Enlighten me: Limit--one gun per month-Problem?

saluki

Enlighten me: Limit--one gun per month-Problem?

saluki

Just how many guns does a person need to buy a month?  Sorry, but this is unfathonable to me.

As a former resident of Philadelphia watching this city turn into a war zone is sad.

Our Governor tried to put some limit to this lunacy to introducing a one gun per month limit

and it was voted down today.

I can somewhat understand the right to bear arms but to have an arsenal---to me this is madness--If there is something that I am missing--I'd like to understand. Please enlighten me.

What is going on here? 

NoH8

The reason for the proposed law is because of "straw" gun purchases. These are guns purchased, not for the purchaser, but to sell or give illegally to people who can't get guns legally. If sold, they make a huge profit on the guns from criminals who are will pay higher than retail value. If the straw gun purchasers can only get one per month, it would at least cut down on their ability to arm many criminals in one month.

Bugs

My brother is a collector and he would have a problem with that law.  There are legitimate, ethical collectors out there that buy and sell to each other.  And no...not for blowing everything up.

Bugs

NoH8

How many guns a month does your brother usually buy?

Bugs

Depends on the month.  He refinishes them, also, so it depends on how much time he wants to put in that month.  Maybe 5 tops?  Dunno....I don't usually talk guns with my brother as he sees the glazed look that comes over my eyes.  Why do you ask?

Bugs

AlaskaDeb

OK....at risk of really ticking people off...I am SO sick of gun control laws.  I own guns.  I use guns.  Guns are tools.  They are not evil any more than a car is evil....a fast moving Buick can be just a deadly as a gun.

I know, I know...I know all the stats and the reasons people want these laws, but to me it is just silly to try and control folks who already are breaking laws about guns by writing more laws about guns.

It is against the law to shoot a person with a gun.  Put the people in jail that use them in illegal ways. 

Just for reference...I have purchased as many as 3 guns in one month.  I bought a 270 for our house.  It is the gun I use to shoot the coyotes that try and eat my chickens.  We also bought a 22 for the girls to learn to shoot and a gun for a Christmas gift.  I am not a criminal.  I should not have to start my Christmas shopping 3 months early if I want to buy guns for gifts.

Sorry guys, I know I am in a minority on this one, but I am a law abiding gun owner and I am sick of feeling like I need to apologize for it.

Deb C

NoH8

The reason I asked is because I was curious. I wonder if they could put in a rider for people who collect guns, in fairness to the lawful gun buyers.

There's a difference between buying "as many as 3 guns" in a month and buying 50 to sell to criminals, IMHO. How would your life have been negatively impacted in you had had to buy those guns over a period of 3 months?

I'm sick to death of people saying guns don't kill people, people kill people and yammering about their gun rights. I would venture to guess that out founding fathers were not speaking about semiautomatics when they wrote about the right to bear arms in the constitution.

If I had my druthers guns would be outlawed in this country, although I know it will never happen. In the european countries that don't allow guns, they have far less gun murders and multiple murders.

In the city of Philly we have had 6 police officers shot over a 5 week period, one fatally. I think about the gunman at Virgina Tech last year killing 32 people and himself.  If he didn't have a gun, but a knife he wouldn't have been able to kill so many people. Back when I was a kid, kids fought with their fists and once in a while used a knife. You never heard about mass shootings.

Even if I was a gun user or collector, I would be willing to experiment with the 1 gun a month law for a year to see if it made a difference in my community.  In my opinion society is not just about individual rights, but the rights of the society not to be held hostage by violence. (BTW, I don't live in the city and am not effected by the violence in Philly, but I do empathize).

AlaskaDeb

Amy-

How would I be negatively affected?  Well, the gun shop I use is 150 miles from my home.  I don't go there every month.  If could have only purchased one gun a month, I would have had to drive 600 miles extra to make my purchases.  Plus, I had not made the decision to buy the gun for a gift 3 months before the date I gave it. 

You, know, I swore that I would quit getting into confrontational conversations about politics and religion on this site.  I think I may need to add guns to the list.

By the way, I didn't say that "guns don't kill people, people kill people" and I can not honestly believe you, of all people, would say you were sick of people "yammering about their rights".

