The Brand New Respectful Presidential Campaign Thread

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited June 2008

    Rosemary, not long ago I saw where the best places to relocate was San Antonio, Charlotte, and darn, I didn't get the third one. 

    My mom's property tax was sooooo cheap.  It was a nice senior discount that Texas gives.  And, I don't know if they still have this program, but she had someone that would come into her home five days a week for four hours to clean, cook, etc.  The care was ONLY to be for her.  They were not supposed to cook, clean, etc., for anyone else..clean the places she "lived"...her bathroom, bedroom, her dishes, living room. 

    I have now grown to love where I live.  Heck, I've been here for about 41 years.  But it's nice to go HOME for a visit.

    Shirley

  • anneshirley
    anneshirley Member Posts: 1,110
    edited June 2008
    Some of you don't seem to distinguish between your own reaction to something horrible that happens to one you love and the State's reaction.  Your reaction is not codified--the State's is.  Of course, I would want to hurt, maybe kill--at least in the moment--someone who damaged a person I love.  My reaction--and yours--are not equivalent to the State's reaction. When the State kills, it has joined itself with those who did the killing.  The State should be above visceral reaction. We none of us have the right to take a life, except in absolute self defense, and executing someone when they could be imprisoned for the remainder of their lives is not self defense.  We are joined together with the worse countries in the world, those that, for example, cut off the hands of thieves, to answer someone's question.  A country cannot become a member of the European Union if it permits the death penalty.  In fact, Turkey in deciding to apply for EU membership had to get rid of its use of the death penalty.  And this is how it should be.  It's ironic that so many Americans fear certain countries, such as Iran, when we are so very much like those countries.  Perhaps it's equivalent to the U.S. not wanting countries, like Iran, to have the bomb, when the only country that ever dropped the bomb was the U.S.  Is it possible we fear such countries because of our own tendencies to violence?  You all know the drill--those who are capable of certain behaviors are always more suspicious of those behaviors in others!
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited June 2008

    Anneshirley, I can only say I full heartedly disagree with you.  Hey, but we live in a country where we can disagree and talk about it.  We don't cut off hands in the U.S. because we disagree with our government.  I don't believe in any way you can compare us to countries that butcher people.  Our justice system may not be perfect.

    Now, I realize you may not think this relates to what we are talking about.  My dd, whose an attorney, was working late last night.  Thank God that her partner who is also a woman was working late too.  My dd works late many nights.  Her partner was in the kitchen.  She saw someone near my dd's car and realized he was breaking into it.  She told my dd to call the police and her partner was giving descriptions of him while my dd was on the phone with them.  They were there quickly because they were in the area.  Well, they guy was hiding under her partner's car.  The found him, put the handcuffs on him, and he, the PERPETRATOR, was cursing the cops.  I'm sure this wasn't his first criminal offense.  And the sad thing.  They are so overburdened with crime that this man will probably never get prosecuted.

    My point...I worry about my daughter even though she's an adult.  What's this guy going to do next time...Hmm...maybe kill someone for a couple of bucks.  I told my dd she needs not to work late..to take work home with her.  I also told her she needs to buy a gun.  In the state of N.C. we can own concealed weapons.  One has to have a background check, be trained, etc., before one can have one.  She talked to her dad about this one time and he told her if she ever bought a gun TO BE PREPARED TO USE IT.  Other words, don't lose the gun to the culprit.

    Do I really want her to have a gun?  No.  But, in this world of violence it scares the crap out of me knowing that she (or my other dds and grandchildren) could raped, kidnapped and/or killed.  It's bad out there, Anneshirley.  And if something happened to one of my children, husband or grandchildren me and my judgmental, violent self would want that person to pay.  When I see the horror stories on the news....

    Remember the pregnant marine who was killed right here in N.C. by the father of her baby?  Do you remember what he did with her body.  She was eight months pregnant..remember?  She was found in a shallow grave in his backyard where he set a bonefire.  Her charred remains and the remains her her precious baby were there.  And, guess what.  He'll never see the death sentence because he fled to Mexico and was extradited here.  And you know what that means.  No death sentence or they won't extradite. And, here in N.C. he cannot be tried for two murders because the baby was not born yet.  And, there is no doubt he did this horrendous crime. 

    BTW, European Union!  No thanks!

