The Respectfully Republican Conversation
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People think Bush the First was great and that Clinton was as well --- but most all of their success was due to Reaganomics. Clinton benefitted from policies in place before him. The Cold War was over --- USSR no longer existed and he was able to reduce the armed forces and the bases which meant a huge economic boon for America. How did he think we should spend our savings? By giving all Americans a home!!!!!!!!!
Ok, Bush comes in ... he now has to take the hit of someone else's decisions! Yes, the debt increase while he was in office but it was not his decision to change Fannie and Freddie!! It was not his command to the banks to figure out a way to let more minorities and low-income into the home ownership sector of life. Bush did not come up with these bad loans.
Bush did spend money unwisely in the war --- imo ----- they did the surge way too late. The surge worked, but it should have been sooner so we can get out!!
Charts and graphs showing whose administration accrued the most debt is misleading. Why not tell the truth about which policies got us in this mess!
WHO WHO WHO!
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Thanks Saluki ... I did spend some time reading the links you provided.
Bren
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Some are concerned about charitable giving being down 20% or more. Well, that's what happens when those of us who work for a living lose our jobs and homes. We have nothing to give anymore. Just where do they think those gifts come from? Sort of bites you in the butt, heh? Be careful what you wish for. I'm just saying....
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Shirley,
Like you I strayed to dead zone.....such great statements that torture is well documented and link to a nut job site called American torture.com....The person is question on the torture is the last detainee that would be eligible for return to England... 2/3 of detainee's have been returned but this one is deemed to dangerous. The AT site claims he was just a poor refugee that lost his past port an borrowed a friends to fly to london.
Here is his CV
He was arrested in Pakistan as he tried to board a flight to Britain in April 2002 travelling on a false passport, the US government says in its charge sheet (pdf) against him.
The Pentagon alleges that Mohamed, an Ethiopian national who claimed asylum in Britain when he was 16, travelled to Afghanistan in May 2001 and attended terror training camps where he was lectured by Osama bin Laden.
It says he trained for city warfare and fought on the Taliban frontline against Northern Alliance forces in Afghanistan in late 2001.
He went on a bomb-making course and travelled to Pakistan where he met and conspired with Jose Padilla, a US citizen and former Chicago gang member who was last year convicted by a federal court of conspiracy and material support for terrorism.
While in Pakistan, Mohamed and Padilla discussed the feasibility of constructing an improvised dirty bomb from instructions they had read on a computer, it is alleged.
Prosecutors claim they also discussed plans to attack petrol tankers and spray nightclubbers with cyanide.
Senior al-Qaida leaders in Pakistan then allegedly ordered Mohamed on a mission to attack high-rise flats and petrol stations.
His torture is claimed under the rendition policy...A policy of Bill Clinton...finally stopped by the Bush Administration....A fact that dems tend to forget.
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Laura
Thank you....Maybe you are the good Laura
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You know what's so funny. Eight years of President Bush was not bad for our economy, but the dems keep saying it's his fault. We had a thriving economy, low unemployment. Then the housing bubble popped. When the republicans saw a problem coming they should have stomped their feet, yelled..but no...they were passive and then came the crisis. They didn't warn loud enough! So, yes, they are to blame also. How many of us heard the republicans warning about Freddie and Fannie. As far as I know not many until AFTER the collapse. And, PBHO was in on this. He trained ACORN. He received the 2nd highest contributions from them in his short US senate seat. He funneled $800,000 from his campaign money.
IMO, it is very important to listen to every word that man says. He's clever. He chooses them carefully.
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Someone needs to tell Obama and the Dems that taxing us to death only removes money from the economy. Someone needs to tell them that increasing gov't programs like Welfare only costs more money.
There need to be programs to help people who fall on hard times ... not people who become legacy receivers of welfare or career receivers. We do need to stop spending. Stop Spending!! Get out of Iraq, get out of all the other countries we are in and focus focus focus on our economy and get a handle on illegal immigration and the costs of educating and providing health care for foreigners. Feed our kids first, educate and retrain our people. If we worried about the USA, we'd have money to spend to weatherize federal buildings.
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Then the housing bubble popped. When the republicans saw a problem coming they should have stomped their feet, yelled..but no...they were passive and then came the crisis.
Actually, didn't John McCain warn about this BEFORE the collapse???
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ibcspouse wrote:
His torture is claimed under the rendition policy...A policy of Bill Clinton...finally stopped by the Bush Administration....A fact that dems tend to forget.
So, we need to go after Clinton?
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Famous gaffe by Biden...30% of this may not work (stimulus). Obama made fun of his own VP. Who knows what Joe was referring to...HAHAHA
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Yes, the repubs and McCain did. I've posted multiple YouTube videos of this. However, it never went to the floor for a vote. The repubs just gave in to the dems. The dems were defending Freddie and Fannie. I also posted the video of O'Reilly blasting Barney for what he said about Freddie and Fannie. It was quite funny to watch Barney squirm.
