cancer is not a disease, but a survival mechanism

PSK07

"and I have come to one inescapable conclusion. Once you are complete with your treatment, whatever you choose, and you continue the lifestyle that created the environment where cancer can grow, I would be willing to bet that your chances of a reoccurrence are going to be astronomical. Do everything you feel is right to avoid that situation... So ladies, do us, the spouses, a big favor, do whatever you feel is right, to change your lifestyle, so that you do not have to suffer this disease again"

My last comment.

Erik, I certainly feel for you and for all your losses and the trials you are going through. It is more than any person should ever have to deal with.

The day my husband or my children (when I'm old and dotty) tell me what to think, how to think, what to eat or drink or do with my body is the day I pick up my toys and go home - and vice versa. My body, my life, my choice. I do what I think is necessary for my health, which is keep doing what I've been doing for yonks.  By saying 'change your lifestyle' you are still saying that I caused my cancer; that there is something to change. I will not accept the blame.

And I'm done. Take care.

erickcarpenter

No NO NO... you took that the wrong way Badboob57, I meant that in a PLEASE fashion, not as a negative thing... not in any way. I am in essence pleading that those afflicted with this disease do everything that you feel is right to reduce the risk of it coming back. The idea of losing my wife is beyond words, I would like to think other spouses feel the same way.

The same to all you ladies, I do NOT expound that I am to tell you what to do, that is entirely your choice. But consider the elements, whatever you think they may have been, and reduce the risk of this crap ever hitting you again. It has never been my place to tell my wife how to treat her disease, only to support whatever decision that is made.

Erick Carpenter

mimi1030

If it is just a lifestyle change that will prevent a reocurrance, then can someone tell me why my mom who in 2004 was dx with Stage 1, Grade 1, DCIS with .5mm IDC, mastectomy, clear margins, no node involvement, chemotherapy....changed lifestyle, exercise, diet etc...the whole kit and kaboddle....still was dx with Stage 4 mets to the liver and bones in 2007?? Just a question.

erickcarpenter

What did she consider a lifestyle change? What was her choice of change? what did she do to change it? Is there a history of cancer in the family? If so, how severe? What kinds of chemotherapy did she endure? What supplements did she try after chemo, any, none, all? When you say whole kit and kaboodle, what exactly did she do differently? I know that is a lot of questions, but it does make a difference as to the results. and there are no guarantees either, simply mitigating the risk to the best of one's ability. And sometimes, it may not work. One has to do what one feels is best and live with those results. and sometimes the results aren't what you would want.

mimi1030

No history of cancer in the family, as far back as 3 generations that we can remember...all heart problems on both sides.....She cut out sugar, caffine, fats....pretty much veggie diet...except for fish....vitamins, calcium, fish oils, caffine free green tea, green juices for the high oxygen/chlorrphyl content, the PH miracle diet, flaxseed, wheat germ...all organic foods......she underwent 4 rounds of adriamycin/Cytoxin....runs a mile + a day....exercises on her home eliptical....swims...her blood PH was alkaline, not a favorable breeding ground for cancer....pretty much did what she thought would be necessary to prevent anything happening...being that she had suposedly less than 5% chance of it returning.  However, it did.  Now she doesn't jump through hoops like before and she is doing great...the chemo has almost put her in remission...just 6mm away from NED.  She stays on the ph diet...but if she wants to cheat once in a while, she doesn't think twice about it...and her blood, tumor markers...PET scans are showing dramatic responses to her chemo....but she does not deprive herself anymore....she did that first time around and didn't get any benefit from it....I also had an a step aunt who died with (what was then early stage) BC because as a scientologist they do not believe in anything other than alternative medicine....it kept her healthy on the outside, she felt great for a while....but eventually when the cancer made its way around the rest of her body, she began to shut down organ after organ.....the world renowned naturalist that she spent tens of thousands of dollars on...could no longer help her....plus I have worked in medicine for 10 years....and have seen the many cases of cancer patients who chose not to seek help from a doctor....when they come to the hospital in excruiciating pain, in the final stages of there lives....I have seen all I need to see when it comes to alternative methods....I have no objections to lifestyle changes and complimentary treatments in combination...everyone needs to be healthy....but I know those things in and of themselves do not save lives on a large scale, not enough to say that this is the way to go.  