    Shirley

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited June 2008

    This little girl reminded me so much of my oldest daughter when she was her age...the curly hair..the eyes...the color of her hair.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7rwK6prz30&feature=related

    This guy got the death sentence and rightfully so.  I watched some of this trial.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-CK-CBX-tU&feature=related

    Pause the video and read some of the stories.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtAHFcwBKnM&feature=related

    Sad day in hell when we have to be civilized towards these scumbags.  Anyone who rapes and kills a child should die.  I cannot imagine what these kids went through before they died.  What were they thinking?  Crying...I want my mommy and daddy.  Being tortured. 

  • Paulette531
    Paulette531 Member Posts: 738
    edited June 2008

    Obama, Clinton appeal for Democratic unity in N.H.
    Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., takes the stage with Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., at a campaign event in Unity, N.H., Friday, June 27, 2008, their first joint public appearance since the divisive Democratic primary race ended. "Well, Unity is not only a beautiful place as we can see, it's a wonderful feeling isn't it? And I know when we start here in this field in unity, we'll end on the steps of the Capitol when Barack Obama takes the oath of office as our next president," said Clinton. (AP Photo/Elise Amendola)

    I wonder if she wanted to vomit when she made that statement, or maybe she was on drugs?

    Shirley I totally agree with you where the death penalty is concerned. But what I find the most interesting from the libs on this board is this...the slaves built the prison system which sucks and if you agree with the death penalty it's because you don't know how to distinguish between blah blah and blah blah! And as a country we suck at everything and Europe is much better for civilized people to live because they are more...well civilized and we are nothing but a bunch of uncivilized blah blahs who are guilty because our forefathers owned slaves (wether our forefathers were here or not) and if we disagree with any of that it is because we have a guilty conscience but by all means let the dregs of society who have comitted the most horrible crimes imaginable get life in prison...that is in our prisons that suck because slave labor built them. Ah...it is another glorious Friday in boardland! LOL!

    Have a great weekend!

  • anneshirley
    anneshirley Member Posts: 1,110
    edited June 2008

    Blah, blah, blah, is about right!  The question is who's doing the blahing!  Try not to confuse Grace's posts on slavery with mine on civilized Europe.  And I'll reiterate that view, again.  Perhaps Europeans have had more experience and time to learn that violence begets nothing but violence.  Unless, you have another way to account for the huge numbers of murderers, child rapists, torturers, wife beaters, gang members, etc. of which we have so many and Europe has so few.

    Aside from that, I do want to say that those who accuse McCain of being the third Bush term, are overlooking a far better contender for that title--as shown below:  Obama is moving to the right so quickly, I suspect the "Respectfully Republican" thread will soon be termed "Obama for President2."

    Alex Brandon/Associated Press
     

    Senator Barack Obama appears to have moved toward the political center in the last week judging by his comments on guns and the death penalty. Mr. Obama visited Pittsburgh on Thursday.

    On Thursday, he seemed to embrace a Supreme Court decision, written by the court’s premiere conservative and upheld 5-to-4, striking down Washington, D.C.’s ban on handguns.

    Mr. Obama seemed to voice support for the ban as recently as February. On Thursday, however, he issued a Delphic news release that seemed to support the Supreme Court, although staff members later insisted that might not be the case.

    “I have always believed that the Second Amendment protects the right of individuals to bear arms, but I also identify with the need for crime-ravaged communities to save their children from the violence that plagues our streets through common-sense, effective safety measures,” Mr. Obama said. “The Supreme Court has now endorsed that view.”

    He added, “Today’s decision reinforces that if we act responsibly, we can both protect the constitutional right to bear arms and keep our communities and our children safe.”

    In the last week, Mr. Obama has taken calibrated positions on issues that include electronic surveillance, campaign finance and the death penalty for child rapists, suggesting a presidential candidate in hot pursuit of what Bill Clinton once lovingly described as “the vital center.”

    “A presidential candidate’s great desire is to be seen as pragmatic, and they hope their maneuvering and shifting will be seen in pursuit of some higher purpose,” said Robert Dallek, the presidential historian. “It doesn’t mean they are utterly insincere.”

    George W. Bush, too, maneuvered toward the political center in 2000 presidential campaign, convincing many that he might rule in the moderately conservative tradition of his father. And Senator John McCain, the Republican presidential candidate, shifted several positions in the Republican primary, taking conservative lines on taxes and immigration.

