Presidential debates on ABC right now-both parties
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Cherryl also wrote about being a social worker and how trying to get the African Americans, and/or possiby whites (I'm not sure who she worked with was mixed) out of the "system" and on their own feet (I'm paraphrasing) beat her down (paraphrasing again). I can't remember if her post was on this thread or the other one.
African Americans are no worse than many whites. Not all whites nudge their children. Or care about their children. We see abuse all the time on the news.
Again, there's no simple solution to these problems. IMO we don't have enough people working in the system, or they don't get paid enough, and it can be so hard to get through to people OF ANY RACE.
BTW, my oldest daughter was excellent in math. She got a Math degree from Wake Forest. I have to laugh because she never used it. She was the court advocate for the domestic violence shelter after college. Then, as most of you know, she's now an attorney. However, with the math side of her brain she has the logic which even helps in the law profession. But, she was good in all subjects. Math was her favorite. All my girls were good in math. They got it from their dad, NOT ME! And they possibly got it from my mother. I was told she was very good in math. One day when my oldest was not yet a teenager I had Mom and her add up a bunch of numbers to see which one could finish first (a little game). BOTH DID WELL! LOL
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Someone posted a while back that all three candidates have essentially the same basic health plan.
Well, according to an interview with Elizabeth Edwards, this is not true.
All three plans have differences, and you must drill down to the details to see those.
McCain's plan doesn't offer coverage for pre-existing conditions (please don't tell me that that is true for most health plans as this is not the issue we are trying to resolve for americans getting health coverage that they can't afford now). That will leave out many americans who currently don't have health coverage. And, in addition, his plan offers tax credits instead of purchasing the insurance. Finally, his plan suggests that companies that currently offer health insurance to their employees and families will no longer need to do so, and many companies will choose to not offer employees coverage and will go with the "national insurance program" if McCain gets his through. Also, this coverage is per person, it does not cover an individual's family--you purchase for each person. Still will be out of reach for most families. And if families are currently covered by the employee's company, they should still be required to offer that, as it often is the lowest cost coverage. Also, large companies get better rates as a group, and the larger the group the less it is, as opposed to the one at a time system.
Okay, that out of the way. This is what she said about Obama and Hillary's plans. She likes Hillary's better, because she wants everyone to purchase the insurance, and also includes in her plan a way for the cost to be covered for those who can't afford to pay the premium. There are no exceptions for pre-existing conditions. Her plan is as close to John Edwards' as it can get. And of course, Elizabeth feels whoever is the candidate should endorse her husband's plan--even McCain.
She did no have that much to say about Obama's. Her main suggestion was that the candidates need to start talking about the differences in each of their plans more than they are. She suspects that will happen once the two final candidates are chosen.
She thinks Obama should be clearer that his plan is much better than McCain's. And he should go into more details.
Another point she made in the interview is that McCain is saying now that he has always been against Bush's tax cuts. That is not completely true. Yes, he was against some of the tax cuts, BUT NOT THE ONES FOR THE WEALTHY.
McCain also supports the tax cuts for the petroleum and oil companies as well as big businesses in this country.
The tax cuts he opposed were for the little people, like us.
So, it looks like with McCain, we will have another 4 years of a "bush" term unless we make a change for the better--go Obama or Hillary.
Also heard on the news that Hillary shouldn't have to be spending so much time in PA. She had it sewn up. But, Obama has been spending so much money there and able to fundraise more effectively than she is, that he has gained quite a bit in the polls. Now she keeps talking about how unfair the caucases were to her--when in fact, someone did the math and determined that if there were primaries in those states that only had caucases--Obama would be ahead by 1.7 million in the popular vote right now.
And then again, there is this Columbia fair trade agreement that hubby and her former advisor were working to get in place. Looks like Pelosi is putting the squash on this tomorrow.
Thought I'd give everyone something to chew on in the morning.
Good night and hope your sleep is peaceful. -
Hey Shirley,
Guess we found another reason to be good at math--we can figure out what all the numbers mean in this campaign. Maybe even analyze the stats and realize there's so much plus or minus error they are useless!! LOL -
Any health care plan that goes before congress has to go into committee, have hearings, get changed, and on and on it goes.
