The Brand New Respectful Presidential Campaign Thread

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited April 2008

    Puppy, love the cat.  It's bigger than mine.  I was scared it was going to jump out of the monitor.

  • saluki
    saluki Member Posts: 2,287
    edited April 2008

    Shirley--- Loved Craig Fergusan giving it to the New York Times.

    The reason they gave for not attending was chutzbah.

  • anneshirley
    anneshirley Member Posts: 1,110
    edited April 2008

    Puppy: Love the cat--how old is he, she?  Very cute!

    Grace:  I am dying for something sweet after reading your description of your granddaugher's cake.  Nice party! 

    Here's the most recent poll--Hillary is pulling ahead with all groups, except one, and that one is still with McCain.  Finally happening, and let's face it ladies, we all know that women do the job, whatever it is, beside lifting and outdoor work, better than men. 

    And if any of you have ever watched that English garden show (where a group comes in and redoes someone's garden in one day) you'll know that even there some women (I'm thinking of the redhead) are just better, even at the heavy lifting. 

    AP Poll: Clinton leads McCain, doing better than Obama

    By LIZ SIDOTI – 1 hour ago

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Hillary Rodham Clinton now leads John McCain by 9 points in a head-to-head presidential matchup, according to an Associated Press-Ipsos poll that bolsters her argument that she is more electable than Democratic rival Barack Obama.

    Obama and Republican McCain are running about even.

    The survey released Monday gives the New York senator and former first lady a fresh talking point as she works to raise much-needed campaign cash and persuade pivotal undecided superdelegates to side with her in the drawn-out Democratic primary fight.

    Helped by independents, young people and seniors, Clinton gained ground this month in a hypothetical match with Sen. McCain, the GOP nominee-in-waiting. She now leads McCain, 50 percent to 41 percent, while Obama remains virtually tied with McCain, 46 percent to 44 percent.

    Both Democrats were roughly even with McCain in the previous poll about three weeks ago.

    Since then, Clinton won the Pennsylvania primary, raising questions anew about whether Obama can attract broad swaths of voters needed to triumph in such big states come the fall when the Democratic nominee will go up against McCain. At the same time, Obama was thrown on the defensive by his comment that residents of small-town America were bitter. The Illinois senator also continued to deal with the controversial remarks of his longtime Chicago pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

    "I don't think there's any question that over the last three weeks her stature has improved," said Harrison Hickman, a Democratic pollster unaligned in the primary. He attributed Clinton's gains to people moving from the "infatuation stage" of choosing the candidate they like the most to a "decision-making stage" where they determine who would make the best president.

    Added Steve Lombardo, a GOP pollster: "This just reinforces the sentiment that a lot of Republican strategists are having right now — that Clinton might actually be the more formidable fall candidate for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that Obama can't seem to get his footing back."

    The AP-Ipsos poll found Clinton and Obama about even in the race for the Democratic nomination. Underscoring deep divisions within the Democratic Party — and a potentially negative longer-term impact — 30 percent of Clinton supporters and 21 percent of Obama supporters said they would vote for McCain in November if their preferred candidate didn't win the nomination.

    Obama leads Clinton in pledged delegates, but she has the advantage among superdelegates with about a third yet to make up their minds.

    Democratic Party Chairman Howard Dean said Monday that one of the two must drop out of the race after the primary season wraps up in June so Democrats can unite before the late-summer convention and the fall campaign.

    He also urged undecided superdelegates — members of the Democratic National Committee as well as Democratic governors and members of Congress — to side with either Clinton or Obama before the August convention so the party can come together to take on McCain. The Arizona senator clinched the GOP nomination last month and has been campaigning freely since.

    Nearly half the people in the AP-Ipsos poll said the protracted Democratic primary will hurt their party's chances in November; more Obama supporters than Clinton backers said they had that fear.

