Presidential debates on ABC right now-both parties

saluki

"Wouldn't it be wonderful if someone like Buffet would run for president, and win."

Anne--Did you edit your comment because Buffet is 75 years old?

Wouldn't be quite the argument about McCain's age.

anneshirley

Susie--you're quick.  Actually, that's not the reason. I edited it because I have such admiration for Buffet that I didn't want to couple my admiration with politics--and thus dirty it in some way. I know there's a big controversy right now in New York City because one of the Wall Street millionaires is giving 1,000,000 (I think that's the number) to the New York Public Library to help with some reconstruction, but the Library has to put his name on the front.  A lot of people object to this, as I do.  The Library is a city and national treasure and no name should be on it.  True charity is giving without looking for credit, and very few people can do that.  But Buffet is remarkable.  I would love to meet him and talk to him.

anneshirley

Any of the non-Wall Street crowd here who doesn't think we need a change of administration might be interested to know how the ordinary folks get suckered every time.  This is from "Business Week":

The Federal Reserve has been put in an awkward position by JPMorgan Chase's (JPM) decision to raise its bid for Bear Stearns (BSC) to $10 a share from $2. The sweetened bid, announced on Mar. 24, is high enough that Bear's shareholders are getting some real value for the company—while the Federal Reserve still risks suffering big losses.

The renegotiated deal is bound to cause complaints that the nation's central bank has been sucked into supporting a partial bailout.

JPMorgan raised its all-stock bid to win the support of Bear shareholders who were threatening to vote no and kill the deal. The new deal does have one feature that slightly betters the terms for the Fed. JPMorgan is now agreeing to absorb the first $1 billion in losses if the collateral posted by Bear for a loan turns out to be worth less than Bear claims. The Fed is on the hook for the remaining $29 billion, instead of the entire $30 billion as originally planned.

In case the sweetened bid isn't enough to buy the support of Bear shareholders, the new deal includes a stick along with the carrot: JPMorgan is agreeing to buy some newly issued shares of Bear Stearns, which will give it more voting power to outvote opponents of the deal. The newly issued shares equal 39.5% of currently outstanding Bear shares. Bear's management, which supports the deal, doesn't have to get permission from Bear shareholders to issue new shares as long as they represent less than 40% of the firm's value.

"Makes the Fed Look Like a Chump"

The New York Fed stepped in to prevent the collapse of Bear Stearns after other firms started demanding it post more collateral for loans than it could afford. At the time, the deal was described as necessary to avoid a domino-like collapse of firms on Wall Street.

To encourage JPMorgan to take over Bear, the Fed, through its New York branch, guaranteed Bear assets that were theoretically valued at $30 billion, but in fact would have fetched far less in a fire sale. The quid pro quo was that Bear's shareholders lost nearly all of their money, receiving about $2 a share in JPMorgan stock vs. a peak for Bear shares in January, 2007, of about $171 a share.

Bear's shares more than doubled on Mar. 24, to 12.05 in afternoon trading, from a close Mar. 20 of 5.96. JPMorgan shares rose 2.4%, to 47.09.

The new deal, at $10 worth of JPMorgan stock per share, is still much less than Bear was worth at its peak, but it's enough to raise questions about whether the Fed has inappropriately propped up the private sector. "[JPMorgan] raising its offer makes the Fed look like a chump to have agreed to the initial backstop. That will vastly increase criticism of the deal," wrote Yves Smith, in his Naked Capitalism blog.

 

saluki

A question--Is there any reason in a State like Pennsylvania why anyone should register as an Independent if they can't vote in the primary since Pa's primary is a closed one.---Why do it?   Anyone?

ijl

Amy,

Inna, I didn't address your proposal because I thought it was a joke. 

I am quite serious here. It's worth noting that Bill Gates became a republican after being a democrat and was pro Bush. See the article below

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2001933975_bushtechies20m.html

Besides I don't see Gates foinf around and saying that government should be engaged in mandatory wealth re-destribution.

Where are the liberals from Hollywood here ?

Paulette531

CHICAGO - The new pastor of Barack Obama's church delivered a defiant defense of its retiring reverend Sunday, comparing media coverage of Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr. to a modern-day lynching that resembles Jesus' death at the hands of the Romans.

In a sunrise Easter sermon, Rev. Otis Moss III never mentioned Wright by name, but implied that his mentor, who has delivered sermons in which he likened the U.S. to the Ku Klux Klan and declared it damned for its "state-sponsored terrorism," is facing the same challenges Jesus did."No one should start a ministry with lynching, no one should end their ministry with lynching," Moss said.