    President Franklin D. Roosevelt, for generations a liberal Democratic lode star, was no easier to define. He slipped and slid his way through the 1932 election. “Herbert Hoover called him a ‘chameleon on plaid,’ ” Mr. Dallek said.

    Mr. Obama has executed several policy pirouettes in recent weeks, each time landing more toward the center of the political ring. On Wednesday in Chicago, he confirmed that he would not fight a revised law that would extend retroactive immunity to telecommunications companies that helped the government spy on American citizens. (He had previously spoken against immunity provisions in an earlier version of the bill.) And recently he backed away from his own earlier support for campaign finance spending limits in the 2008 election.

    Mr. Obama describes his new turns as consistent with long-held beliefs. On Wednesday he painted his decision to opt out of the campaign finance system as a reformist gesture, noting that most of his donors are not wealthy. “Our donor base is the American people,” he said, adding that this was the thematic goal of campaign finance reform.

    This most observant of politicians has throughout his career shown an appreciation for the virtues of political ambiguity. In February, a local television anchor asked Mr. Obama to explain his support of the Washington gun ban. The candidate, a transcript shows, did not object to that characterization of his position, even as he said he favored the Second Amendment and supports law-abiding people who use guns for sport and protection. “And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets, we are going to trace more effectively how these guns are ending up on the streets, to unscrupulous gun dealers, who often times are selling to straw purchasers,” he said.

    In South Carolina this year, Mr. Obama lent his voice to the battle against the Bush administration’s program of wiretaps without warrants. “This administration also puts forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security he demands,” he said in South Carolina earlier this year.

    The bill since has been modified, with internal safeguards put in place on wiretaps without warrants. This has not pleased Mr. Obama’s Democratic allies on the Hill; Senators Charles E. Schumer of New York, Russ Feingold of Wisconsin, and Christopher J. Dodd of Connecticut, strongly oppose the bill.

    But Mr. Obama indicated on Wednesday he probably would vote for it. “The issue of the phone companies per se is not one that overrides the security of the American people,” he said.

    On the death penalty, Mr. Obama wrote in his memoir, “The Audacity of Hope,” (Crown, 2007), that the penalty “does little to deter crime.” But he added that society has the right to express outrage at heinous crimes. During his 2004 Senate campaign, he publicly supported the death penalty, even as he called the justice system flawed and urged a moratorium on executions.

    Mr. Obama is an introspective candidate, and perhaps the best analyst of his own political style. “I serve as a blank screen,” he wrote in “The Audacity of Hope,” “on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”

  • saluki
    saluki Member Posts: 2,287
    edited June 2008

    Ahhhhh---Just got this in the mail and thought you gals might get a kick out of it---Very nostalgic and extremely funny---especially for this one time flaming liberal-----Made me smile to remember what seems like crazy ancient days, --Was I ever young?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4_MsrsKzMM

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited June 2008

    Anne, I believe if you talk to prosecutors, the ones that are prosecuted for having guns. or comitting crimes are the ones who obtain their weapon illegally.  I'ts not you or me or the law abiding citizin who do the crimes.  Illegal guns will be around no matter if we take legal guns away.  Any one with common sense should know that.

