There are lots of gals from many different perspectives in the way they've handled this, and are willing to help.  That being said, if you'd rather have more of a 1:1 relationship with someone, we certainly won't take offense.

Take care, and I hope you can vent and have your questions answered.      Nancy

Held

Ok, here goes:

In some of the books I have read, and some of the things people tell me I feel like people's explaination for God not answering our prayers is sort of a cop-out.  He really can do it, He really wants to do it, but He chooses not to do it because..... and that's why you are not healed. For example - because not doing so will Glorify Him later.

Others give me reasons why my prayers are not answered and it has to do with "rules".  Such as you didn't ask God for forgivness before you prayed or you needed to fast or some other thing (that I can't remember).  I am so far from perfect that there is no way I can follow ALL these rules, therefore how can I expect God to answer any of my prayers?

Also, my parents taught me that I need to read the Bible daily.  I know in my heart I should be doing this, so I set a plan for myself.  Such as read ____ chapters a day.  Before long, I find this to be a chore, not a joy and I stop doing it. 

Do I sound throughly confused or what??!?!?!?!??!

kerry_lamb

Held, remember that the 'rules' you mention were written by men, not God. Nothing you do can make God love you more. Nothing you do can make God love you less. It's your 'human-ness' that God loves most.

LindaMemm has given us a beautiful insight into how we must live. God did not create a beautiful paradise for us just to have us sit inside and think, think, think! We need to get out (in all weathers) and experience creation and others. Look for the '5-minute miracles', as I call them. Seeing opportunities to contribute happiness to someone else's day. I got goosebumpy, Linda! Thank you!

hostanut

Held,

      Kerry hit the nail on the head, saying God doesn't love you any more or any less by what you do or don't do. Religions based on rules drive me crazy, as I believe it has more to do with our personal relationship with God (Christ) than any rules.  I love it when I see "God things" happen, and they have nothing to do with any kind of rules.  Kerry calls them "5-minute miracles."  Whatever you call it, He's at work in our lives all the time, and I believe when things don't turn out exactly as we think they should, we're putting Him in a box.......our human box.  Every day I wake up I thank Him for a new day, because I know every breath I take is God-given.  I feel I should be reading the Bible every day,too, but in my human-ness I often neglect doing so. ( I don't know if being in a Bible study is an option for you, but I've found times in the past that it makes me delve into what's there, and gives me a circle of friends to talk things over with.) We are ALL imperfect and we can't do it on our own, so don't beat yourself up over that.  That's why Christ paid the price for us.......because we're ALL imperfect beings.  I know you're a nurse, as am I, and sometimes it's difficult to meet others at their place of need, when you're feeling rather needy yourself.  But to help others at their place of need (even on this forum) can be one of those "5 minute miracles".   I pray that you'll be able to feel less conflicted and able to move on, shedding whatever guilt you may feel. Don't let religious rules rule your life!! (They didn't do the Pharissees any good!!)    Take care.......Nancy

faithandfifty

No. I don't think that you sound thouroughly confused at all.

You are wrestling with deep questions.

I personally am not a "rules" person and certainly NOT when it comes to getting our prayers answered. I think that there are many ways in which we can pray and that some will lead more easily to feeling heard.

My own challenge is not to treat my prayer life as a "Dear Santa" list...... 'and I want this and that and this and that..... and please tie it up with a bow and leave it in my livingroom, with the batteries included.'

I feel that in my prayers I can be completely honest as I pray. "Dear Creator, I certainly don't understand what purpose this situation serves in my life.... I deplore the options in front of me, but will use your guidance to get me thru."

I personally have never prayed for "healing" from a disease such as BC, diabetes, epilepsy, Parkinson's or anything of more or less involvement. I have asked for guidance thru my issues with BC. I do pray, "Your will be done." I also ask for understanding and insight, for wisdom. I ask for support. I ask for courage. I ask for strength.

I certainly think that you've opened significant issues.

There are HUGE differences between individual churches -- even within the same denomination. I have given myself permission to go 'church shopping' to find a setting where I feel supported and encouraged by my attendance.

I'm falling asleep while typing..... sleep deeply, new friends.

badboob67

Ugh...the "rules" and religiosity can sure get in the way of a healthy relationship with our creator! I think that, sometimes, religion can serve to distance us from God rather than bring us closer.

As for answers to prayers and why there is suffering in the world,  those are valid questions and not really all that uncommon. When we try to understand the big picture from our vantage point, it can surely feel like God is ignoring us or letting us suffer needlessly. The thing is, He can see the WHOLE picture. He does have a plan, Held...and sometimes that plan allows for his children to suffer--yes, sometimes even horribly so. I can tell you that some of the most difficult experiences in my life have also brought about a great many blessings--some immediate and some much, much later. 