"The lynching was national news. The RNN, the Roman News Network, was reporting it and NPR, National Publican Radio had it on the radio. The Jerusalem Post and the Palestine Times all wanted exclusives, they searched out the young ministers, showed up unannounced at their houses, tried to talk with their families, called up their friends, wanted to get a quote on how do you feel about the lynching?" he continued.

The criticism surrounding Wright has not softened the services at Trinity United Church of Christ, where Obama has been a congregant for 20 years. Instead, Moss defiantly defended their method of worship, referencing rap lyrics to make his point."If I was Ice Cube I'd say it a little differently - ‘You picked the wrong folk to mess with,'" Moss said to an enthusiastic congregation, standing up during much of the sermon, titled "How to Handle a Public Lynching."

Wright's sermons were criticized for casting the country as institutionally racist and Obama sharply condemned Wright's remarks as racially divisive in a high-profile speech Tuesday, though the candidate would not renounce the pastor himself. Church officials said Wright, who is now on sabbatical and entering retirement after nearly 40 years of service with the church, was not attending any service Sunday.

Obama and his family were spending Easter on vacation and also were not attending services.

Though the church recently moved a once-prominent section on its Web site about the "Black Value System," the congregation still describes itself as "unashamedly black and unapologetically Christian." A plaque states this prominently behind the front desk.

The sermons Sunday, which kept references to Wright as a common thread, implied that the firestorm over Wright's remarks has taken the church's teachings out of context.

Bishop Vashti Murphy McKenzie, the first female bishop in the AME Church, also delivered a sermon, in which she talked about visionaries like King and Gandhi and "Jeremiah" (it was unclear whether she meant Wright), and argued that their words weren't about "anger," but about "a passion that demands confrontation."

"The purveyors of information are trying to be judge and jury over prophetic utterances," she said.

The church program handed out Sunday also included an essay called "Not on My Watch" from the Rev. Samuel B. McKinney of Mount Zion Baptist Church in Seattle. McKinney said he was "greatly disturbed" by the "media feeding frenzy that has tarnished everyone in the process."

"Dr. Wright represents the best among us ... An attack on this man of God is an attack on all those of the cloth who believe in the social Gospel of liberation. And I will not stand for it," he wrote.

Moss issued several pleas to congregants to donate to what he called the "Resurrection Fund," stressing that during this time of battle, money is needed to defend the church. He offered no additional specifics about the fund, telling churchgoers he didn't want to get into it because Trinity is streaming the service live on the Web and the services are available for purchase on DVD.

He concluded with another analogy, saying, "In order to crucify him you've got to lift him up ... he had more visibility on the cross than he did during his entire ministry."

FOX News' Jeff Goldblatt contributed to this report.

ijl

Hi annehirley,

In your example of country A and newcomers, presumable someone like me, youd did not mention that the newcomers are paying a lof of taxes some of which are going toward poor people who were born in country B. It is also not clear how come poor people from country B are able to stand on their own feet after recieving a small stipend from the government of country A which is not the case for native citizens of country A.

"Jane Eyre" is one of my favorite books. I originally read it in Russian and enjoyed it even more in English.

saluki

Anyone see this.

I am truly impressed with the courage of Pope Benedict.  He really sent a strong message to Al Qaida  performing this Baptism in a very public way Easter week, in spite of receiving threats from Bin Laden.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

The Associated Press

Sunday, March 23rd 2008, 4:00 AM

VATICAN CITY - Italy's most prominent Muslim, an iconoclastic writer who condemned Islamic extremism and defended Israel, was baptized a Catholic by the Pope at a Vatican Easter service Saturday.

Magdi Allam, 55, an Egyptian-born, nonpracticing Muslim who is married to a Catholic, had infuriated some Muslims with his books and columns in the newspaper Corriere della Sera, where he is a deputy editor.

As a choir sang, Pope Benedict poured holy water over Allam's head and said a brief prayer in Latin.

"We no longer stand alongside or in opposition to one another," Benedict said in a homily reflecting on the meaning of baptism. "Thus faith is a force for peace and reconciliation in the world: Distances between people are overcome, in the Lord we have become close."

ijl

I am even more impressed with the courage of Magdi Allam. He is an easier assasination target that the Pope.

anneshirley

Inna--I think you're confusing your countries. 