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What Obama needs to do is to explain to the American people just three things:
1) What exactly does he think was the cause of the current financial panic if not over-borrowing, unsustainable household and national debt, and reckless government housing policies, along with too accessible amounts of capital?
2) Why would outdoing what we did - borrowing, spending, printing cash - be a Zen-like fix of the problem?
3) Why, after seeing a hasty bailout result in messy consequences, would a hasty stimulus not result in messy consequences?
Rather than give us hysterical proclamations about catastrophes, depressions, and disasters Obama should help us to not repeat what got us into this mess. Whether it was Democrat or Republican policies or the combination of them all .. this President who is not afraid to admit mistakes to Iran and the other Arab nations, this President who says he makes mistakes in picking cabinet members, needs to be honest with all of us as to the clear and direct causes of our crisis. If he can admit from the Oval Office that he made a few mistakes, doesn't he think we can tolerate hearing that Bush, Bush and Clinton and Congress made serious mistakes while in power? What's wrong with setting the record straight and saying things will change? Then change! Don't lie and tell us about change and then not deliver!! He is playing politics and partisanship the same way they've always played it. When you add up what Obama himself has said, what Pelosi (aka Queen Medusa) and Reid have said, and what various cabinet members have voiced (farming doomed here in California?), either the U.S. is about ready to explode, or its leaders have become unhinged.
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The new free credit up package....Up to 1 trillion dollars to help US taxpayers get non morgage loans...
Let's see...the stimulus package cost about 250,000 dollars per possible job that will pay about 25,000 dollars. Now let spent 40,000 dollars per family so they can get a high interest rate 5000 dollar credit card....Brillant, Simply brillant...
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Here's some, Sherri.
Now listen to the lies.
And let make sure we let the dems continue to blame President Bush for this economy. EVIDENCE FOUND!!! Clinton administration's "BANK AFFIRMATIVE ACTION" They forced banks to make BAD LOANS and ACORN ..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivmL-lXNy64&feature=related
Timeline shows Bush, McCain warning Dems of financial and housing crisis; meltdown
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM
NOW LISTEN TO BARNEY LIE WHEN O'REILLY INTERVIEWS HIM. Quie funny. One must feel sorry for Barney.
Bill O'Reilly Attacks Barney Frank 10-2-08
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I wish I had the Prez...Glib tongue..I have tried for 2 months to convince Cam that a new set of Golf clubs would be a great investment and hedge against inflation...Her reasoned argument has been a certain digit on her right hand. I don't think she means it's the number one best idea of an investment.
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IBC, smart woman you have there.
I don't even know what to say anymore. I think I need to stop listening to all this pundits. Getting depressing. But I will continute to LISTEN to every word Obama says. However, I couldn't listen to him in florida. Why did Fox show all of his "town meeting" in Florida. Everytime I tuned in he was still talking, so I tuned out. Obama's at his best when he's telling people that "our" government is our only HOPE to getting out of this mess. YES WE CAN! CHANGE HAS COME!WHOWHOWHOWHOWHOWHOWHOWHO! $$$$$ $!
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You're kidding me about the lady asking for a new kitchen!! There has to be more to the story than that? Is it gov't housing with a dilapidated kitchen?? Or is it a bad landlord? Or is it her house??? Oh Gosh, I hope he said for her to go to work like I do when I want things for my house. Maybe we should have a town hall and I can ask them to paint mine since I can't afford to do that.
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WE ARE HOME!!!!! Praise God, we got home around 1:00 today. She had a pretty good day yesterday. She ate cocoa puffs cereal, a ham & cheese sandwich, and about 8oz frozen yogurt. May not sound like much, but considering what she has been through, we'll take every bite with gratitude and praise.
It was probably a little bit much as about 10:30 last night she began to get nauseaous again. She held it off till about 12:30am then we went ahead and called the nurse in. She woke up about 5:30am sick again, we got more meds, and she has been good every since. I am not 100% convinced they have diagnosed her correctly, but she is still so, so much better than last week.
I am not gonna lie, I was terrified I was going to lose her last week. Her G.I. doctor told us Friday, after he had put in her feeding tube, that he couldn't believe she had made it that long with out food. She had deteriorated to the point of being in critical condition. She was a whopping 77 lbs this morning! I am so thankful God is allowing me more time with her. I am humbled beyond measure that God wasn't ready to call her home!
Thanks again for all the love, prayers, calls, emails, and PM's.
Maybe all these surprise illnesses are behind us now...................I say this because I didn't even celebrate my one year anniversary as a BC survivor on 2/1/09! I am going to white out February on the calendar........ -
We refinanced our house while Olivia was in the hospital: 15 yrs @ 4.85%!!!!!! The bank let Mark bring closing papers to me at the hospital!!!!!!!