    Overall, people said they trusted Clinton and Obama about the same to handle Iraq and the economy; McCain got similar ratings on Iraq but trailed both Democrats on the economy. And while roughly the same percentage of people said they trusted both Democrats to understand their problems, fewer trusted McCain.

    When pitted against McCain, Clinton now wins among independents, 50 percent to 34 percent, when just a few weeks ago she ran about even with him with this crucial group of voters. Clinton also now does better among independents than Obama does in a matchup with McCain.

    Clinton has a newfound edge among seniors, too, 51 percent to 39 percent; McCain had previously had the advantage. And, Clinton has improved her margin over McCain among people under age 30; two-thirds of them now side with her. McCain leads Obama among seniors, while Obama leads McCain among those under 30 but by a smaller margin than Clinton does.

    She also now leads among Catholics, always an important swing voting group in a general election, and improved her standing in the South as well as in cities and among families making under $25,000 a year. But she lost ground among families making between $50,000 and $100,000; they narrowly support McCain.

    The poll, taken April 23-27, questioned 1,001 adults nationally, with a margin of error of 3.1 percent. Included were interviews with 457 Democratic voters and people leaning Democratic, with a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 4.6 points, and 346 Republicans or GOP-leaning voters, with a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 5.3 points.


  • Rosemary44
    Rosemary44 Member Posts: 2,660
    edited April 2008

    That's quite a jump for her.  I wonder what the other polls are saying?  Some polls have her leading in Indiana by quite a few points and others have her tied with Obama there.  If she wins in Obama territory that will be a heads up for the superdelegates also.

  • saluki
    saluki Member Posts: 2,287
    edited April 2008

    Frankly, Anne Shirley---I'm wondering if Fox knows that Hillary will be a much better candidate against McCain---Not that you watch Fox.  LOL

    But if you did you would see that they let Dick Morris run amok.  This week the man is trying to link Hillary with the PLO--not that I haven't received this dirt before not from Republicans but from Democrats.

    They truly went amazingly easy on Obama Sunday.  I think Republicans

    would much rather run against him.  And McCain  --no question about it .

    He does not like Obama.  ---and doesn't believe he can work across the aisles.  Hillary can.  

    I can't help but believe Fox would like to see Obama be the nominee.

    I can't believe I actually heard the pundits on CNN today say that they will follow Dick Morris's advise in determining the nominee!!!!!!!!

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited April 2008

    I too think that Obama would be the easiest candidate to beat.  Just in case he was beaten, I'd rather see Hillary as president.

  • anneshirley
    anneshirley Member Posts: 1,110
    edited April 2008

    Susie--I missed the reference to the New York Times.  What did they not attend?  Curious!

  • anneshirley
    anneshirley Member Posts: 1,110
    edited April 2008

    Amy--if you're out there and listening, please sign in, if even to just say hello, so everyone knows you're okay.  Must be advancing age, but whenever anyone drops off the face of the earth (and for me that's about a day at most) I think the worst.

  • saluki
    saluki Member Posts: 2,287
    edited April 2008

    Here was NYT's reasoning

    "These events can create a false perception that reporters and their sources are pals, and that perception could cloud our credibility," Spokeswoman Diane McNulty wrote. "It's not worth it."

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Like their credibility isn't already in question? Wink

    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    A little excerpt from Ferguson:

    He then gutted the New York Times for having, in his opinion, a holier-than-thou attitude:

    "Oh, the New York Times. The New York Times unfortunately did not buy a table. They felt, I just want to make sure I got this right, they felt this event undercut the credibility of the press. It's funny. You see, I thought that Jayson Blair and Judi Miller took care of that."

    (Ferguson got one of his biggest laughs at this point.)

    "...Well, let me try this, shut the hell up New York Times, you sanctimonious, whining jerks. Look for my good review there coming up soon. I'm guessing Monday morning. 'He's a star.'

    Actually, that wasn't just Ferguson's opinion. He tapped into a sentiment held by journalists in the room who thought the NYT might be missing the ethical forest for the trees on this one. Also, what does that make the rest of us, stenographers for the administration? (I know I'm inviting trouble with that question. As the president might say "Bring it on.")