My jaw dropped when you went on to say you wished MY rights would be taken away as a gun owner, when you are so in favor of individual rights....maybe that is only when YOUR rights are being stomped on.  I was also shocked to hear you don't think society is not just about individual rights.  I seem to remember you are quite the proponent of individual rights....

If you think the problem is criminals buying 50 guns to resell...then make reselling 50 guns illegal, if it isn't already. 

For me, when I have a 1,000 pound brown bear in my yard, I prefer to have a rifle in my hand, not a sling-shot. 

Look, we are never in a million years even come close to agreeing on this topic.  I can agree to disagree.

Member_of_the_Club

I live in Washington DC where the people of our city overwhelming want gun control. The police force strongly supports gun control. Yet Congress is in the process of challenging our right as citizens to protect ourselves from guns on the streets. And trust me, there are plenty of people here who would be able to get guns, who shouldn't.



I have no problem with Alaska Deb buying her guns. Thats all fine for the people of Alaska who want their guns, their business. But here in DC we want our gun control and it is being taken away by people who don't even live here.

NoH8

Alaska I meant to say GUN RIGHTS and changed the post. I would have assumed since we were talking about guns you realized that. My rights to love who I chose and be treated as an equal aren't going to kill anyone the way a buying more than 1 gun a month to illegally resell can.

Member, I think that people who don't live in big cities where gun violence is rampant don't really see or hear about these deaths on a daily basis and perhaps are desensitized to how it effects communities. I wonder if congress would be more cooperative is wealthy and middle class white people, their friends and neighbors, were the primary victims of these gun crimes.

mke

This is really (in my humble opinion) a rural versus urban situation.  When I lived in rural MN, everyone owned a gun including me.  There is one at our home in the WI forest.  I am a good shot and I had my sons trained by my marksman FIL.  I wanted them to know guns so there was no "coolness" factor to them.  I wanted then to regard them as tools, like vacuum cleaners.  In downtown Toronto where I currently live I don't need one and I don't have one and I would happily register one.

Guns are tools, but I don't believe that they serve any good purpose in cities other than those possessed by police. 

However I have wished for my 22 or my 410 at times when the squirrels or pigeons annoyed me beyond my patience.  But my son's supersoaker was almost better.  I felt far more like Rambo.  I stalked the garden, pumping up the pressure, found myself dropping in a half crouch.  The neighbors were starting to worry about me.

shokk

If anyone thinks that by limiting the amount of guns that can be bought by law abiding citizens to one a month or one a year or one a day is going to keep CRIMINALS from obtaining guns illegally you guys are out of your minds..........

Bugs

I find it insulting that just because I have one belief about guns I am "desensitized" about the killing of innocent life.  Most people that believe in the right to guns are not careless about what guns can do.  Just the opposite, IMO.  I do not let my son have toy guns in our house.  Why?  Because guns are real and they kill and he needs to know that with holding a gun comes EXTREME responsibility.  They are not toys to be played with.  However, my son has shot guns in an appropriate setting and with proper safety measures and supervision. 

Just because I have one opinion does not make me uncaring.  I am certainly not part of the wealthy and I don't think my friends are either.

Bugs

NoH8

You missed the point shokk, the 1 a month law will prevent straw gun purchasers from being able to stock up on guns to sell to criminals. That is a BIG problem in our city. Most of the guns used in homicides are illegal guns which they got from STRAW purchases.

I believe that if any of you lived in the heart of the problems, where your kids couldn't play outsite because of the danger, when you know at least one friend or relative who's been shot or killed, you might have a different perspective. People living in poverty usually can't afford to pick up and move to a different place, even the suburbs, but others can. In philly low income minorities are most often the victims of these crimes, and sadly also the perpetraters. If this was a suburban, white, middle and weathly class problem I truly believe it would hit closer to home and make some people take a step back and say,"what can I do to help the situation."

TenderIsOurMight

This just in: 

updated 2 hours, 33 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court said Tuesday it will decide  whether the District of Columbia can ban handguns, a case that  could produce the most in-depth examination of the constitutional right to "keep and bear arms" in nearly 70 years.