We lost a family friend to pancreatic cancer last year....my mom took care of her....we watched her pass....unfortunately they found the cancer too late it had already engulfed the portal vein.....pancreatic cancer is in no scale anywhere near to bresat cancer, no comparison....there is still very little known about it...and the mortality rate is very high as you never know you have it until it is too late.....for her part of it was her lifestyle....she was a former alcoholic...and it is linked to Pancreatic cancer.....but that is not always the case a friend of mine in college had pancreatic cancer also...he was a teenager....so alcohol did not play a role in his cancer....actually he was a strict vegan.....so I have seen many cases up close and personal and all I know is lifestyle can get in the way to someone who is already genetically predisposed to cancer....but the key is here, they were already genetically linked to their cancers.....environment can promote and early onset, but it is not the sole cause of it happening.  My mom overexpresses Her2....she has to many of those genes on her cells.....nothing can stop that fact....even the change in lifestyle would not prevent it from happening....it was there waiting to come out, maybe she did something in the past to bring it out sooner, but maybe not...but regardless it would have shown its face at some point, it was written in her genetic code.....and that is the case with any cancer....it is there all along. 

erickcarpenter

Fair enough, she did what she could to reduce the risk, and it seems that it was not the answer for her. For that I am sorry, I do wish that she had better results based on her choices. and I hope that western medicine can put that in check. I have had exactly the opposite experience with western medicine treating cancer. My mother was diagnosed with advanced but insitu lung cancer (still local to the lung, but in the bronchial tubes) They treated her with chemotherapies for 3 years, and yes it bought her some time, but in the end, it did what it does, and she passed. My first wife was diagnosed with stage IV b pancreatic cancer. She lived 163 days from diagnosis to death. Chemotherapy did nothing. (nor was there any belief on my part that it would, but I supported my wife's choice 100%) I had hopes.... She had no known history of cancer, nor did my mother. My mother smoked camels for 40 years, my first wife smoked for a couple, drank some, but not much. However, her mother was a brittle diabetic. I often think of pancreatic cancer as diabetes gone bad. My current wife, stage 3a breast cancer with 2 lymph nodes involved. never smoked, drank some, never did drugs. Genetically linked? maybe, but I think it is simpler than that. Won't go into that here, if asked maybe later, but I have my hypothesis. I will say this. I had a very personal heart to heart conversation with my first wife's oncologist.

He asked me to open the door to his office and look in his waiting room. It was packed. He then asked me to sit down and said... "I am going to lose 80% of those people out there. Plain and simple. and for the remaining 20% I can't tell you if it is the drugs I am using, their tenacity for survival, or just plain luck". Now, I suppose that man has spent many nights wide awake trying to come to some sense with that knowledge. I do not envy his position.

I also have done my own research on chemotherapy, and its definitions of survival and success with treatment. What I read, I did not like. Nor did my current wife. I too have seen several people, who have gone the other route, where they have tried western medicine and in their late stages, turn to alternative treatments. Some succeed, some don't. There is little logic to it, but each must do what they think is right for them. And it is certainly not my place to say, as I am not the one in the "hot seat".

My wife chose to do a mastectomy, and afterwards, when she talked to 2 medical oncologists, what she heard made no sense to her. (and she was a paramedic for 15 years) She chose to go holistic/naturopathic after an incredible amount of personal research. Much along the lines your mother has done, with a few caveats. This was not an easy choice, but once chosen, we have pursued it with vengeance. So far, so good. no signs but we keep a wary eye.

Anyhow, that is our story, probably more mine than hers, but remember, there may be no single answer to this disease, at least not that I have seen, but based on results, I believe my wife will stick with what is currently working. 

Perhaps as this experience progresses, we can swap notes on what works and what doesn't and make a more effective plan of attack for those "bringing up the rear".

And give your mom our best, to you as well.

Erick and Lynda Carpenter 

paige-allyson

Responding to the link in the original post. I can only respond by saying you might want to read Susan Sontag's "Illness as Metaphor." She wrote the book largely in response to her own bc dx. It's an interesting commentary on these psychologically based theories of why people get ill.

lisametoo

If you believe Otto Warburg got it right in his Nobel Prize winning theory of why a cell becomes anaerobic, this will help lead you to the path of correcting that imbalance:  http://www.naturalnews.com/022815.html

Bliz

Lisa, I know your mother has cancer and that is painful to you, but it is my understanding, you do not have breast cancer.  Am I correct in that? 