    Shirley

  • spar2
    spar2 Member Posts: 6,827
    edited June 2008

    Subject: 2009 Taxes   This is not idle e-mail chatter, but actual facts from the 3 candidates' campaign speeches.  When put into print, it becomes more of a reality...not just idle campaign blabering.               Proposed Changes In Taxes After 2008 General Election:               CAPITAL GAINS TAX             MCCAIN           15% (no change)             OBAMA           28%             CLINTON          24%             How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to down-size your home or move into  a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.             DIVIDEND TAX             MCCAIN           15% (no change)             OBAMA           39.6%             CLINTON           39.6%             How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama or Clinton become president. The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.'             INCOME TAX             MCCAIN           (no changes)           Single making 30K - tax $4,500           Single making 50K - tax $12,500           Single making 75K - tax $18,750           Married making 60K- tax $9,000           Married making 75K - tax $18,750           Married making 125K - tax $31,250             OBAMA           Single making 30K - tax $8,400           Single making 50K - tax $14,000           Single making 75K - tax $23,250           Married making 60K - tax $16,800           Married making 75K - tax $21,000           Married making 125K - tax $38,750             CLINTON           Single making 3 0K - tax $8,400           Single making 50K - tax $14,000           Single making 75K - tax $23,250           Married making 60K - tax $16,800           Married making 75K - tax $21,000           Married making 125K - tax $38,750             How does this affect you? No explanation needed. This is pretty straight forward.               INHERITANCE TAX             MCCAIN           0%           (No change, this tax has been repealed)             OBAMA           keep the inheritance tax             CLINTON           keep the inheritance tax             How does this affect you? Many families have lost businesses, farms and ranches, and homes that have been in their families f or generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will not only lose them to these taxes.               NEW TAXES BEING PROPOSED BY BOTH CLINTON AND OBAMA             * New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet             * New gasoline taxes (as if gas weren't high enough already)             * New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity)             * New taxes on retirement accounts, and last but not least....             * New taxes to pay for socialized medicine so we can receive the same level of medical     care as other third-world countries!!!                        Just think before you vote this year...            

  • Rosemary44
    Rosemary44 Member Posts: 2,660
    edited June 2008

    Thanks Spar, that's quite an eye opener.  I hope it gets around.  The dems are raising taxes on the lower income people too?  This is confusing.  That's not what they're saying.  They're talking the Robin Hood theory, yet their plans are upping taxes on everyone.  This might need further study.

  • anneshirley
    anneshirley Member Posts: 1,110
    edited June 2008

    I once had a friend, no longer a friend for obvious reasons, who used to email me stuff along the lines of Spar's post above.  For example, she once sent me a notice that illegal immigrants were collecting so much social security that the benefits of those of us who are legal were being tapped out.  Now, as most of you who read know, if you're not legal, you may have paid into social security, but you can't get it out, which essentially means that illegals are actually shoring up social security, not depleting it.

    The above post is in a similar vein. (Rosemary, your instincts are correct.) For those of you who don't know this, here are actual facts with respect to sale of your home:

    $250,000 Exclusion on the Sale of a Main Home

    Individuals can exclude up to $250,000 in profit from the sale of a main home (or $500,000 for a married couple) as long as you have owned the home and lived in the home for a minimum of two years. Those two years do not need to be consecutive. In the 5 years prior to the sale of the house, you need to have lived in the house for at least 24 months in that 5-year period. In other words, the home must have been your principal residence.

    You can use this 2-out-of-5 year rule to exclude your profits each time you sell or exchange your main home. Generally, you can claim the exclusion only once every two years. Some exceptions do apply.

    The old folks that Spar2 refers to must be very active (selling their homes every two years) and rich.  But even if you're rich, never fear. It would appear under this Republican administration that  their homes are dropping in value every day--more than 15% for many in the last year alone. So, for sure, if you hold out selling until Bush leaves office, your home won't be worth $250,000 or $500,000 (the figure that applies to most home-owning Americans), so you'll be tax free.

    It would take me too long to go into the other examples, but they are all the same as above, either half truths, or no truth at all.  One example, neither Obama nor Clinton proposed any new taxes for the vast majority of Americans (which includes all the tax brackets listed above).  What they did propose was that the tax break given by Bush to the rich be permitted to die out when its expiration date comes due.  McCain, who was absolutely against this tax break to the rich when he wasn't trying to become president, wants to make it permanent now that he does want to become president.  Although I don't agree with many of McCain's positions (Roe v Wade, for example), I once admired him greatly (one of the few Republicans that I did admire) for having  integrity.  Apparently, his integrity has gone underground during this presidential year.  None of the brackets above are for the rich. 

    We old folks are even better off with Obama, as he's proposing that we have no taxes if we make under $50,000.  Oops, sorry, forgot, Spar2 is only interested in the wealthier folks, not the majority of Americans.

    Please don't post half truths.  There are some on this board who actually read and are interested in facts, not hyperbole, whether put out by Republicans or Democrats.  

    And, in case you haven't been reading lately (apparent from your post, since the sale of home exclusion has been around for some twenty years), Clinton is no longer in the race. 