The justices' decision to hear the case could make the divisive debate over guns an issue in the 2008 presidential and congressional elections.

The government of Washington, D.C., is asking the court to uphold its 31-year ban on handgun ownership in the face of a federal appeals court ruling that struck down the ban as incompatible with the Second Amendment. Tuesday's announcement was widely expected, especially after both the District and the man who challenged the handgun ban asked for the high court review.  A lower court struck down the ban as a violation of the Second Amendment rights of gun ownership

Second Amendment consideration rare
Supreme Court justices have track records that make predicting their rulings on many topics more than a mere guess. Then there is the issue of the Second Amendment and guns, about which the court has said virtually nothing in nearly 70 years.

The prospect that the high court might define gun rights under the Constitution is making people on both sides of the issue nervous.

"I wouldn't be confident on either side," said Mark Tushnet, a Harvard Law School professor and author of a new book on the battle over guns in the United States.

Inidividual versus state right
The main issue before the justices is whether the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to own guns or instead spells out the collective right of states to maintain militias. The former interpretation would permit fewer restrictions on gun ownership.
   
The Second Amendment reads: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

The federal appeals court for the District of Columbia was the first federal panel to strike down a gun-control law based on individual rights. The court ruled in favor of Dick Anthony Heller, an armed security guard whose application to keep a handgun at home was denied by the district.

Most other U.S. courts have said the Second Amendment does not contain a right to have a gun for purely private purposes.

shokk

Amy I taught school in the late 70's in the west Dallas Projects where every single day I went to work never knew if I was going to live through the day........the only white women you ever see was the welfare workers and believe me they were not well received......had first graders that had to sit in the room away from the windows and could never ever go outside to play because of the gun fire.........if you think for one minute by limiting the amount of guns that can be purchased because of straw purchases you have got to be one of the most naive individuals I have ever encounter...........and by the way most criminals are killing one another statistically on average and more so than not the minorities are killing each other.........black on black, Hispanic on Hispanic and white on white...........simply because most people that are killed are killed by someone they know..............Shook

shokk

Does anyone find it interesting that Washington D.C. has one of the highest rates of homicide by firearms if not the highest rate of murder in the country and has had a 31 year ban on owning handguns......maybe if the criminals knew that citizens were arming themselves for protection that statistic might just be reduce .......Shokk

NoH8

Citizens arming themselves? That's a recipe for disaster. There's a case in the atlanta area where a homeowner shot 3 (two died) in the backs as they ran away from allegedly trying to rob him-- their side says they were there to buy pot. Because the law says he has a right to protect his property, he's not being charged even though he SHOT THEM IN THE BACK as they fled. Instead the third young man is being charged with the murder of his friends because they died in the commission of a crime. Oh yeah, they're black, but fortunately he has a change of venue for his trial. Civil rights leaders are saying if the homeowner had been black and the boys white, the charged would have fallen on the home owner and I believe it.  Allowing homeowners to get away with shooting alleged thieves in the back is a bad idea IMHO.

Tender, I'm afraid with the make up of this supreme court, the law is going to be struck down. Which I think is crazy, as someone said earlier, because rural and urban areas have different needs and risks.

Shokk, I don't think we can look at DC's statistics in a vaccuum. I'd rather see a comparison that included what percentage of the people in that city live below the poverty level, what is the percent of homelessness, what is being done for prisoners being released in terms of rehab, what type juvenile education program they have, what's the rate of unemployment etc.

Paulette531

That wasn't in Atlanta, it was in California.

djd

I think there is a big difference between having a gun to protect your property against bears is totally different than having a gun in the city.  In the cities, many people have family members, neighbors, friends, etc., who are victims of gun violence and it is gut wrenching and borders on absurd to hear someone argue that limiting purchases to 1 gun per month is encroaching on our rights!

I just finished going through airport security, where I had to take off my shoes and limit my hand lotion and make-up to 3oz containers that all fit into a quart-sized ziploc bag, for pete's sake!

My brother, a retired Navy officer, was a big believer in the 2nd amendment and owned several guns.  He was a trained shooter, and he was a collector of fine guns.  He also had a concealed weapons permit and never left his home unarmed. 