Before BC, I probably sounded a lot like you; blithely spouting and trying many ways to stay or get healthy.  And it worked for many, many years. 

But I got struck by the demon anyway.  That is the randomness of BC and should be accepted. 

I hope no serious illness ever darkens your path, but please be prepared that it might, even if it is rheumatoid arthritis at the age of 109. 

And there is a very good chance there will be absolutely nothing you could have done to prevent it.  

Acceptance is a big part of any type of healing or in helping someone else heal. It may be a path you can only traverse when it happens to you.  

Anonymous

Well said, Bliz. 

I didn't want to chime in, but I have been lurking on this post and it's been rather upsetting. 

I did it all the right way.  I was only 31 at dx.  I didn't smoke, drink, eat the wrong stuff, I DID IT RIGHT. 

I still got breast cancer.  I was 31!!!! 

I didn't choose this path, but I do accept it as the Lord's will.  

trigeek

Hi everyone,

After all we are in the 'Topic: Alternative, Complementary & Holistic Treatment' so, if anyone does not believe in what this title pertains to, they can simply choose not to read or check in  any of the threads.

I personally like hearing all different things related to our condition and find it inappropriate when people get personally  'zinged' for putting some information under this thread.

Lets keep things in perspective and respect each other.

Anonymous

Hi Trigeek,
I do hope that comment was not directed at me (since I was the last post prior to you). 

I am interested in seeking natural remedies to help me heal and get well. 

That being said, I am entitled to be upset by some of the posts I have read.  That doesn't mean I shouldn't visit this thread, does it? 

"Acceptance is a big part of any type of healing or in helping someone else heal. It may be a path you can only traverse when it happens to you. "

I quoted Bliz's last line, because that is the part I was saying "Well Said" to. 

I'm sorry for not clarifying that, and if I offended you into thinking I was trying to zing someone personally. 

I've been a member of this board for 2.5 years, and in all that time, I have NEVER hurled out a zing.   

If I took any of your post out of context, I am very sorry. 

Love and prayers, Deb

PSK07

If a tenent of holistic or alternative or complementary medicine is to assume blame for your disease, then I guess I'll stick with good old western medicine.

Complementary medicine is interesting. There is a lot to be said for reducing stress and eating healthy foods and exercising and so on and determining if those things have an impact on disease and recovery.

I happen to disagree with the premise of the title of this particular thread and by a few of the statements contained herein regarding how/why cancer develops. I didn't realize that only agreeable posts were acceptable here - and not a healthy level of debate.

Doing something different post- cancer implies that I did something wrong to begin with - and quite honestly there isn't much to change.

There are a lot of quacks out there trying to separate good people from their hard-earned money with unproven and in some instances dangerous and life threatening 'treatments'. While providing a forum to discuss 'alternative, complementary, and holistic treatments' is great, allowing everything contained in the discussions to go undisputed or unchallenged is not in the best interests of any of us.

Just as Femara, Tamoxifen, AIs, different chemos, rads, recon, no recon, etc. get questions and thought-provoking discussions going, so, too, should the alternatives.

If I've offended anyone, I sincerely apologize. 

erickcarpenter

Pam -

You are absolutely on the money. Regardless of whether it is alternative treatments, or western medicines...

Question everything.

Do your "due diligence" and educate yourself. Each conversation about either route of treatment should be questioned. Your naturopath, your oncologist, whomever, should be questioned about everything they offer, and where they got their information. Then you go home and do your research to see if what they are "spouting" is indeed true for you.

Your treatment, regardless of choice, is very personal. After all, it is your life you hold in your hands. My wife has chosen to follow not only her intuition, but some very hard, cold research. She found her method, and is following it with determination.

My job, as her husband and caretaker, is to support her 100%. I do my absolute best to be her "rock". An anchor that does not move, and gives her something to hold on to in the worst of storms. I may not be able to get my hands on this "enemy", to choke the cancer off, but I can be that support that when she is tired, I can carry her through the rest...