I don't worry too much about a plan having a pre-existing clause, because that will come out, if the committee has any common sense. One would rather see a good plan go into to committee so there isn't any real slashing and burning going on there. What is important is the person who proposed the plan be good at strong-arming to get it passed if it comes out resembling the plan that went in.
If John Edwards plan is better than Hillary's, then amen. I haven't read it myself, and I plan to read it. Of course it's also quite important to have a President who will sign it and do some strong arming herself should it get bogged down or get changed beyond recognition. A few well placed phone calls from the White House and legislation moves.
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Adding to what Grace said, Elizabeth Edwards made it clear that neither she nor John favors one candidate over the other and that we would be lucky to have either over McCain.
Shirley is right, neglect can come from any walk of live regardless of race or economics and both blacks and whites have the kind of problems that might need Cheryl's help although I wasn't clear whether her work was specifically for an agency geared toward minorities or not.
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Gee...I must be really in tune with Elisabeth Edwards...I said a few pages back that it looked as though Hillary had the best plan, it was Amy that said otherwise! LOL! Like I said...READ THE PLANS!
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It is possible to have read the plans AND disagree with Elizabeth Edwards...
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Sure, what part do you disagree with?
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I just strongly believe that the plan should be as good as the plan that covers all of our elected representatives. Privilege needs to be used to make sure that the plan is equitable for every citizen of this country.
I certainly don't want the corporations and businesses to "cop out" on what they are currently providing. There are too many employees in this country that need coverage for their families, and this is the lowest cost way for the business and employee to have that coverage.
I also hope it helps the employee who works for a small company. These small construction businesses, or other mom/pop small businesses can't compete for good deals on health care if they have less than 50 employees. I see that with my SIL and daughter. He works for a small company and had to wait 6 months for the company to provide health care--and he pays not only half his premium, but also the cost for my daughter and granddaughter. Out of his less than adequate salary, he pays over $800. per month for health coverage, and he's not gone through the medical doors for care! That's way too much. And I know there are others struggling even worse than that.
On and on it goes....Let's hope the new president can strong arm congress to get a decent plan passed as Rosemary states. I'm all for it. -
Here's Hillary's plan. I don't see her saying a word about having to expand medicaid (John Edwards Plan), or subsidizing (Obama Plan)
She want to strenghten medicaid by taking out some loop holes that exist. See for yourselves:
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/americanhealthchoicesplan.pdf
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Thanks Rosemary. I just finished reading through her plan.
I hope a plan like hers goes into place, and cleans up the medicare HMOs huge costs and brings them down to a realistic level.
Of course, any plan that puts the kobosh on denying health care for pre-existing conditions, won't be able to keep the premiums in check. I bet those with previous diagnoses won't be turned down, but will pay the highest premium the insurance can charge. Someone has to cover their A@#es here.
Didn't notice if there was a provision for that in her plan.
Perhaps the "subsidizing" is her strengthening of medicaid? -
Grace,
She wants to take out the loopholes in the medicaid plan. Her plan will charge according to income. So people with pre-existing conditions will pay no more then others in their income level. It's a good plan. My hopes of her being at the helm to push it through, is quickly diminishing. Obama is outspending her by $2 mil a week in Pa. There goes the popular vote to keep her going.
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I wish I had time to read all the posts. However, have family over.
Have any of you heard about insurance companies being able to drop us when we become 65 yo...on Medicare? The courts say it is not AGE DISCRIMINATION. A friend told me about his. It was in the news recently.
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"Now she keeps talking about how unfair the caucuses were to her--when in fact, someone did the math and determined that if there were primaries in those states that only had caucuses--Obama would be ahead by 1.7 million in the popular vote right now. "
bygrace, I'm really interested in that statement. Can you explain the math and the logic? I may be missing something, but my understanding is that the concern about caucuses is that they are run at a specific time in the evening.
Because they are held in the evening, the elderly are less likely to attend.
Because they are held in the evening, single mothers who have to be home at night to care for their children can't attend.
Because they are held in the evening, working class voters who can't afford a baby sitter can't attend.