He's also dead, at the hands of his own gun, after an apparent dispute over finances with his wife while they were both drinking.

There is no black and white solution here.  But we simply must find a way to talk about the problems facing our society, in a civil manner, without automatically assuming the worst from the opposing viewpoint.  Otherwise, we are doomed to be pigeon-holed in ways that best suit our politicians, rather than our society.

Happy Turkey Day, y'all.

Paulette531

Oh and once again tell the whole story tell how those poor sweet guys trying to buy pot beat the s*** out of the guys son with a baseball bat and the kid is now in a nursing home. You never quite seem to get all the facts in. I wonder....................

NoH8

No need to get personal paulette. You can make your point without resorting to that kind of talk. Nothing has been proven in a court of law yet, but on Star Jones the prosecuter did say he declined to press charges against the homeowner because he has a right to defend his property.

Member_of_the_Club

I live in DC and I can tell you with absolute certainty that if anyone who wants a gun gets one it will be a very bad situation. There's a reason why the police force supports the gun ban. We have a high level of violence because we are a city with long-term issues of poverty. Most (all?) urban centers have high levels of violence.



The murder rate is a reflection of the drug trade and gang violence. Arming the middle class won't make a difference there because the middle class is not the target of the violence. I was born and raised in DC and i can tell you I have never witnessed gun violence of any kind and I have never been the victim of a crime here (I have in other cities). But if anyone can get a gun there will certainly be a spillover as well as an increase in crimes of passion and "accidental" shootings.



We don't want guns. Its our city. We pay taxes. We should be able to make our own laws. Whats it to you if you don't live here?

Paulette531

Ya know Amy, had ya' not gotten PERSONAL with me once and you were nasty and went on and on, I would'n't get personal with you. What goes around comes around.

2up

paulette .......... "hugs" ............ ya ain't gonna win here, or anywhere that amy has a political agenda ......... !  have you had plastic surgery?  apparently, enhancing and/or maintaining our appearances makes us less wise.  oh, and heterosexualism seems to make us politically stupid too ........"duh" ........... how could us 'simple folk' ever hope to stand up for a cause or have a valued opinion if we don't beat the 'oppressed horse' to death ........... !

.........perhaps if i were a lesbian, i'd "get" all of the social injustice, 'cause lord knows the world according to amy is the law .........  apparently all of the shitty things that plague me mean nothing because i'm straight and don't experience social injustice or descrimination ............  ?

gimme a friggin break!!!!!!  

amy .......... try joining the non sexual, non political realm of breast cancer.  try jumping off of your high horse for 10 seconds, try supporting others and/or refraining from chastising others for 5 minutes ............ it's cathartic, fulfilling and selfless .......... none of these traits are a sign of weakness.  stop belittling everybody who doesn't go with your flow ............ lots of us deal with descrimination everyday, you're far from the only one ....... get over yourself please!!!!!!! 

NoH8

Paulette, I haven't gotten into the mud with you. That's not my style. I will debate your ideas, but not you as a person.

Same with you shel. Both of have gotten personal with me in posts, which is far different than discussing a topic. I enjoy an intellectual discussion, which isn't isn't possible with personal attacks. I realize I've given you more attention in this post than is warranted, I'm just sick and tired of the tag team attacks. If I trusted you more, I would have taken this to PM.

Paulette531

Amy...yes you have. Don't back pedal, it's not charming!

NoH8

Sorry Paulette, that's not my style. I'm not going to say anything else on the subject.

Anonymous

Well I dont own a gun.  Never have.  But let me tell you if I have a big black bear coming into my backyard, I want the biggest rifle I can find.

Banning guns will not stop those who are doing the killing from getting them.  Leaving the rest of us defenseless.

We do have the right to bear arms if we choose too.  Isnt that in our constituition or something like that?

Anyways - have a great Thanksgiving today.

Nicki

NoH8

If you look into the gun death stats from countries like Holland where guns are illegal, you'll see a big difference between gun deaths there and countries where they are legal. Even countries that have recently banned guns have less gun violence. There must be more humane ways to get rid of bears than killing them.