    He made an allusion to the ABC News presidential debate in Philadelphia between Sen. Barack Obama and Sen. Hillary Clinton and seemed to giving a noogie to ABC News's handling of the debate which many saw as unfair to Sen. Barack Obama:

    "Listen, I don't envy the person who wins the Democratic nomination for the presidency because they, he or she will face the full force of the Republican attack machine come the election. Bill Kristol, Bob Novack, George Stephanapoulos.

    But that could also be read as a knock on the liberal critics of Stephanapoulos and Charlie Gibson, too.

    He skewered the president. Looking at Bush he said:

    You're retiring as a young man. What does a president do? You could look for a job with more vacation time.

    There was this additional Cheney joke:

    "Tonight we mark the end of an era. George W. Bush leaves in eight months. The vice president is already moving out of his residence. It takes longer than you think to pack up an entire dungeon." 

  • saluki
    saluki Member Posts: 2,287
    edited April 2008

    AnneShirley--Thought this would give you a charge-especially coming from

    CNN. Surprised  Where do these people get all this Venom?

    -----------------

    NPR's Rudin: "Hillary Clinton is Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction. She's going to keep coming back and they're not going to stop her"

    Summary: During a discussion on CNN about the Democratic presidential primary race, NPR's Ken Rudin stated: "[L]et's be honest here, Hillary Clinton is Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction. She's going to keep coming back, and they're not going to stop her."

    On the April 27 edition of CNN's Sunday Morning, National Public Radio political editor Ken Rudin, during a discussion about the Democratic presidential primary race, stated: "[L]et's be honest here, [Sen.] Hillary Clinton is Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction. She's going to keep coming back, and they're not going to stop her." In response, co-host T.J. Holmes said: "What, Ken?" Rudin replied: "Well, we'll figure that out, there's a lot of ways to imagine that." Rudin returned to the analogy later, stating of Clinton, "[T]here may be a lot of pressure on her from the party bigwigs, whoever they are, to say, look, it's time to go, but she'll say, look, I'm in it until the end. I expect her to be in until the end, as Glenn Close was."

    At the conclusion of the interview, Holmes stated to Rudin, "We know you were at the correspondents' dinner last night in D.C., where the president was, and hear you all had a pretty good time. But you look good this morning for partying all night." Rudin replied: "I'm faking it." Co-host Betty Nguyen added: "Maybe that explains the Glenn Close analogy, who knows?" Holmes then stated: "Fatal Attraction, we don't get that reference on this show a lot."

    In the 1987 film, Close plays a woman who begins stalking her co-worker, played by Michael Douglas, and his family following a one-night stand with him. In the film's climax, Douglas' character seemingly drowns Close's character in the tub, until she suddenly springs from the water wielding a knife. She is finally shot dead by the wife of Douglas' character.

    As Media Matters for America has noted, Monica Crowley, a conservative radio host and panelist on the Public Broadcasting Service's McLaughlin Group, and Atlantic senior editor and blogger Andrew Sullivan have also compared Clinton to Close's character in Fatal Attraction.

    From the April 27 edition of CNN's Sunday Morning:

    HOLMES: Is there any tide turning -- we're talking about [Sen. Barack] Obama, here. Also, he hasn't been able to close the deal out because he's had so many opportunities, many would say, to close it out, to win a big one, to knock her out of this thing, and every time he gets a chance to, he can't do it. Is there any tide turning among people, and by people I guess I mean superdelegates, that hey, wait a minute, let's take a second here, he doesn't seem to be able to close the deal?

    RUDIN: Well, first of all, let's be honest here, Hillary Clinton is Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction. She's going to keep coming back, and they're not going to stop her.

    HOLMES: What, Ken?

    [laughter]

    RUDIN: Well, we'll figure that out, there's a lot of ways to imagine that.