To each of you ladies out there fighting this disease, learn all you can, make your choice, make your stand, and may you have the best of results.

(Was that a rant?)

Erick Carpenter

Anonymous

Pam, the title of this thread also kept me from "entering."  I didn't read the article.  I don't plan to.  We all have problems in our lives.  There's no such thing as a stress free life.  And I don't believe that unresolved issues with whomever is the cause of cancer.

I sure hope any money I give for cancer research is not spent on this type of idea.

Shirey

abbadoodles

I cannot believe this bull---- discussion, which I perceive as between several identical "entities" and some legit members of this board, is still going on.

Go on, throw some rotten apples at me. 

Tina

lisametoo

Hello everyone,

Thankyou for the continued debate over whether cancer is a survival mechanism or not.  I am 100% sure it is.  Over 3000 hours of research has proven this theory to me.  Here is more reading for your consideration:  http://chestofbooks.com/health/natural-cure/Ross-Horne/Health-and-Survival-in-the-21st-Century/What-Causes-Cancer.html

In answer to your question Bliz, no I do not have diagnosed cancer.  But I do have thousands of cells dayly that become cancerous, but am able to overcome because of my body's ability to dispose of them.  If I become too acidic and my PH lowers to the point of a tumor developing, I will amp up my efforts to raise my PH, increase my oxygen levels and immune system to help my body to revert the cells to their proper aerobic respiration and or dispose of those that don't revert with increased activity of the NK cells.  I will do this with the same methods I've mentioned on other threads that my mother is doing, or perhaps try an easier method like the new one I posted on Maple Syrup and Baking Soda.  I may have to try and find that fellow in Asheville, it's only 4 hours from here.  I would really like to see any documentation he may have.  Unbelieveable information I found today! 

Peace and Good Will to All

HeatherBLocklear

Good grief. This has made me sick, especially the Carpenter report of his "heart to heart talk" with his wife's oncologist. In my opinion, it's deliberately harmful to post that sort of crap on a forum of this kind.

I am outraged.

Annie

PS: Pam, do not apologize. You have offended nobody; you've merely engaged in civilized discourse.

AnnNYC

Annie -- I agree about the oncologist story being disturbing.  I hadn't really read that before -- I've just been skimming through here.

But any oncologist who is "losing 80%" of Stage 3a patients ought to be reported to his specialty society.  This is WAY, WAY, WAY beyond the mean 5-year mortality rates for that stage.

rubytuesday

trigeek, I LOVE Sat Dharam Kaur, N.D.  I met her at the World Conference on Breast Cancer in Ottawa in 1999. She is sooooooooooo sweet.  If I lived closer to her, she would be my ND.  I went to several of her sessions and spoke in length to her.  I have her books and also use some of her supplements (which you can order from her website).  Her Healthy Breast Oil is also great and I have used on my foob as well as my boob. Best wishes!

  

I didn't read everyone's comments because I REALLY don't get the hostility either.  We are all in this $hitty place together and if you don't agree, just toss it out and go on with your life.  You aren't going to convince those who do and they aren't going to convince the nay-sayers.  That said, I do believe that there are different causes of cancer some being environmental and some being just plain STRESS of ANY description (including environmental stressors).  Some of us deal better with stress than others...some intentionally deal with it thru meditaion/yoga/mind-body techiniques.  We also deal with it better (or worse) at different places in our lives.  I have to admit that I didn't read the original article because I've read pretty much EVERY theory on breast cancer in the last 10 years of this journey.  I've done a variety of things...some I continue, others I have back burnered and may or may not return to them.  It is a journey, ladies.  We need to help each other, NOT trash each other and exploring new avenues (whether or not we choose to accept them) is not a bad thing because the 'same-old; same-old' isn't working.   Best wishes to all!

HeatherBLocklear

I know exactly why I have BC. It's because I refused to leave the toilet seat up out of respect for my first DH (Nota bene that's "damned husband," not "dear husband"). And I got it in the left breast because my defiant gesture mainly concerned the toilet in the downstairs bathroom that my mother and sister used when they'd come to visit.

OK, I'm out of here before I blow up and say things I'll regret.

Love to all,

Annie

erickcarpenter

Ladies, let me share with you. The oncologist I spoke with did so with my wife sitting beside me. MY FIRST wife who had just been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, NOT breast cancer.