Because they are held at a specific time, shift workers who are working at that time can't attend.
Because they are held in the evening, the groups that are most able to attend are young singles and university students. These groups have been over-represented at the caucuses relative to their representation within the population as a whole. In fact many of the caucuses were run by students and/or professors.
The groups which were less able to attend caucuses make up Clinton's key constituencies. The groups which were more able to attend caucuses make up Obama's key constituencies. Hence the results of the caucuses tended to favor Obama, even in states where the demographics were much more favorable to Clinton. This suggests that had these states held primaries instead of caucuses, Obama may not have won. This means that translating Obama caucus wins into a popular vote count is illogical, since the argument is that Clinton would have won the popular vote in some of the states where Obama won the caucuses.
That's the argument as I understand it. What am I missing?
(By the way, what about all the votes that Clinton did get in Florida? I won't include Michigan in this argument, since Obama wasn't on the ballot, but Florida was a fair fight, and in fact the only one to have any campaign activity in the state was Obama.)
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Do you know what the loopholes she's planning to take out? Wouldn't that strengthen medicaid? Seems like loopholes usually means that it needs tightening up.
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Beesie,
The comments about the caucuses being unfair to Hillary was on MSNBC this morning, if I remember correctly. Or it could have been Fox news, I'm just not sure. I was flipping through the channels trying to get the jist of what was going on in the political arena.
What you say makes sense. So I'm not sure what the logic was that was used. I think someone took the caucus votes and multiplied them out somehow. I would imagine the margin of error would be pretty high.
If I hear this again I'll try to pay closer attention and get the details. Sorry.
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Don't think the Florida votes will ever count. Last I heard the DNC did nothing, and Florida would not pay for another primary. I know Hillary wants the votes. Heard Barack state he would follow whatever the DNC decided to do. What a mess! -
Since I went to an evening caucus which was badly run, no one knew what they were doing, a lot of the older people went home. We had to wait an hour to get in. Plus there was not much parking where it was held, again that would keep people out who couldn't walk from further away.
Some info about the differences between the candidate's position:
HEATLH CARE
Both say they have a goal of providing universal coverage and will try to lower costs to make it more affordable. The biggest difference is that Clinton would require everyone to get health insurance while Obama would not. Clinton says her plan is the only one that is truly universal because people won't get coverage unless they are required to, similar to auto insurance, at an affordable premium. Obama says people will get insurance only if they can afford it.
HOUSING
Both want to help homeowners facing foreclosure, but Clinton's plan includes a five-year freeze on interest rates for all subprime mortgages, which often go to borrowers with the poorest credit. Obama disagrees with the proposed freeze, saying it will drive up interest rates and keep other people from getting mortgages.
Both candidates also support legislation to help homeowners with "underwater mortgages" - meaning their homes are worth less than the mortgage. That legislation would provide government guarantees for their mortgages, but Clinton wants to go one step further than Obama. She wants the federal government to buy underwater mortgages and reduce payments to a level homeowners can afford.
EDUCATION
Obama has called for something that irks teachers' unions. He says educators should be rewarded based on performance as long as test scores aren't the sole measure. Clinton says she would support merit pay, as long as it was based on school-wide performance and not the individual teacher.
At the college level, both want to provide more tuition relief through tax credits - up to $3,500 for Clinton and $4,000 for Obama. Obama also would require something Clinton does not. Students would have to perform 100 hours of community service to qualify each year.
RETIREMENT
Both candidates say they would help low- and middle-income workers set up personal retirement accounts and provide government matches for the first $1,000 saved annually. But they would go about it differently.
Clinton would match 100 percent for families earning $60,000 or less, with smaller breaks for those earning up to $100,000. Obama would match 50 percent of the first $1,000 for families making less than $75,000.
On Social Security, Clinton has not said publicly what options she would consider to keep the system afloat long term. Obama has said the best choice is to raise Social Security taxes on people earning more than $200,000.
FOREIGN POLICY
The debate over whether the president should directly negotiate with rogue leaders has been one of the most prominent issue differences in the campaign. Obama says he would meet with heads of state in places like Cuba, Iran and North Korea. Clinton says those meetings could be used for propaganda and her first response will be outreach through other diplomatic channels.