    HOLMES: Yeah, you can.

    RUDIN: But, also if, I think, look, as far back as New Hampshire people were saying, well, you know, if Hillary Clinton loses New Hampshire, it's over. This is still the seventh inning, there is still nine more contests, plenty more to go. But, Pennsylvania, look, the demographics were against Barack Obama from the beginning, in Pennsylvania. It is older, the state is older, it's whiter, it's more women, it's more blue-collar workers. That's been an albatross for Barack Obama.

    Now, coming up on May 6th, North Carolina, certainly more favorable terrain for Barack Obama, perhaps Indiana, as well, and then you still have the other contests. So, there may be some superdelegates who would love this to be over right away and are giving Hillary Clinton a second look, but again, he still leads, you know, he still has the lead, and he could still do very well on May 6th.

    HOLMES: And last thing here on these two before I get to a question about [Sen John] McCain, if Obama pulls off North Carolina, as he is expected to win, and also Indiana, that's still not enough to knock her out of this race?

    RUDIN: No, but nor should it be. I mean, you know, again, you know, there may be a lot of pressure on her from the party bigwigs, whoever they are, to say, look, it's time to go, but she'll say, look, I'm in it until the end. And I expect her to be in until the end, as Glenn Close was.

    HOLMES: As Glenn, yes. And we understood -- we understood the analogy, I think.

    All right. Tell us, McCain, how is he doing with his image right now?

    [...]

    HOLMES: All right, Ken Rudin, National Public Radio political editor, thank you for getting up with us. We know you were at the correspondents' dinner last night in D.C., where the president was, and hear you all had a pretty good time. But you look good this morning for partying all night.

    RUDIN: I'm faking it.

    HOLMES: All right. We'll let you go then.

    RUDIN: Thanks.

    NGUYEN: Well, maybe that explains the Glenn Close analogy, who knows?

    [laughter]

    HOLMES: Fatal Attraction, we don't get that reference on this show a lot.

    NGUYEN: Very rare.

    — E.H.H.

  • shokk
    shokk Member Posts: 1,763
    edited April 2008

    Holy smoke I do not even know where to begin..........of course being an outsider and only watching the Democrats from the sidelines I still can only shake my head in utter disbelief..........I personally always believed that Hillary would be more of an adversary to McCain in the fall.........Obama is just too green.......he does not have the skills yet to play with the big boys and girls.....it does not mean he won't in the future.........it was interesting to listen to Rev Wright's "speech" in front of the Press Club which actually was well versed and delivered but want to talk about a derailment when the question and answer session started..........you really want to believe that his sound bites are looped and played out of "context" but then you realize that the Rev is a few fruit loops short of a full box or the more he spoke several fruit loops short....and what I found the most insulting and maybe Cherryl can give us her insight because well she is black and part of the clergy.......is he was saying this is not an attack of me (the Rev Wright) but an attack of the African American Church.........no its not.........how dare he classify all Black Churches into the Black Liberation Theology Movement........that's like saying all Protestant churches are part of the fundamental Christian movement.........which of course a very small part of Protestant Christians are classified as fundamentalist......but we have not heard the last from Rev. Wright......he is now on a mission to make sure Obama will not be the Democrat nominee so he can say "I told you so" to his "flock" about this country ever electing a Black Person to President.........oh and to all you Hillary supporters congrats on Gov. Easley's endorsement today..........I think she will win Indiana but she might just end up and take NC as well..........Shokk

  • Bren-2007
    Bren-2007 Member Posts: 6,241
    edited April 2008

    I copied this from the Repub thread ...  

    I wish Wright would do a little more current reading and research on the european caucasian religious experience.  Perhaps a little more investigating into the poverty stricken areas, economic and educational concerns ... at least those seen in my part of the country would be more relevant.  I read that entire piece.  How does he hope to achieve unity when his focus is blame?  European Caucasians also sought freedom of religion when coming to America.  Why is it so imperative that we "european americans" have such a deep appreciation and knowledge of the black religious experience to understand Obama. 