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Just wondering if anyone here is aware of the changes to healthcare hidden in the "stimulus" bill? According to a report on drudge, these provisions will change healthcare as we know it. The report quotes excerpts from Tom Daschle's book where he says that Americans need to get used to accepting a bad prognosis instead of running up medical bills and research bills trying to find cures. Those are not exact words, but close. Basically the article states this is a stealth plan to give government more control over doctors making decisions. It is portrayed as a "IT plan" to digitize medical records. It is very frightening from my viewpoint, as I hope to utilize any and everything availalbe to beat this cancer. I am planning to write some congressmen about this, although the two from my state voted against the bill already. It's amazing to me how blindly many Americans are in accepting this bill without actually knowing what is in it. God help America!
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TJW -- yes, saluki and suz posted about this horrendous situation. It's amazing that we are being told to be more like Europeans and accept the more difficult dx instead of wanting to be treated.
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Moody girl, so glad you are back home with your baby! She must be over the moon to be back in her own bed!!!
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TJW, I am concerned about the nationalized health care hidden in this bill too. Obama keeps saying how great it will to everything computerized, but I see that already. All of my medical records were sent between my doctors and I did not like it one bit. Every time I sat in an office there was my mug shot on the computer. And they put all those photos of my breasts on there, before and after. Well anyone knows that any info on a computer can be hacked. I can just see it now, on youtube, the deformed breasts videos!
MrSpouse, tell Cam I think she should get you the golf clubs, as long as you promise to walk the course, and not whimp out in a cart. Tell her I will throw in free lessons for her so you can play together. I am not a great golfter, but a pretty good teacher. At least that is what my friend said after she spent $$$ on a pro and still could not hit the ball. I told her a few things and she connected!
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California already has the records online and accessible for the providers.
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It may get interesting!
An increasingly tough sell
Before his stimulus plan passed the Senate in a 61-37 vote, President Obama's approval ratings far outweighed those of his $838 billion bill. Which is why, in the last 48 hours, he traveled to hard-hit Elkhart, Indiana, to host his first town hall since becoming president, returned to D.C. to host his first news conference, then flew to Florida to promote his plan alongside Republican Gov. Charlie Crist. A push for bipartisanship (the bill garnered only three GOP votes from all of Congress)? A PR spree for America? More likely, both. As the House and Senate dig in for what will likely be tough negotiations on a final package, Obama is working hard to save the stimulus in the court of public opinion.
A recent poll by Pew Research Center found that a narrow majority of Americans, just 51%, support the stimulus. And that's down from 57% in January. Even worse for the administration, support seems to be dropping among people who say they've learned more about the stimulus:
Notably, support for the proposal is now much lower than it was in January among those who have heard a lot about the economic stimulus. By 49% to 41%, those who have heard a lot about the proposal now see it as a good idea; in January, those who had heard a lot favored it by more than two-to-one.
Furthermore, a poll from Rasmussen reports that 62% of voters want more tax cuts and less government spending in the plan. This must be music to the ears of Republicans, who have been on a media blitz of their own, arguing for the same. Newly elected chairman of the Republican National Committee Michael Steele wasted no time in explaining why he thinks his party should vote no.
"The fastest way to help those families is by letting them keep more of the money they earn. Individual empowerment: that's how you stimulate the economy."
On "Face the Nation," Sen. John McCain took a few whacks at his former opponent's stimulus bill, calling it everything from "a setback to change" to "not bipartisan" to "generational theft" to "fundamentally bad for America."
It's not just lawmakers who are working to change the package. Conservative public policy group Americans for Prosperity has become a huge Search spike on Yahoo! after circulating an online petition and sending an open letter to the U.S. Senate urging "no" votes on the stimulus.
While on the campaign trail, Obama's speeches were often crucial in turning a negative story his way. With public opinion waning, his recent treks to hard-hit American towns may be just the stimulus his stimulus plan needs.
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Feb 06, 2009
WASHINGTON - As President Obama prepares to announce revisions to the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP), the American Financial Services Association has published an open letter encouraging the president to keep consumers' "everyday borrowing needs" in mind by allowing consumer finance companies to benefit from the new guidelines."Our hope is that your administration will support an expansion of the Term Asset-Backed Securities Loan Facility (TALF), whose objective is to increase credit availability for consumers and small businesses by facilitating the issuance of Asset-Backed Securities (ABS) backed by auto loans and leases, floor-plan financing, student loans, credit cards and small business loans," wrote Chris Stinebert, AFSA's president/CEO. "While TALF is a step towards restoring market liquidity, we believe the program's current eligibility requirements will prohibit most finance companies from participating ... Absent the ability to participate in TALF, many financial services companies, especially those within the auto industry, would not be able to finance consumer loans for products and purchases essential to the nation's recovery."