From your earlier post, you object highly to paying taxes to Country A since you had to consume a few glasses of wine to make the idea of it bearable.  And from what you've written you don't believe your taxes should be spread to where they're needed.  It would appear that you think taxes are meant to be apportioned in some manner that assures that whatever portion you pay, you get back in equal share. If everyone thought your way, you wouldn't be here.  And if that's too direct, sorry but it's true.  

Based on your view of the purpose of taxes, I should be violently objecting as a citizen of New York State that my state does not get back in services  what it contributes in money to the federal government. I don't object, at all, and I understand the purpose of good government and I appaud it when it's working to help everyone, not just a privileged few. But of late I do object!  And I hope very much it will change shortly. 

Please join the discussion group; I'm hoping it will be stimulating--in a different way from discussing politics. 

anneshirley

My Italian friends--obviously of my political persuasion--call him B16.

ijl

Hi Annieshirley,

I think you misunderstood me. I do not object to paying taxes or having them directed toward the need. you and I have differences in who NEEDS my taxes. For example I would not mind at all if my money went to help to an orphanage similar to the one Jane Eyre was raised in I would even voluntarily donate more money to help out these children.

I do not mind a temporary help for someone able-bodied who needs to get on their feet, we do have unemployment and welfare for this. I just mind doing it for years and years. Morevover and here you might agree with me, I mind giving my money to illegal immigrants.

We have pregnant women coming from Mexico to Los Angeles a few days before giving birth , going to our hospitals to give birth and while they are recuporating   social workers come buy with applications for welfare payments and foodstamps for the new citizen and his/her mother.

Anonymous

Paulette, I saw a clip of the new minister on television.  I think they just want to keep this thing going.  Obama's gonna have to do something.  Perhaps not go to church.    This rhetoric is mean and hateful.  It's absolutely divisive and when people say it's not and that we need to understand the history of the blacks I say..baalllooonnnneyy!  I already know the history.  It's history.  We are not doing lynchings.  Why does this man bring up "lynching?"  Oh, I know..to stir the pot. 

Let me say if I lived my childhood everyday I would be a mess!  A bigger mess than I am now!  Did I ever tell anyone that I was a slave.  Yep, to my mom.  I won't go into detail.  But, many years ago after having three kids my mother asked for forgiveness.  We argued a lot about how I was treated.  A load was lifted off my shoulders that day.  I no longer have the bitterness I had for my mom.  But I can tell you that just as quickly as she asked for forgiveness she also forgot she asked.  Our adult life has not been a close one.  But I MUST REITERATE.  There is not more bitterness.  It's history.

No, I cannot compare my little "slavery" story to those who were true slaves.  We must not repeat history.  I believe (perhaps I'm naive) that we are trying to right wrongs.  Not everyone.  There is ALWAYS going to be racism from both colors and ALL colors.

So, this is how one unites the country.  <sitting here shaking my head!>

Paulette531

Shirley...I was really surprised when I read that, some people/organizations, really don't know when to quit. I wonder who that church answers to? There has to be a higher authority somewhere, all churches have a chain of command.

Rosemary44

I really wish the media would leave this alone already.  I doubt we'll see Obama set foot in that place while he's running for President, and we can just imagine him going there should he become President.  That thought boggles the mind.  I know the media needs stories, but we're ready to move on. 

Anonymous

Paulette, obviously there are churches out there that can preach whatever they want.  And this church was known for their "views."

Rosemary, I hope Obama doesn't go back to that KIND of church.  I think we as citizens need to know what our President is listening to week after week.  I really do believe his wife is/was influenced by this church's teachings.  When she first said something about her being proud of America for the first time, I thought, huh?  And then I believe she said American is mean.  I know those are only two little statements.  But in the whole scheme of things I can now understand what she was saying and believing..she's done too much listening....well, JMO.

I think the media will eventually let this die.  Who knows.  Obama's speech didn't make me feel one bit better.  And I listened to it, not just read it.

Shirley

Rosemary44

Shirley,

I do know that I had to turn off my TV twice today because it was on a channel that was blaring the new pastor of that church, and his ravings.  Some Easter service.   It's still making headlines, but if they will let go of it, we can also.

On another note, the DNC has to pay for silly commercials showing McCain talking out of both sides of his mouth.  Saying one thing, then another, on the same subject.  This is truly a gone haywire election process when the DNC has to step in to remind the candidates that that's their job.  Clinton and Obama are going to miss each other to attack this coming August.  It's getting very ugly out there.

saluki

Must be some kind of generation gap---I was watching one of the news channels talking about that Joseph McCarthy slur----then they proceeded to show 2 minutes of Eugene McCarthy footage-- Truly the twilight zone. 