Let me repeat that.

The 80% he was quoting were the total of patients out in his waiting room with every sort of cancer known to man. and my wife, at that time was diagnosed with PANCREATIC CANCER not breast cancer.

Tthe survival rate for 5 years from "pc" is just above 0%. If you don't die directly from PC, you do from the "side effects" of having it, such as starving, blood clots, etc...

The oncologist I spoke to was speaking from his experience of cancer, not some statitician who is fed numbers from studies. Breast cancer is by far, one of those that is more treatable, but in many cases the statistics are incredibly misleading. For a 5 year survival rate, it looks good, until you find out how they come up with those numbers. And I won't quote them here, as everyone needs to have every possible edge to fighting this disease as possible.

If you want to be outraged, do some serious research on what is used for treatment in chemotherapy. How those decisions are made, and how women have been used for guinea pigs for years.

THAT outrages me. The very idea of some da** oncologist more worried about his study than my wife's life. and yes, that did happen with my first wife. MD Anderson was more concerned about the results of the phase 1 trial results than they were for the life of my wife. Over the years I have fumed over that.

Now my current wife was diagnosed with stage 3a breast cancer. and she chose a different path for treatment. And it is working. with no chemo and no radiation. We do keep our eyes on it, not buried in the sand as some do.

So if I have offended, well, guess I will take my lumps. and not sure why this is considered a bullsh-- discussion, everyone needs to see "both sides of the coin" whether they agree with it or not. The catch is not to get overly caught up in the emotion of all this..

To you ladies, regardless of choice, may you have the best of results.

Erick Carpenter

lisametoo

Please everyone, take another look at this article, read it twice.  It says so much that we can find useful in treatment an or prevention choices.  He does mention aerobic vs. anaerobic cell metabolism.  This all goes along with the Causes of Cancer thread.

In the Brightest Light,

Your servant

HeatherBLocklear

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080129200155.htm

paige-allyson

Just a comment on evaluations re: whether one's chosen treatment approach is "working," it's pretty hard to judge that until some years out...like in my case up to 15 years or longer. On statisticians- so glad we have them...for many reasons.

RobinWendy

Argh... just wrote a long post and somehow deleted hit by mistake before I could submit it.  Will reiterate briefly... I go to a alternative/complementary doctor who works WITH my mainstream oncs on fighting my Stage 4 BC.  He believes in Otto Warburg's theory that sugar and refined carbs spike blood sugar too high so that insulin (a growth hormone) is released in high measure to counteract the sugar.  But, he has NEVER counseled me that emotional issues or personality types are a cause of cancer.  He has me eating a diet similar to the South Beach diet and has me on many things related to the analysis of my bloodwork.  He also gives me research on each theory he is espousing before asking me to go with it.  He used to be an onc at sloan kettering but went out on his own because he believed more could be done.  I have been following his regimen for over four years and am doing very well and have never had symptoms of this disgusting disease.  If he ever played the "blame" game with me, I would cease going to him.  So, I think it is interesting that a man who has dedicated his life to use natural and holistic practices while working alongside mainstream medicine has helped keep me alive and healthy with a stage 4 diagnosis for almost 4 years and four months without ever exploring my family conflicts... Everyone must make there own decisions but as for me, I'll take all the help I can get but refuse to blame myself for getting cancer.

Robin

AnneW

Sounds like you have a gem of a doctor, Robin. We need more like him out here in cancer-land. And I'm gald you are doing so well!

Anne

Anonymous

Did anyone click on the link from HeatherBLocklear? 

It really pertains to this discussion quite nicely. 
Good detective work! 

Cynthia1962

Robin - I've recently read about some research that may show that a low carb diet helps prevent cancer due to the production of less growth hormones.  This dr, http://www.drbriffa.com/, has the studies on his blog.  Just check out the category: Women's Health.  I was surprised to see that some findings indicate that even a diet high in animal protein reduces risk of breast cancer, but a starchy diet raises the risk.  

It sounds as if you're seeing a wonderful doctor.

Cynthia 

booklady

Okay, I get the part about causing my own cancer, but can somebody explain why children get cancer - do we blame that on the mother's lifestyle when pregnant?