    For those who really want to know what is what regarding taxes, here is a website you can visit.  Or just Google this subject and you'll find plenty of others.  Do check the source of the information, though, so you're not getting fed propaganda, whether from McCain or Obama.  They're both generating lots of lies in their attempts to become president.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/subjects/taxes/

  • anneshirley
    anneshirley Member Posts: 1,110
    edited June 2008

    Spar, Your last remark on socialized medicine deserves a post of its own.  The U.S. is rated in the mid- to low-thirities (as I remember 38 but that's more than a year ago) in terms of quality of health care to its citizens (that's all its citizens, not just those with health insurance--fewer every day in this country).  Not sure what third-world countries you're referring to.  We're already down there and sinking faster.  France, rated number one for quality for as many years as I can remember, is able to care for all its citizens and at a cost of half what the U.S. spends on health care. 

    Please post the misrepresentations and in some case (if truth be told) lies on other threads. We frequently disagree on this thread, but generally most posters stick to facts, whether supporting McCain or Obama.  We are not fools, although apparently you think we are. 

  • spar2
    spar2 Member Posts: 6,827
    edited June 2008

    Boy, did I offend someone.  I got the information from a friend of mine who is a dentist and a pharmacist and into politics so I thought the info was genuine.  Since this was suppose to be a respectful thread where I thought we could post what we thought was the truth.  I will not be back on this thread so dear ladies - disagree and bicker to your hearts content.  May the best president win.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited June 2008

    I do have to agree that we should check the facts first that we receive in an email.  I have not checked Spar's post, but I wouldn't send it on unless I did.  I've received many emails that were blatantly false.

    I don't think McCain is pandering because he now will keep the tax cuts.  I think he saw that it worked.  Just like he's now for drilling for oil.  That's because we are going above four bucks a gallon AND we are being held hostage by OPEC.  We need to drill, and we need to get busy with alternative energy.  None of these options is going to help us RIGHT NOW.  But why wait and say 10 years from now that it'll take 10 years to get oil or alternative energy.  Can't everyone agree that we need to do both?

    We would have much better health care if the insurance companies couldn't TELL our doctors what to do.  Our primary doc told my husband that it takes 1 1/2 hours of his time every day answering United Health Care's questions...that's who, unfortunately, we now have..and I HATE IT!  He has some older patients..even older than us!  Many of them have a supplement with United Healthcare who are on Medicare.  Our stupid insurance is through At&T (after they bought out Bell South).  Anyway, he said something about not taking patients with United anymore...perhaps he means when his patients die.  I don't know, but he's was fed up with the company.  He said he was getting tired of their "SH&T!"  Yep, he used that word.  LOL  Insurance companies need to be held accountable and should not be able to tell a doc how to practice.  Some idiot that doesn't know crap is sitting at a dest, reading something they don't even understand questioning our doctors.  That's my rant!

    Shirley

  • anneshirley
    anneshirley Member Posts: 1,110
    edited June 2008

    Shirley--you're right, but there are other reasons we have so many problems with our health care system, insurance companies being just one.  (I have Oxford, which was recently purchased by United, but so far no real problems--knock wood!)  I don't have time to list all the reasons, so I won't list any.  Yes, you and I, and others, disagree lots, but I don't believe our disagreements have ever been over facts, just our individual interpretations of those facts, which is certainly legit.  But posting as fact what is not is, I think, not good on any thread, whether political or cancer-related.  If calling someone out for posting information as fact--and it's not--is bickering, then so be it.  I'll bicker until death, hopefully a while yet.

    Also, Shirley, with respect to your comment on McCain chainging his mind.  I disagree on the tax cuts; of course, I don't read minds but I don't believe his change has anything to do with the tax breaks working (we have a huge deficit, remember, and we're also in a recession, no matter what Bush says, so technically they're not working).  I think he's pandering on that issue. 

    On drilling for oil, I think it's fine for him to have changed his mind; not sure if drilling is the best solution, but people (including politicians) have not only the right to change their minds; one hopes they will under the right circumstances.  For most of Obama's flip flops (what I consider them to be) and most of McCain's, they are not true changes of mind because of outside circumstances, but because they're pandering to get votes, which I find offensive.  Unfortunately, most voters prefer not to hear the truth, so if a politician tells them the way it is, he or she won't get elected.  Catch 22, isn't it? 

    Madalyn--I'm like you, in that I used to let lots of inaccuracies slide, but finally decided to fight back.  I think fighting back is better.  Thanks for posting websites.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited June 2008

    Anne, as far as fact checking...I learned to do that on another forum that I used to belong to.  It was a Tampa Bay forum.  I was "taught" to do that or be embarrassed. LOL  I have remained friends (via email) with a few of the people there.  And let me tell you, some of us see things very differently, but respect each other's views. 