CherrylH

Shirley,

Do you know what the current occupant of the White House hears week after week? Do you need to know what knids of sermons he's listening to, if any at all, or is it just for some of the candidates for that office that need to be monitored? Just curious.

Cherryl

saluki

Did I miss something today.  Are the rest of you getting flooded by Obama commercials about him being the only candidate not taking lobbying money.---Is this only running in Pa?  Is this Pa's pressing issue?

Why today?  I find it more than a little peculiar.

Honestly, I've been going out of my way to turn off the talking heads,

so where this is coming from--I know not.

ijl

Cherryl,

I would like to know whether Bush is listening to the hateful cermons week after week. But maybe it's just me.  And then again nothing we could do about it, we can however do something about candidates though.

Blundin2005

This arrived to my inbox yesterday....thought that I'd share it to you all.  Did the news cover Cheney's memorial day of the 5th anniversary?  I didn't see it.  This is the man Bush listens to. 

I thought it was relevent to the conversation here.... 

So? ... A Note from Michael Moore

Monday, March 24th, 2008

Friends,

It would have to happen on Easter Sunday, wouldn't it, that the 4,000th American soldier would die in Iraq. Play me that crazy preacher again, will you, about how maybe God, in all his infinite wisdom, may not exactly be blessing America these days. Is anyone surprised?

4,000 dead. Unofficial estimates are that there may be up to 100,000 wounded, injured, or mentally ruined by this war. And there could be up to a million Iraqi dead. We will pay the consequences of this for a long, long time. God will keep blessing America.

And where is Darth Vader in all this? A reporter from ABC News this week told Dick Cheney, in regards to Iraq, "two-thirds of Americans say it's not worth fighting." Cheney cut her off with a one word answer: "So?"

"So?" As in, "So what?" As in, "F*** you. I could care less."

I would like every American to see Cheney flip the virtual bird at the them, the American people. Click here [http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/19/cheney-poll-iraq/] and pass it around. Then ask yourself why we haven't risen up and thrown him and his puppet out of the White House.

The Democrats have had the power to literally pull the plug on this war for the past 15 months -- and they have refused to do so. What are we to do about that? Continue to sink into our despair? Or get creative? Real creative. I know there are many of you reading this who have the chutzpah and ingenuity to confront your local congressperson. Will you? For me?

Cheney spent Wednesday, the 5th anniversary of the war, not mourning the dead he killed, but fishing off the Sultan of Oman's royal yacht. So? Ask your favorite Republican what they think of that.

The Founding Fathers would never have uttered the presumptuous words, "God Bless America." That, to them, sounded like a command instead of a request, and one doesn't command God, even if they are America. In fact, they were worried God would punish America. During the Revolutionary War, George Washington feared that God would react unfavorably against his soldiers for the way they were behaving. John Adams wondered if God might punish America and cause it to lose the war, just to prove His point that America was not worthy. They and the others believed it would be arrogant on their part to assume that God would single out America for a blessing. What a long road we have traveled since then.

I see that Frontline on PBS this week has a documentary called "Bush's War." That's what I've been calling it for a long time. It's not the "Iraq War." Iraq did nothing. Iraq didn't plan 9/11. It didn't have weapons of mass destruction. It DID have movie theaters and bars and women wearing what they wanted and a significant Christian population and one of the few Arab capitals with an open synagogue.

But that's all gone now. Show a movie and you'll be shot in the head. Over a hundred women have been randomly executed for not wearing a scarf. I'm happy, as a blessed American, that I had a hand in all this. I just paid my taxes, so that means I helped to pay for this freedom we've brought to Baghdad. So? Will God bless me?

God bless all of you in this Easter Week as we begin the 6th year of Bush's War.

God help America. Please.

Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
MichaelMoore.com

 

I get this angry about cancer and our fight against it.  Seems analogous with politics.  Best wishes to all....as always 

Anonymous

Its a good thing that Cheney didnt accidently shoot the Sultan of Oman while he was fishing.

Rosemary44

Susie, your getting the early start of campaign ads for the primary.  Just think, you have one month of this coming at you.  They're going to wake up a sleeping giant if they're saying McCain is taking money from the lobbists too.  I think I would have kept him out of this for a little while longer.

NoH8

Shirley,  you really don't get slavery do you? I can't believe how gratiousously you throw around that term. No matter how awful your childhood was, you were not brought over to this country in shackles, denied the ability to learn to read or become educated, given up for rape to your white slave masters,  etc. etc. etc. I'm truly sorry if you had a bad childhood and I admire you for overcoming that, but to  suggest that you were your mother's slave is a slap in the face people who were slaves.