    Wright preaches we need to accept our differences and be united.  Good idea.  But I wonder how educated he is on the european caucasian quest for religious freedom in America.

    Let's talk about burning corn for fuel.  A couple of years ago I lived in S.W. Iowa.  Very poor area of the country.  The only folks doing well were the corn and soy bean growers.  And they planted what the govt told them to.  Those folks could not afford the fuel to heat their furnaces.  The big thing at that time, new on the market, were corn burners.  Cheaper and cleaner to burn than wood.  Also, the guys wouldn't have to chop wood all summer ... that is when they could find some wood.  Not a lot of trees out there.  Scavenging for wood was a past-time in the summer.

    So now the govt is growing corn for fuel, not for food. 

    How the hell am I going to afford fuel for my furnace at $3.50 a gal??  I know, I'll buy a corn burner!!!  Wink

  • saluki
    saluki Member Posts: 2,287
    edited April 2008

    My car is going to look strange with a Hillary bumper sticker on one side

    and a McCain sticker on the other.

    I could vote for either depending on their VP pick----If Hillary's VP pick were Obama--I would vote for McCain.  Since my issue with Obama is one of judgment especially in his pick of foreign policy advisers -- I wouldn't want those advisers a heartbeat away from the Presidency.

    I'm still voting for Jindal in McCain's VP sweepstakes.  He made an appearance on Leno last night---did well.---Says he'd like a chance to continue for a second term as Gov. of Louisiana but did not say he'd turn down VP if asked.

    In the meantime Elizabeth Edwards seems to be having some effect in goading McCain into addressing pre-existing conditions.  Lets hope she keeps it up!



    McCain moves to middle on health care
    By: Mike Allen and Jonathan Martin
    April 29, 2008 08:46 AM EST

    Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) is proposing a greater federal commitment to people without health insurance on Tuesday, suggesting that it help funds states to set up non-profit risk pools to help Americans who are denied coverage or can’t afford it.

    McCain’s health-policy experts provided a ballpark estimate of $7 billion a year for the new federal commitment.

    “Cooperation among states in the purchase of insurance would … be a crucial step in ridding the market of both needless and costly regulations, and the dominance in the market of only a few insurance companies,” McCain says in remarks prepared for delivery Tuesday morning in Tampa, Fla.

    McCain is announcing his “Guaranteed Access Plan” on the second day of a “Call To Action” health-care tour that will later take him to Pennsylvania, Ohio, Iowa, and Colorado.

    Until now, McCain has emphasized such conventional conservative measures as tax deductions and malpractice reform. His new stance moves him closer to where former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney was during the primary, an approach McCain had criticized.

    McCain is taking a step beyond tax incentives and tort reform, but not a leap. He is noncommittal in his remarks, pointing to the non-profit organizations as one effective approach that he would discuss with governors.

    Douglas Holtz-Eakin, a former Congressional Budget Office director who’s now a senior policy adviser to McCain, said the announcement reflects the senator’s “commitment to getting this problem solved” and “a world in which we deliver better care at lower cost.”

    “You don’t have to do it with a mandate – he’s not a mandate guy,” Holtz-Eakin said. “He’d like to sit down with the governors and, rather than ram something down their throats, develop – with some discussion and consensus – a best-practice model for getting people coverage when they’re expensive.”

    The board of the non-profit risk pools would include representatives of patients, hospitals, doctors and insurance companies. Insurers would then bid on the business. The reinsurance or high-risk pools he is proposing would be voluntary, and states would be able to combine them into bigger pools.

    “If it turns out to be the case that one of the problems turns out to be not enough money, then [he’d] work with Congress to develop the funding in a sensible and responsible way,” Holtz-Eakin said.

    Other funding would come from a tax credit that McCain has proposed of $2,500 a year for individuals and $5,000 a year for families. The approach counts on savings from reduced hospital walk-ins by the uninsured, and from savings from Medicaid programs for low-income patients.