As parents, we want our children to be happy and have their heart's desire....but many times have to say, "No," or discipline when we'd really rather just indulge them. We do this because we know better....we have a broader perspective and know that, even though our kindergartener would no doubt enjoy eating only hot fudge sundaes for a week and staying up all night watching cartoons, that allowing him to do so would only be hurtful in the end. Understanding that the big picture where God is concerned is really more than any of us can fathom, trusting in His love and Wisdom can be difficult. Sometimes what we experience as a totally negative thing is sometimes necessary to get us to the place we need to be...for our own good.

I feel similarly to  faithandfifty about praying for healing. I pray more often about accepting God's will and for the strength to face whatever struggles I may encounter. God doesn't promise us a ride on easy street...in fact, he says in the bible, "WHEN you have trials" not "IF you have trials." And, lots of times, drawing closer to God can infuriate the enemy enough to attack us. Satan would like nothing more than to "win" back one who has given his or her heart to God. 

The only "rules" that exist that are of any consequence are those that God gives us in the Bible. He speaks to us through its pages. If you approach reading His word as though it were a homework assignment, you will miss out on the personal message he has there for you. He does give us a "template" for prayer in The Lord's Prayer in Matthew and Luke. "Our Father, which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name..." Well, that suggests that we are to begin our prayers with praise. "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done," suggests that we are to submit to His will. It is only after praise and submission that requests such as forgiveness and our "daily bread" come in. When you do read the Bible, it is good to say a prayer before doing so--asking that your heart be open and receptive to whatever it is He needs you to understand. At different times in my life, I have read the same passage and have gotten quite different ideas and feelings. The Holy Spirit will guide you as you read; you only need to ask.

I'm afraid I have let my answer get a little off track here. I do hope that you find something here that is helpful to you. One passage I have found that seems to apply is Matthew 14:22-33. It is a story that illustrates what can happen when we keep our hearts focused on God. 

(((HUGS)))
Diane

traceyz

Held,

I am so glad you reached out and started this thread. These wonderful ladies have been so helpful to me as well. It's all about healing isnt it, not just physically but emotionally as well. Thanks for being brave enough to ask for help.

Tracey

pinkpig

Held, I doubt there is not one of us that have not had the questions and doubts you have.  It is so hard in Christian circles to be transparent and let your doubts and stuff hang out.  Christians are as human as everyone else and can sometimes be quite boneheaded in their thinking. I know because I used to be one of them on a regular basis. I thought I had a lot of answers and was quite judgemental to those that didn't agree.  I'm hoping God has worked enough in me that I'm only boneheaded on a rare occasion. I think 'rules' are humans trying to make sense of God, instead of God stepping in and making sense to us.  There are things here on earth that we will never know the answers to and that is hard.  I think we live in a fallen world and crap like cancer happens.  The best part for me is that I have a savior full of grace, compassion, love and acceptance that I can literally run to.  I often imagine myself in God's fortress and satan's lies and arrows are bouncing off the walls.  Satan will do anything to get us to take our eyes off of God - what better way than to have us feel we have broken some 'rule', or God isn't who he says he is just because we are sick.  Held, God knows you have doubts, yell at Him, scream at Him, He can take it all and will never, ever, ever stop loving you. I find reading psalms confirms my believe that God loves us no matter what because David certainly pushed away from God at times.  I commend you on your transparency.  Not many Christians are comfortable in questioning God because of fear of judgment.  That to me is what is wrong with a lot of churches today.  Keep on questioning and wrestling with your faith.  If I could remember anything I'd add an inspirational bible verse here.  I'll blame chemo brain, although it's probably just laziness that I haven't memorized even the verses that mean the most to me.  I agree with Traceyz, it is all about healing physically, emotionally and spiritually.

Gay

faithandfifty

wow. a heartfelt wow.

held. the responses above from Diane and Gay -- take my breath away: compassion. healing. caring. tenderness. mercy. grace. encouragement. example. forgiveness.... all expressed right here on my computer screen.  

i hope that your fears about sharing are eased by these incredible posts. as Tracey concurs, we can all benefit from holding each other up from our unique perspectives.

blessings to each and all who have added to the conversation and to those who may 'just' be reading along -- nodding your head in agreement.

many thanks to this site for giving us the opportunity to reach out -- whatever our questions may be.

Held

Ahhhhh, now I feel like we are getting somewhere!  Big hugs and kisses to you ladies. Gay and Nancy, your words really spoke to me and brought me great comfort. I was just about to give up on this thread. 

Faith - your comment about those reading along made me curious.  I went back and looked - we have had over 800 "looks".  I do hope this is helpful to others. 

Gay - your comment about boneheaded Christians really cracked me up!  Thanks, I needed to laugh!

At one point I was reading a Psalm a day, but sometimes found myself going "Huh???".   I am such a literal person, I might as well be reading Greek. Very frustrating.