    I often get things in the email that I check before sending it on IF I want to send it.  I usually use Snopes site.

    As far as a recession...I don't know if it has been declared as of yet.  However, how could we not be doing pretty poorly with the price of oil.  I was in the kitchen today and had the TV on in the den.  I heard something about schools having to cut their routes shorter because of the gas prices.  I think they said it was costing an extra $33,000 a year.

    I truly believe that McCain has changed his mind on drilling because of our circumstance.  I know you will not agree with me, but that's okay.  We cannot be held hostage by OPEC.  I also think the tax cuts worked when Bush implemented them. Now it takes everything we have to pruchase gas, clothes, groceries just to name a few.

    I think of flip-flops like Obama agreeing with the Supreme Court on guns when he was against guns.  And, of course, there's others but I'm too tired to think of them right now.

    I received this in my email today.  I check it out and it seems to be true.  Thought this was very interesting considering Gore is such an environmentalist.  I checked out snopes..here's the link: 

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/house.asp

    A Tale of Two Houses

    "House #1
    A 20 room mansion (not including 8 bathrooms) heated by natural gas. Add on a pool (and a pool house) and a separate guest house, all heated by gas. In one month this residence consumes more energy than the average American household does in a year. The average bill for electricity and natural gas runs over $2400 per month. In natural gas alone, this property consumes more than 20 times the national average for an American home. This house is not situated in a Northern or Midwestern 'snow belt' area. It's in the South.

    House #2
    Designed by an architecture professor at a leading national university. This house incorporates every 'green' feature current home construction can provide. The house is 4,000 square feet (4 bedrooms) and is nestled on a high prairie in the American southwest. A central closet in the house holds geothermal heat-pumps drawing ground water through pipes sunk 300 feet into the ground.

    The water (usually 67 degrees F) heats the house in the winter and cools it in the summer. The system uses no fossil fuels such as oil or natural gas and it consumes one-quarter electricity required for a conventional heating/cooling system. Rainwater from the roof is collected and funneled into a 25,000 gallon underground cistern. Wastewater from showers, sinks and toilets goes into underground purifying tanks and then into the cistern. The collected water then irrigates the land surrounding the house. Surrounding flowers and shrubs native to the area enable the property to blend into the surrounding rural landscape.

    ~~~~~



    HOUSE #1 is outside of Nashville, Tennessee; it is the abode of the 'environmentalist' Al Gore.

    HOUSE #2 is on a ranch near Crawford, Texas; it is the residence the of the President of the United States, George W. Bush.

    An 'inconvenient truth.' "

  • anneshirley
    anneshirley Member Posts: 1,110
    edited June 2008

    Shirley--I did not write that McCain is offering off-shore drilling as a panderer.  I believe I said that in that case he may have legitimately changed his mind because of circumstances, I'm just not sure that I agree with it.  Not sure I disagree either.  I do believe the change on taxes was a case of "get votes, drop principles."

    If the above is true of both Bush and Gore then they both should be very ashamed of themselves.  I remember reading that Gore pays back in a green tax, but can't be sure.  But even so, building huge environmentally gluttonous homes is irresponsible. But if Bush knows the importance of protecting the environment in his own life and still refuses to let the United States lead in saving the environment (he's done just the opposite) causing great distress to the planet, he is equally, if not more, to blame.  He won't be here no doubt when millions of people in Bangledesh die because of rising ocean waters, caused in huge part by Americans and not by the people who will die.  Not to say, many Americans won't die as well as the planet starts kicking back.  

    Further, I clicked on "energy use" in the article you cite and there is an explanation regarding Gore's carbon footprint.  I couldn't copy it, but if anyone wants to read the article, click on Shirley's site and then on "energy use" for a further explanation.  There are some mitigating factors there, since both he and his wife have their offices in their home, and also it appears he uses renewable energy where it's available and is currently installing solar panels on his home.  That he didn't install them initially certainly merits some criticism. 

    It would be impossible for the vast majority of Americans to follow Bush's example, since the cost of building is prohibitive, and as the article mentions, much of what he did, he did to save his own money, and because water is scarce where he lives in Texas.