    Unveiling his plan at the Lee Moffitt Cancer Center & Research Institute at the University of South Florida, McCain is loose on specifics, saying he would “work with Congress, the governors, and industry to make sure that it is funded adequately and has the right incentives to reduce costs such as disease management, individual case management, and health and wellness programs.”

     

    Nevertheless, the announcement helps answer one of the biggest criticisms of McCain’s plan, which relies largely on tax incentives and individual choice to alleviate a health-insurance crisis that has the two Democratic presidential candidates calling for substantial government intervention.

    Critics contend that under new tax incentives McCain has proposed, the richest and healthiest employees would opt out of their current coverage, leaving employers covering the sickest workers – those with preexisting conditions -- and likely lead companies to stop offering coverage. Individuals with pre-existing conditions who no longer have access to coverage through the workplace would have difficulty finding affordable coverage. These new federally-funded high-risk pools are an effort to address that concern by making coverage more available to some of those who might not be able to find coverage on their own.

    On chronic diseases, McCain plans to support giving the Food and Drug Administration the explicit power to regulate nicotine – an authority that the FDA now assumes but that tobacco companies have challenged in court, and points to the cost benefits of helping people quit smoking .

    McCain’s plan for risk pools does not specify exactly who would be eligible for the pooled coverage. “You could have a pool and have it just be for people who were denied, or … you could open it up to anyone who wanted to buy in that pool voluntarily, so small businesses could go in,” Holtz-Eakin said. “You could get individuals if they wanted, and that would produce a more robust pool, clearly.”

    Already, 33 states have high-risk pools, with 190,361 enrollees at the end of last year, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. They have had mixed results, according to health policy experts.

    Holtz-Eakin said of these experiments: “Not all of them are working very well, but some are.”

    In McCain’s remarks, he continues to emphasize a free-market approach to health care, saying that “cooperation among states in the purchase of insurance would also be a crucial step in ridding the market of both needless and costly regulations, and the dominance in the market of only a few insurance companies.”

    “There are those who are convinced that the solution is to move closer to a nationalized health care system,” he says. “They urge universal coverage, with all the tax increases, new mandates, and government regulation that come along with that idea. But in the end this will accomplish one thing only. We will replace the inefficiency, irrationality, and uncontrolled costs of the current system with the inefficiency, irrationality, and uncontrolled costs of a government monopoly. … The key to real reform is to restore control over our health-care system to the patients themselves.”

    Holtz-Eakin said the health-policy experts who helped write McCain’s plan include Stephen T. Parente, a health economist at the University of Minnesota; Thomas P. Miller, a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute who is a former congressional health economist; Regina E. Herzlinger of Harvard Business School., whose biography notes that Money magazine dubbed her the “godmother” of consumer-driven health care; and Rep. Michael C. Burgess (R-Tex.) an obstetrician-gynecologist and second-generation physician.

    © 2007 Capitol News Company, LLC
       
     

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited April 2008

    If Wright is so popular, maybe there are alot of people that believe what he says.  Do you think that there is a possibility that ACCIDENTLY the US scientists could have done it ...I can't imagine the horror that they would purposely do it.  I also think that the facts show this came from Africa not here.

    "Wright recently retired from the church. He became an issue in Obama's presidential bid when videos circulated of Wright condemning the U.S. government for allegedly racist and genocidal acts. In the videos, some several years old, Wright called on God to "damn America." He also said the government created the AIDS virus to destroy "people of color.""

  • Paulette531
    Paulette531 Member Posts: 738
    edited April 2008

    I do not believe in any way shape or form that scientists are responsible for Aids in the black community. I am sure they get it the same way as others, unprotected sex, sharing needles from drugs, etc. I read a long time ago it originated in Haiti and came to the U.S. (California) through an airline steward that was gay.

  • Paulette531
    Paulette531 Member Posts: 738
    edited April 2008

    That BIG cat picture needs to be edited to make it smaller, it is screwing up the lines!