I struggle with the whole "discipline" issue as well.  There are people out there that really hurt other people (rape, murder, steal, etc.) that don't have body parts chopped off or have poison run thru their bodies.  Sometimes they even seem to prosper.   To me that is like having my straight-A student daughter do all the household chores, while her sister gets to kick back with her feet up (in her new shoes) and goof off all day after she broke my favorite vase.  Does that make sense? 

FEB

.

kerry_lamb

Gay's got it right (and all of you have, just by being here!): wrestle with your Faith. It's a living, interactive thing. It's not something to be 'understood', it's something to be explored and..well..wrestled with.

Most of the time peace washes over me when I thank God, rather than ask for things. When I am scared of all this, or over all the tests after tests, I marvel at the skills of the medical profession and the wonders of science: all this is there for little old me!

May peace wash over you all today, girls, especially you Held. 

badboob67

I've had a rough couple of days and didn't make it in to church this morning. I happened upon a broadcast of a local church and was thrilled to find the pastor was talking about the same issue: suffering and how it all squares with God's plan. I just had an ear-to-ear grin when he announced he would be teaching from Romans 8:28 today. It's my favorite verse and is so appropriate: "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."  The pastor also referred to James 1:2-3. The message I heard this morning just built on what we are talking about here and was very encouraging.

Held, you have been on my mind and in my heart; I continue to send up prayers for you (and for all the ladies here!). Hang in there...

(((HUGS)))
Diane

Held

I was a bum and didn't get to church today either - not that this is much different than recent weeks.  Don't even want to think about how long it has been since I have been there - sometime this summer.  Woke up, laid in bed for 2 hours, got up fixed breakfast, sat on the  couch and fell asleep for 2 more hours.... UGH!  No wonder my house looks like a pig stye!  Actually calling my house a pig stye might be giving pig stye's everywhere a bad name!

Thank you everyone for your prayers.  I think I am going to read james 1:2-3...

badboob - is 67 the year you were born?

I am curious about the praying "for" things.  I do pray for healing, but I also pray for protection for my children, or a safe flight for my parents....

faithandfifty

heading to bed......... Diane, we must have been seperated at birth...... my favorite verses, too!

held..... i'm glad that you had a restful day.

i've been thinking about 'our conversation' all day.

i realize that it's not that i don't follow rules in this life, but i certainly don't believe in "formulas" for receiving answers to prayers/healing/good luck.

i'll have to figure out how to articulate the thoughts rambling around in my brain.

held. i slept thru church this morning, too. i heard church bells ringing and decided that my angels felt i'd be better suited to the extra sleep. i'm battling some sort of allergy/cold crud and sleeping seems to bring some relief.

just wanted you to know that you're not the only one.....

hugs friends. sleep deeply.

badboob67

Yes, "67" is the year I was born.

I'm having a bit of a rough morning...will post more later.

(((HUGS))) to all!

Diane

Held

Bad - I hope your day got better! 

Faith - atleast you didn't sleep IN church!  LOL

Hope everyone had a wonderful Monday. 

saint

I just read to catch up & all I can say is AMEN & HALLELUJAH!!! There are some deep people posting here & this is the work of the Lord!

I believe more damage has been done to peoples' spiritual lives in the name of RELIGION than any other force-------if a "church" judges or excludees you it is NOT HIS church!

When I asked why the atheist was healed & I was not my priest said, "Maybe she needs it more than you do........." Think about this one for a long time!

When I think that ALL things are possible with God I KNOW I can be healed & spared, but then I remember that even when he begged from the cross Jesus was not spared. What makes me any more deserving than HIM?

Cancer is my God-job. IF I do it well He will leave me here longer......my personal prayer is:

To know Him: to show Him-----to know him well enough that people SEE Him in me & want to "Get some of what I have" that keeps me dancing inspite of the beast!

Keep asking & answering here---the greatest holy people thru time have done the same.

Hugs-be well & stay strong

Marsha56

Held and ladies,

I know for a fact that we all "question what God's plan is" I have been blessed with a Pastor that i can and have told him in not so nice words.. what the hell is he trying to teach me?? I have been a warrior for 12 years I was given 6 months. I now have Stage IV mets to my liver, bones and nodes in my neck. I have been in the hospital for 7 weeks this summer not even related to my cancer. I have coded on the table three times.. I asked my Pastor " I starting to think he dosent want me or maybe I am not good enough for God. His answer was maybe your too good and he needs you here!" I thanked him for that, it was much better then what I was thinking. Held if your faith had not been shaken I would have been worried, no one that faces cancer and does not think of that question. Yes I know the power of prayer I am a miarcle an some days I forget and have my'pity party' but hey that's okay. I sorry if I am rambling but wanted to share. Feel free to PM me if you want.