    So neither short story in the article is the whole story. 

    From the pictures of both homes, I dislike them both.  Gore's is very pretentious and Bush's, well what can I say, beyond ugly. 

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited June 2008

    Anne, you are correct.  Most people cannot afford to have the same energy savers as Bush did.  And, in my opinion. if you don't like Bush it doesn't make any difference what he did...he'll be criticized one way or another...like, saving money.  I would really love to hear the reasons why HE chose to install these energy savers.

    As far as Gore, I won't even comment on him.

    Shirley

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited June 2008

    Madalyn, my whole point is.....we need to drill and not be beholding to our enemies.  And, yes, they're our enemies.  They hate us.  And we also need to go to affordable alternatives.  I'm not disputing that.

    Seems like a little ole 4,000 sq ft house makes Bush happy.  He doesn't need a mansion like Gore et al.  However, Bush's house is twice the size as mine.  Four thousand sq feet to me would be huge. LOL

    Back to the oil.  We will not be off oil for a long, long time.  How about those school buses?  And truckers..do you think an 18 wheeler is going to run on a battery any time soon?  And, when I see the commercial for the car that is powered by water...we'll run out of water on this planet.  And, when they come out with more hybrids they'll be priced so high that many people will not be able to afford them.  You've got people driving old cars because they cannot afford another car.

    I'm ALL for drilling.  It may not help us immediately, but then on the other hand it may.  When our dear friends see that we are serious about being energy independent...hmmmm...they may just decided to come down on their prices and produce more.

    We could debate about this subject until the cows come home.  No one's minds are going to be changed.  We have our own opinions...just like who's best suited to be our president..Obama or McCain.

    Shirley

  • anneshirley
    anneshirley Member Posts: 1,110
    edited June 2008

    Shirley,

    With all due respect, because someone doesn't follow his or her own advice does not, in any way, make that advice incorrect.  Whether or not Gore conserves the planet's resources, doesn't in any way nullify his positive position on global warming.  And if Bush does indeed follow conservation measures in his own life, he's done everything to prevent others from following them in his public position, which is what counts.  Both are hypocrites.

    On another issue:  During the 2000 Republican campaign for the nomination, Bush's cohorts attacked McCain's military record, even accusing him of being a traitor.  And later in 2004, they attacked Kerry's record. Both cases were disgusting, and made me somewhat sympathetic to McCain, until he hugged Bush instead of knocking him down.  Now the Obama campaign is doing the same to McCain.  I'm just now listening to Obama at this moment say he'll never question the patriotism of others.  This, after Wesley Clark, acting as his surrogate, said of McCain,  "I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president."   Of course, Clark is right, but what a disgusting thing to say, and how disgusting that he said it on behalf of Obama.

    It appears that we'll have the gold standard in hypocrisy in the White House in 2009. Lucky us.

  • Jaybird627
    Jaybird627 Member Posts: 2,144
    edited July 2008

    Well, it seems this thread is dead since both the Obama and McCain supporters have their own thread. Oh, it's just all SO sad.....

    I suppose we could turn this into an "I'm voting independently" thread. Undecided

    Even my 71 year old mother, ex-republican that she is, is writing in Hillary's name!

  • anneshirley
    anneshirley Member Posts: 1,110
    edited July 2008

    Jaybird---you can post on any thread.  Don't let anyone bully you. There are no sororities on this board.  I probably won't be posting much for a while, as I've let my own work slide for too long.  Good news is that I found out today that the reason for my slide--worried about a recurrence--is no longer a worry.  Got good news from my biopsy, so back to work.  However, I'll pop in once in a while to put my two cents in, and so should  you. 

    It appears that only a small number of us believe that we need more than two parties in this country.  However, depending on the results of this election that could change in four years, hopefully it will change. 

  • Jaybird627
    Jaybird627 Member Posts: 2,144
    edited July 2008

    Anneshirley, truly up until this current 'election' (a loose term IMO) I never really thought much about about our two-party system. Well, I did think about it somewhat but I've always supported my party's candidate - until now! I was Bill Clinton all the way and Gore, too! Now? WTF???

    I was raised to think like a Republican (see my post above) but finally started thinking for myself at around age 20. Nader's name has been kicked around for some time now - perhaps I should have been thinking more 'independently' sooner???