  • shokk
    shokk Member Posts: 1,763
    edited April 2008
    Ok Hillary supporters.........Hillary will be on Bill O'Riley tomorrow night..........for all you liberals that have the FoxNews channel blocked........check you local times......O'Riley comes on 7 pm central standard time.........I still hate science........ShokkCool
  • Beesie
    Beesie Member Posts: 12,240
    edited April 2008

    Here is some history on AIDS, including a number of theories on how it may have started.  This article even references the "conspiracy theory" and says that there are "a significant number of African Americans who believe HIV was manufactured as part of a biological warfare programme, designed to wipe out large numbers of black and homosexual people" but then goes on to say "(w)hile none of these theories can be definitively disproved, the evidence given to back them up is usually based upon supposition and speculation, and ignores the clear link between SIV and HIV or the fact that the virus has been identified in people as far back as 1959".

    Way back when, I had heard the "flight steward" theory too.  This was a big story at the time in Canada because the so-called "Patient Zero" was a guy named Gaetan Dugas, a Canadian who worked as a flight steward for Air Canada (just what we want to be known for!).  But this article suggests that the spread of AIDs started before Gaetan got around to spreading it (although from my understanding, he certainly did a lot of spreading).

    http://www.avert.org/origins.htm

  • saluki
    saluki Member Posts: 2,287
    edited April 2008

    If you want to really know how the Aids epidemic started rent-

    And The Band Played On with Matthew Modine, Alan Alda, Richard Gere and many others in a great adaption of Randy Shilt's well researched book.

    It is an amazing piece to watch.  I guarantee you will be shocked, outraged and moved.

  • Beesie
    Beesie Member Posts: 12,240
    edited April 2008

    Back to politics, here are the latest polls:

    • The Gallup national poll has a virtual tie between Clinton and Obama (average of daily polls over the past 5 days).
    • The two most recent polls in Indiana give Clinton the lead by 8 or 9 points. 
    • The most recent polls in NC show Obama with a lead, but he has lost anywhere from 5 points to 10 points over the past couple of weeks.
    • In the head-to-heads with McCain, both Clinton & Obama lead McCain in every poll taken over the past 10 days.  Obama's lead over this time averages 1.8 points; his largest lead in any survey over this time is 3 points.  Clinton's lead over this time averages 3.5 points; her largest lead is 9 points in the AP-Ipso poll. 

    Well, with these results I can really see why so many of the pundits and the Democratic leadership continue to call for Clinton to step down.  Or, at minimum, if they aren't requesting that she leave the race, they are suggesting that the SuperDelegates hurry up and make their decision (in accordance with the pledged delegate count, of course, i.e. declare for Obama).  Is it just me, or does anyone else have the feeling that many within the Democratic leadership realize that the party has backed the wrong horse but they now feel cornered and just want to make this whole thing go away?  Declare Obama the victor now! quickly! please! before anyone else realizes that he's not the better candidate and he really is very flawed.  Phleeeezzee!!

    Ouch Club Me

    Humor aside, I find the whole mess quite pathetic and sad.

  • saluki
    saluki Member Posts: 2,287
    edited April 2008

    Shokk--Regarding Hillary's appearance on O'Reilly---Will they be able to muzzle Dick Morris for the night?????

  • saluki
    saluki Member Posts: 2,287
    edited April 2008

    Adding to the mystery is the pollsters especially Rasmussen say Obama does not poll true.  And that is even more glaring in exit polls.

  • Rosemary44
    Rosemary44 Member Posts: 2,660
    edited April 2008

    The Obama/Wright chronicles that are ongoing, and ongoing and ongoing, might give the superdelegates a pause.  When I didn't think much more could come out before the N.C. primary, how wrong was I?

    So we have to go through the dog and pony show of: no I didn't know he said that during sermons, and I'm offended, and watch some more of Wright dancing around the podium and having a grand old time of it.  In my eyes, the man isn't electable anymore.  In the superdelegates eyes, who knows. 