IMMIGRATION
Another much-discussed division: whether to give driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. Obama says yes, for safety reasons. Clinton says no.
TAXES
Both candidates would repeal Bush's tax cuts on wealthy Americans to pay for their programs. Obama also has a plan for across-the-board tax cuts for most workers. Clinton doesn't support Obama's plan because of it $80 billion cost and because it would apply to families with significant incomes. Obama's campaign says it would begin a phase-out for households that earn around $150,000.
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"Do you know what the loopholes she's planning to take out? Wouldn't that strengthen medicaid? Seems like loopholes usually means that it needs tightening up"
Grace, I wouldn't know. Why would they need medicaid if everyone is in a universal health care plan? Why can't it be done away with?
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Medicaid: Each state is in charge of medicaid/public aid. Here in Illinois nursing homes and doctors have not been paid since November. That means they are providing treatment, housing, food, and medications for free. Some will close down soon. More and more physicians are not accepting public aid patients.
Yep - this is the state the BO is from. These same people who are unable to get health care voted for him.
Very sad.
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Nicki,
I'm reading your post and wondering who's a BO? Then I got it. Funny. I just think if Hillary's plan goes through it should do away with medicaid eventually until everyone enrolls. Maybe they'll still need it for illegal immigrants? Or homeless people? I'm guessing because I don't know much about medicaid.
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Anyone ready Rosemary's post about differences should remember that she strongly supports Clinton against Obama and says she will not vote for Obama in the general election and this is based on her opinions of the difference, not actual fact.
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Amy, it's true that Rosemary is a Clinton supporter, but the facts about the candidate's positions on key issues are the facts.
Perhaps Rosemary supports Clinton because she compared each candidate's position on key issues and decided that she prefers Clinton's positions. That's the reason why I support Clinton - it's got nothing to do with personality or who is more charming & engaging. If those were my criteria, I probably would support Obama. The reason I support Clinton is because I prefer the detail of her plans on the key issues. I've looked beyond who is a good orator and who promises "hope" and "change" and examined their plan details and records of achievement to determine who in reality will be able to deliver more "hope" and "change". I believe it's Clinton much more than Obama. For that reason, I think it's unfortunate that the set-up of the Democratic nomination process will result in the nomination going to Obama.
BTW, here's an article from today's Washington Post about Obama's fundraising efforts. It certainly suggests that when Obama says he that he doesn't take money from special interest groups and big business, it's really just a matter of semantics: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/10/AR2008041004045.html?hpid=topnews
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I read Hillary's health care coverage plan. She does not require EVERYONE to enroll. If one is satisfied with the current health care coverage he/she has, the individual is not required to enroll in the system under her plan.
Just a note here: I'm covered as a retiree from the educational system where I worked for medical,dental & vision until I die. This plan is employer administrated. IF I were to enroll in Hillary's health plan, I would lose my health coverage. Something we all need to keep in mind!
I don't think medicaid will be done away with completely. In CA it's called Medical. It is also for those who did not work enough credits to qualify for SS or Medicare. Medicare requires a co-pay taken out of SS retirement. Medical does not. It is also used for people who are unable to pay anything towards nursing home care if they are unable to live at home.
What I see left out of this, is any care for keeping the elderly in their homes rather than in expensive nursing homes. There is no long term care component to this bill. So I think that will be an issue that will come up at some future time. I don't necessarily think we should or should not have that, I'm just pointing that out.
There is also no coverage for dental. This is a huge problem in this country as many people can't afford to even go to the dentist for well-care. Many poorer just go when there is a problem and then end up slowly losing their teeth. Oral care has been tied to many serious health issues people develop as they age--like heart disease, and others. It seems that dental should be an important part of any health plan if there is to be a wellness initiative attached. AND if there's not, then there should be!
And as far as the differences in education: I'm all for 100 hours of community service each year. Wouldn't hurt any college studen to participate in that. And 100 hours a year in 10 months is nothing--that's only 10 hours a month. In fact, the k-12 schools in my area have a component of community service built into their curriculum, as well as the local university. It's something I think all of us should be "conditioned" to do every year!