MarshaB56

jansdaughter

Held, I admire your courage to start this thread.  This is a wonderful wonderful thread.  I think you brought up things noone else had the courage to say and for that bless you.  This thread is awesome.  I hope you ladies don't mind me jumping in.  My mother passed away from breast cancer a year ago.  She told me once she thought her prayers stopped at the rooftops.  She never once asked God why?  I did though, many times.  I was mad.  I was mad at God, the doctors, anyone whoever treated her the past 7 years.  I have moved past that.  What got me through is my favorite verse:  Trust in the Lord with all your heart; and lean not on your understanding.  In all ways, acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths.  Proverbs 3:5-6. Some days I could only get to Trust in the Lord.  He has gotten me through this past year and only Him. 

Held, I think that you will find ALOT of people question their faith, question God at some point in their lives; they just won't voice it.   Thank you for being brave.  Blessings to you all.  Dianne 

Held

Wow Saint - what incredible insight.  Never even thought about Jesus not being spared...

Marsha - holy cra*!  You must be an incredibly strong woman!  I am glad God still needs you here, and I am sure your family is too.

Jan - I am so sorry  to hear about your mother. Maybe you can help me (or anyone else) figure out how to let go of some of my anger.  My mother tells me that it is a choice.  It may be that simple to her, but not to me.  Of course my mother has lived for almost 40 years more than me.... she has more experience!  So how did you move on?  How do you keep your focus on Him? 

faithandfifty

Held. Saint's a real keeper.... and now we have Marsha and Jan added to those ealier, too. 

I'm sure grateful to come to this thread, where there are several who are willing to drop their masks and facades and wrestle with what is significant in the midst of trials & challenges.

My sorrow this evening is observing fireworks and emotional outbursts at close-range. My immediate family is having a melt-down..... well not exactly my immediate, immediate family.

[Everything between my DH & I is hunky-dorie, only he's gone and I miss him already.]

I never had a lot of grit for family turmoil, but post-dx, I have like no capacity...... so seeing people I love & care about in an emotional bruhaha of tears and accusations just breaks my heart. Literally. My heart hurts tonight.

Now how does that fit here? what does it have to do with faith......

What exactly are we to learn from the lessons at hand? All that 'love thy neighbor as thyself" good stuff is certainly hard in the midst of a shouting-match, soap opera. Even when you're just an observer. Especially a soap-opera that is driven by fear.

Glad to have you dear ones in the midst of my sorrow.

Haven't had a really good cry for a while. I'm overdue. That always cleans my emotional backlog.

Held. Didn't mean to make this all-about me..... just wanted you to know that I'm grateful to you for opening up an avenue for sharing. 

kerry_lamb

The point about Christ not being spared is an excellent one. I have never been able to get my head around the thing about God picking and choosing who to take, make suffer etc.

Did any of you see The Passion of the Christ? I watched it at a special pre-viewing put on by my (Catholic) church. I sat in a group of mostly 17 /  18 yo boys from my workplace (a school). At the end, they sat weeping openly, as did the South American refugees and most of the audience. I was so powerfully affected I was worried about my ability to drive home.

We talked informally at length in the theatre about Christ's illegal arrest, imprisonment, horrific torture and murder. This, as the boys and the South Americans pointed out, still goes on every minute in our world. We reflected upon the message of the purpose of Christ's death (as separate from the resurrection).

I feel to this day that his death was a wake-up call to me to step out in faith and WORK against the suffering in our world..even God's son was not spared that suffering. My 'purposefulness' is so strong that I can distance myself from the 'why me?, why her?' cancer headspace..although, that self-talk is do deeply human and natural!!  (What else can we be??)

Love to you all. (See the movie if you missed it...takes courage, though.) (You've all got that!!)

PS Faith, peace be with you and your family. Remember: everything changes. XX 

FEB

Kerry, It was good to see that the Passion got a better reception there than it did here. The press panned it and Hollywood made a joke out of it. It is really sad. Oliver Stone can put out his garbage and it wins awards, but if a Christian does it, forget it. What happened to Mel since then? He is probably still laughing all the way to the bank.

Faith, it must be really hard to deal with family meltdowns in the midst of your own health issues. The one thing I learned going through this, is that I cannot change those around me, I can only change how they affect. I have a house of men, never had sisters, lots of brothers and I got no support from them at all (except my husband). My father never even called me once. At first I was really mad, but then I just decided that they were not worth it. I needed to just take care of myself. It is hard to ignore them but sometimes it is the best for everyone. They will get over it and then feel like fools. It is fine for you to vent here. There is no reason why you always have to be the giver. You have helped so many others with your inspirational thoughts, it is time you sit back and feel it returned. My prayers to all of you.

And do not forget to spread the word to pray for those with BC on Nov. 1st. Please visit that thread if you haven't done so. We want to send the message around the world to see if the power of prayer can do something better than all the pink stuff.