  • shokk
    shokk Member Posts: 1,763
    edited April 2008

    Susie............ha...........they will have to lock him out of the building.........Shokk

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited April 2008

    I've been critiquing some of Obama's statements today.  I watched it.

    One part of me feels sorry for him.  The other says how could you have not known your pastor was controverial?

    He was asked why he joined a "liberation theology" church.  I'm sure I didn't quote that right.  But, he says he was no theologian..something like that.  But, c'mon.  He's smart enough to know what the church stood for. 

    Then Wright says, he does what he does, and I do what I do.  That disrespected Obama according to Obama.  Wright said the same thing on Bill Moyers...as if to say Obama is "posturing."  Didn't he hear that on Moyers' show?  Certainly his aides watch everything this Wright does.

    He also says the man he thought he knew wasn't the same man.  Okay, is that lack of judgment?  And Wright said that he had prayer with Obama in the basement of the same building (or wherever) before Obama announced his candidacy.  Would someone please tell me what a spiritual adivser is?

    And the Farrakhan thing..Wright says that Farrakhan had the greatest voice in the 20th century.  Well, no surprise.  Wright's church gave him somekind of award...and we're to believe that Obama didn't know that or the meaning of that award?

    I think when Wright called Obama "a liar" (my words about posturing) that did it.  As far as his "performance," as Obama puts it about yesterday's spectacle, he performed the same ways on the snippets that we have seen.

    I don't think any of us cared about how loud Wright preached.  There are many churches that do that.  It's what the man had to say.

    Is Wright trying to "derail" Obama.  If so, I'd stay so far away from that man.

    Over a year ago Hannity had Wright on his show.  I didn't see the entire program only snippets.  But what I did see showed his true colors.

    He's a divisive man.  I don't care how much "good works" he and his church have done.  Our goal is for all of us to be unified.  Black, White, Asian, Hispanic, et al.  And of course I'm not so naive as to think there are people who are so racist that they would NEVER vote for a black man.  Hopefully, as we evolve more and more we can get over this racist attitude.  However, it's going to have to be done by ALL races.  And we need to start teaching this in our homes.

    This election IS a mess!

    Shirley

  • Paulette531
    Paulette531 Member Posts: 738
    edited April 2008

    Well, one thing is for sure, there appears to be no love between them any longer. Do you think Wright is trying to sabotage Obama?

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited April 2008

    I don't know if Wright's trying to sabotage Obama or if Wright's on an ego trip.  You have to wonder why Obama came out swinging much harder against Wright than he did in Pennsylvania.

  • Rosemary44
    Rosemary44 Member Posts: 2,660
    edited April 2008

    I know, I wondered the same thing, why now?  The sudden turn on his "uncle" seems a bit self serving at this time.  What we saw the other day wasn't just sound bites.  We saw the man in his full glory acting the fool saying nothing different then what he said during his sermons.  I even saw a clip of him dancing around during his sermons, so what suddenly changed?  Difference is now we're watching and Obama can't defend him any longer.  He shouldn't have defended him in the first place.  Any reasonable man would have walked away when he first heard his rantings but I'll bet Wright was instrumental in getting him elected to the State Senate a couple of times.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited April 2008

    I dont think Obama can make excuses for his relationship with Wright.  So the last 20 years mean nothing?  He referred to this goof ball as his mentor! 

    It is a disgusting spectacle, but I believe on both of their parts.  If Obama didnt have this strong affiliation, we would never have this Wright guy in our homes.  His words are very scary.

  • Rosemary44
    Rosemary44 Member Posts: 2,660
    edited April 2008

    I'm still waiting for Wright's reply.  Is he going to let his nephew have the last word?  Stay tuned to our national daytime drama.  While I'm waiting I'll take a peek at the N.C. polls and see if this is making a dent in Obama's teflon armor.

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