    Or maybe I'll just move to a foreign country and watch what happens here in the United States.

  • Beesie
    Beesie Member Posts: 12,240
    edited July 2008

    Jaybird, you're welcome up here in Canada.  We have a birds eye view.  Not sure we're far enough away though.  We get most of the aftershocks of anything that happens in the U.S. but there's nothing we can do about it.

    Anneshirley, congrats on the biopsy results.  That's great news!   Yes!

  • Jaybird627
    Jaybird627 Member Posts: 2,144
    edited July 2008

    Oh, yes - great news Anneshirley!!! I'm just past my 3-year post-chemo anniversary so all milestones and no-cancer reports should be celebrated!

    Beesie, if ya had warmer weather I'd be there in a heartbeat! I hate Chicago winter's but the other 3 seasons are tolerable, if not divine! But I think I'd rather live in France or Spain.....

  • Beesie
    Beesie Member Posts: 12,240
    edited July 2008

    Oh, can I join you in France or Spain?  I'd rather be there too!

  • anneshirley
    anneshirley Member Posts: 1,110
    edited July 2008

    Thanks both, and Beesie, great to see you here again.  Not cancer: what a relief! I was so sure the lump on my breast was a skin met--very strange looking, but doctor says it's probably result of radiation, but definitely not cancer.  Jay--three years is great.  I'm two years this month, on the 13th (surgery date), but I'm also HER2 positive, so recurrence rate is high.

    We may go back to Italy.  We've put our house in Maine up for sale (nice house at good price if anyone's interested).  It's too cold here (Beesie, you'll understand), and we're still not into summer, or at least not summer as I know it.  I'll have to wait a bit--maybe one more year to be comfortable, but I do miss Italy. And I have residence there until July 2010, with medical insurance.

  • Jaybird627
    Jaybird627 Member Posts: 2,144
    edited July 2008

    Beesie, I'm headed to Italy tomorrow - I'll give that country some serious thought, too! Wink I've been to Rome and now I'm of to Milan. I'll be in Paris (my fave city) at the end of the month and cannot wait!!! No, Europeans don't have it any better than we do here in the United States but do they really have it any worse?

    AS (may I call you that??? Smile) I'm BRCA2+ so MY recurrance is high, too. I just choose to igfnore that 'fact'!

    Happy voting!

  • anneshirley
    anneshirley Member Posts: 1,110
    edited July 2008

    I really do envy you.  We've had our wood-burning stove on most nights, and lots of rain, although Italy can get really hot in July.  I don't know Milan very well--only been there twice and had my wallet lifted right before we were to leave for the airport, but it still didn't spoil our trip.  Someone used my AE card to charge 1500 in perfume.  Can you imagine?

    AS is fine, just don't accidentally hit the S key twice.  I'm a bit of a coward but I'm trying your way--ignore the fear, but it was really difficult when this thing popped out of my breast.

    Venice is my favorite city and where we'll probably end up, and Paris is my husband's.  But I prefer the food in France.  Have a great trip. 

  • anneshirley
    anneshirley Member Posts: 1,110
    edited July 2008

    Jay, About Nader (you may not read this if you're off to Italy today) but . . .  Unfortunately, now that he's run so many years, he's no longer a viable candidate.  He's become more of a protest candidate that Greens and others on the left can vote for in protest.  But protest candidates rarely get enough votes to make a difference in our system, although Nader did make a difference in 2000 (and, unfortunately, not a good one).  But I'd love to see an independent run who has an actual chance in the general.  It would have to be someone like Bloomberg, who is known generally in the country and has the money to run without help from lobbyists, etc.  Now that the Supreme Court did away with the millionaire penalty, it even has some legs.  There was talk of him running as an independent (and talk that Chuck Hagel had asked him to run as his VP) but that faded away. 

    I thnk the only way we'll get a viable independent party is for it to start slowly and build over ten years or so.  I think it's good for the country.  We have only two ways to vote now, and lately it seems the Democrats are not much different from the Republicans (think Jim Webb, from Virginia).  Two more parties would be even better, one to the left ot the Democrats and one that moves to the middle.  What we don't need is what happens in Italy.  I was doing some research recently and found that it has 100 parties on the left.  I have no idea how many on the right, but they're always having elections when a coalition breaks down.

     Beesie--how many parties do you have in Canada?

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