AND as far as the government buying "underwater mortgages" and helping people level out their payments to what the house value is--sorry, I think the people need to be helped, BUT I for one think the subprime lenders and those who wrote those mortgages need to be held responsible. Bailing out individuals who got duped is one thing, bailing out companies that did the duping and knew what they were doing is another. They need to clean up their own mess. And then perhaps they won't do it again, or will be out of business and unable to do it again. No government hand-outs for those companies! -
I have an ooops to report. The differences between the candidates was found on yahoo news. It didn't come from myself. I went to look for it again now, and it's gone from my view.
Amy, don't get so upset. Everyone knows I support Clinton and undoubtedly will vote for McCain in November. He just needs to get onboard with health care. One can't deny he's the most experienced of the 3 candidates, but Hillary has the best programs. It's up to the congress to pass them, and the better person to get that done, in my mind, will be Hillary.
Grace,
To have health insurance will be mandatory with Hillary's plan. So either you keep what you have or change it to something else that will be up to us. But having it is a must. If I'm not mistaken, if you don't have a card when you go to a Dr. visit, they'll enroll you, same at a hospital per one of Hillary's talks on TV.
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Rosemary wrote: "Grace, I wouldn't know. Why would they need medicaid if everyone is in a universal health care plan? Why can't it be done away with?"
I have read Clinton's plan and I don't find anywhere that she discusses loopholes needing to be cleaned up in medicaid. Where did you hear, read this? Could it have been something a journalist or media person's comment? Otherwise, I don't think we can assume that she will do that or even said that.
It's hard sometimes to differentiate between the real truth and someone else's interpretation of the truth. -
Thanks Rosemary for the clarification. What I want to see now is what are the premium rates for the different plans. Will they be the same as those that Congress is covered for in all three plans, or different?
And what if someone can't pay the premium after they are enrolled? Will we be able to cover (with the taxes we currently pay) for all those people working minimum wage jobs that can't afford it? And will the companies they work for have to contribute a share to cover their employees? I thought that was included in the health plan proposals. It's going to be a complex system--and a nightmare to get off the ground I think!
And thanks for letting us know that yahoo news was your source for the differences. I think we need to look at many news sources and try to sort out the truth for ourselves. I certainly want to have a candidate that does the best job for us.
As for Clinton support that Beesie discussed, I'd just like to say that I would vote for Clinton if she could unload Mr. First Man. He's a problem for me. I don't want 2 Clinton's in the White House--reminds me of the good old whatever club. Time for a new man and a new direction. Like a breath of fresh air.
This country has been mired in sludge for the past 8 years. McCain will just perpetuate that old republican way. So, IMHO, out with the old and in with the new. And in 4 years, if it doesn't pan out, then there will be another election to further clean out the Congress. Yep, it isn't just changing the leadership of the country, we've got to get these good old boys and their tired ways out of Congress.
Right now, I'm liking Pelosi's style. -
Grace,
She talks of loopholes in medicaid on page 10 #5 in the post on her plan that I had posted previously. That's a mouthful.
I was hoping to use the differences between them as talking points for us. Sorry, I can't help you with her husband. I really think she wants the job for herself, and she won't be sharing with ole Bill. Of course, there's always that pillow talk.
I don't think it should be so hard to get this started, all the providers are in place, they'll just be enrolling the uninsured with them as they do with auto insurance. Her plan supposedly takes income into consideration for premiums. Hopefully, the rich won't get richer and poor won't get poorer over this.
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One more thing, and this is only my thinking, when congress pulls the let's get it in committee and we never see it again, ole Bill will be on the road telling us all about those shenanigans going on. He'll pull no punches. But, again that's just my thinking. If he were my husband, he'd be on the road again. Just can't wait to get him on the road again.
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Rosemary-- since you didn't credit a source, it was hard to tell. I usually like to see who is writing the article to see if that reporter has shown a previous slant toward one candidate or another.
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Amy,
Of course, and I should have taken the extra moment to source it. Do you do caucus voting in PA after the primary? Or is it done by popular vote only during the day?
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