In addition to providing access to TALF funds for qualified finance companies, AFSA wants the president to require any banks that accept TARP funds to guarantee they will keep those companies' bank-provided lines of credit open.
The full text of the letter can be read here.
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What's interesting, Paulette, is the way Obama is going after people in townhall meetings trying to get approval for this package. I am stunned that Crist is going along with it. I know Florida has been hit hard and that's precisely why he's picking such states. I wonder how many older folks have heard that they will be killed off if they become ill, so it won't make any difference about their finances.
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LISTEN UP LADIES
I have put up with a lot on all kind of discussions on this board but Vivre has gone much to far.
WALK the golf course....NeverEVER link Golf, fishing, drinking or sex to exercise...
Have you no Heart.
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Let's talk about TORTURE! I'm not a very sympathetic republican. But being a republican explains it all...we're mean..we don't care about anyone but ourselves...we don't care about the poor...just send them to a dumpster to get food. $$$$$$$
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123362332302441815.html#printModeCongress's Phony War on Torture
Why not ban waterboarding once and for all?
By WILLIAM MCGURN
When Leon Panetta comes before the Senate Intelligence Committee on Thursday about his nomination to head the Central Intelligence Agency, he ought to be asked tough questions about the things he's said about torture. And he will.
At a time when key congressional Democrats are backing calls to investigate Bush administration officials for war crimes, it would help if our elected representatives first answered the tough questions themselves. But they won't. And therein lies the key to understanding contemporary congressional morality.
For the past few years, no word has been more casually thrown about than "torture." At the same time, no word has been less precisely defined. That suits Congress just fine, because it allows members to take a pass on defining the law while reserving the right to second-guess the poor souls on the front lines who actually have to make decisions about what the law means.
Last February, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid thumped loudly when they sent George W. Bush a bill that would have limited the CIA to the interrogation techniques found in the Army Field Manual -- knowing full well that he would veto it. Now they have a Democratic president who says he shares their views. So why not send him a bill declaring once and for all that waterboarding and other interrogation techniques constitute torture?
Manifestly our system of government gives them the right to do so. As CIA Director Michael Hayden noted in a speech to the Council on Foreign Relations in September 2007, the "CIA operates only within the space given to us by the American people. . . . That space is defined by the policy makers we elect and the laws our representatives pass."
Of course, defining that space would require something in short supply in Washington: an adult conversation. In such a conversation, good men and women could present the case for enhanced interrogation without having their words twisted and finding themselves held up in public as latter-day Torquemadas. Such a conversation might also begin by examining the reigning assumption of today's debate: that context and circumstances have nothing to say about what we call torture.
This is not the reasoning we apply in other areas. Consider a police officer who kills a criminal in a justifiable shooting. We do not call that murder, because the circumstances surrounding the act determine our judgment of that act. If that's true for something as serious as killing, is it really impossible that similar reasoning might apply to interrogation practices that leave no permanent physical or mental damage?
At times, even critics inadvertently make the point. When it is argued, for example, that Navy Seals have undergone waterboarding as part of their training, the response is, well, waterboarding someone as part of his military training is different from waterboarding someone in custody. Yes: Of course it is. In the real world, circumstances and context are crucial to our moral judgments.
While we're at it, let's forget about the theoretical ticking time bomb. Instead, consider a real assertion: Leaders in our intelligence community have declared that the intelligence gained from enhanced interrogations of high-value terrorists have helped save innocent lives.
You don't believe them? Fine. Bring in the people who know -- behind closed doors if you want them to speak honestly and avoid spilling classified information. And then come to an informed conclusion.
In a better day, Congress would allow the executive branch a great deal of latitude during a time of war. We, however, do not live in a better day. In our day, senators and congressmen call for inquisitions of people who operate within a vague torture statute that Congress could easily clarify if it wanted.
A year ago, the Speaker of the House expressed herself thus: "Failing to legally prohibit the use of waterboarding and other harsh techniques," she said, "undermines our nation's moral authority, puts American military and diplomatic personnel at risk, and undermines the quality of intelligence."
So what's stopping her? The ban President Barack Obama has put in place is not a law but an executive order that can be reversed. This order came, moreover, with a huge back door in the form of a "task force" that will study whether eliminating waterboarding and other enhanced techniques will affect our intelligence needs.
If Mrs. Pelosi and Mr. Reid believe their own public statements that waterboarding and other techniques are both torture and ineffective, they ought to incorporate their words into a law that takes these practices off the table forever.
That, of course, would mean a vote that would force lawmakers to face up to the real-life consequences of their actions -- and submit those actions to the judgment of the American people.
And as Mr. Obama is learning, the one thing that frightens Congress more than al Qaeda is accountability.
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