Obama has never taken a penny from lobbyists for his presidential campaign, all of his contributions have come from every day people sending in even $5, $10 or even $100 or even the maximum $2300.  The other candidates have taken money from lobbyists and special interest groups. Obama has made great use of the internet for fund raising and was instrumental in the congressional bill to limit how much special interest groups and even individuals can contribute to a campaign. This is so important to having credible elections, because it means that business and wealthy folks can't buy elections.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Hillary's lie/mistatement about her Bosnia trip as first lady. She lied so much about the "danger" she was under that she started to believe her own lies, even when there was documentation to the contrary. Even today in a radio interview she talked about how it was "too dangerous" and the ceremony had to be moved inside-- but she had to stop to greet an 8 year old. On what planet is a tarmack too dangerous for the military and adults but not for an 8 year old girl?

shokk

Amy let's not forget her on daughter Chelsea........nothing like putting your own child in the line of danger......Shokk

NoH8

Oh yeah-- thanks shokk-- I almost forgot that .

saluki

I agree with you Rosemary--This may be an issue whose history comes back to bite him for several reasons especially against McCain.

An excerpt from American Thinker

The Millionaire's exception

It is well-known that George Soros, the hedge-fund manager, major Democratic Party donor and anti-Israel crusader, has been a generous contributor to Barack Obama. But relatively few people realize that a loophole in McCain-Feingold allowed Soros his family members to be particularly generous in support of Obama's Senatorial campaign.

Because Obama was running against Blair Hull in the primary and then Jack Ryan in the general (both multi-millionaires), Obama could, and did, receive especially large donations from individuals, to so-called "millionaires exception." Normally individuals are limited to giving $2300 to candidates in federal elections, but when candidates are running against millionaires, these limits are lifted and candidates are allowed to receive up to $12,000 from a single individual. Soros and his family gave Barack Obama $60,000. This does not include money that Soros was able to funnel to so-called 527 groups (Moveon.org, for example) that have also been politically active; nor does it include money that Soros was able to raise from tapping a network of friends, business associates, and employees.

After taking advantage of the special freedom to raise large amounts of money from influential individuals, and as the campaigns entered their closing rounds, news was leaked to media outlets that both Hull and Ryan had personal scandals associated with them. The release of this news devastated both of their campaigns, leading to an easy run to victory for Obama in the primary and then in the general election. The New York Times Magazine revealed earlier in the year that David Axelrod, Obama's chief political and media adviser, may well have been behind the leak of the story that doomed the Hull candidacy as the primary reached its home stretch.

Axelrod is known for operating in this gray area, part idealist, part hired muscle. It is difficult to discuss Axelrod in certain circles in Chicago without the matter of the Blair Hull divorce papers coming up. As the 2004 Senate primary neared, it was clear that it was a contest between two people: the millionaire liberal, Hull, who was leading in the polls, and Obama, who had built an impressive grass-roots campaign. About a month before the vote, The Chicago Tribune revealed, near the bottom of a long profile of Hull, that during a divorce proceeding, Hull's second wife filed for an order of protection. In the following few days, the matter erupted into a full-fledged scandal that ended up destroying the Hull campaign and handing Obama an easy primary victory. The Tribune reporter who wrote the original piece later acknowledged in print that the Obama camp had "worked aggressively behind the scenes" to push the story. But there are those in Chicago who believe that Axelrod had an even more significant role - that he leaked the initial story. They note that before signing on with Obama, Axelrod interviewed with Hull. They also point out that Obama's TV ad campaign started at almost the same time. Axelrod swears up and down that "we had nothing to do with it" and that the campaign's television ad schedule was long planned. "An aura grows up around you, and people assume everything emanates from you," he told me.

Rosemary44

Susie,

Fine minds must think alike.  I too looked up the "Obama not taking lobbyist money" and found the same sight.  It will bite him in the butt.  He's just sidestepping the lobbyist and taking money in directly from the firms the lobbyist represents.  Or the executives of those firms.  Shhhh, they spent millions on those ads, so don't tell anyone.

Rosemary44

Amy,

I think Clinton's memory about her arrival in Bosnia was so ridiculous.  She knows she can't say anything about anything without 100 talking heads ready to pounce all over her.  There is footage on her in every TV station across the world.  She does have world recognition, so why tell such a tall tale?  Or lie, if you'd rather use that word.  It was totally senseless.  I think she was reading from a prepared statement, so I still don't get it.