The Brand New Respectful Presidential Campaign Thread

Cherryl, with the roles reversed, my daughter went to a law school that was predominately black, North Carolina Central University in Durham, N. C.

I've written about this before, but I'm repeating it again.  My daughters attended private schools K-12.  Our middle daughter decided to stay at home and go to our local university, UNC-Wilmington.  Our middle daughter went to UNC-Chapel Hill.  Our oldest went to Wake Forest University.

Our oldest daughter worked with the domestic violence shelter for eight years as a court advocate.  She decided FINALLY to go to law school.  Yes, she worked with many black women.  And many white women.  Not all abused women are poor or black or white.  Domestic violence reaches across all racial and economic lines. 

My daughter had to make a decision where to go to law school.  She chose NCCU.  I have to remind you that before working with the shelter she only interacted with whites.  I never heard her gripe about going to a predominately black university.  She did well and graduated Summa cum laude.  You bet I'm proud of her just like all the other parents sitting in that auditorium the day she graduated.

No one said my daughter was "trying to be black" by going to NCCU.  Being called an "oreo" is a sad slur for an African American PERSON who is only trying to better themself by going to the university of their choice.

This discussion really makes me sad to the point of tears.

This is not for you, Cherryl, but for everyone.  There are poor white people (some called "white trash").  There are poor black people.  I will not negate the truths of African Americans and slavery.  But I feel in my heart that we must move forward as I have said over and over.  I will never forget that African Americans had "their place."  I'm old enough to remember that.  But I have never walked in an African American's shoes therefore, I will never fully understand the abuse.  My goal now is to treat everyone with respect. 

I cannot undo the past.  Again, repeating myself, there is racism and there will always be racism.  My belief is that acceptance and respect have to first be taught in the home.  I would think that bringing up the past over and over would be so hurtful and detrimental to growth.  And I am in no way saying it should not be taught in history or forgotten.  It is part of our history.  My personal past is my history.  Perhaps that's why I was so hell bent on my daughters having the best education we could give them.  Most parents want better for their child no matter what the color.

We have choices to make.  We are held accountable for those choices.  When I see an underprivileged kid, black or white, "make it," it makes me happy.  When I see a kid who has been handed everything on a spoon, it makes me sad.  I think we who are participating on this thread want the best for all people.

Larry Elder's father wrote:

Kirk my son, you are now starting out in life-a life that mother and I cannot live for you.

So as you journey through life, remember it's yours, so make it a good one. Always try to cheer up the other fellow.

Learn to think straight, analyze things, be sure you have all the facts before concluding, and always spend less than you earn.

Make friends, work hard, and play hard, most important of all remember this (the best of friends wear out if you use them).

This may sound silly Son, but no matter where you are on the 29th [of] September, see that mother gets a little gift, if possible, along with a big kiss and a broad smile.

When you are out on your own, listen and take advice, but do your own thinking and concluding, set up a reasonable goal then be determined to reach it. You can and will, it's up to you.

Your Father, Randolph Elder

http://www.larryelder.com/letters/kirkletter.html

Shirley...once again, YOU ROCK! I have the utmost respect for you, your thoughts and your posts!

Shirley...I suggested a thread about race relations just am not sure if it would offend anyone...if we are supposed to talk about it, perhaps one should be started, then this thread can go back to being about politics...

Shirley,

I apprecite your response to my post. I've just got home and am too tired to form a lucid reponse to you. I would like to respond to some points you brought up. Just for the record I'm from NC and did my undergraduate work at St. Andrews College in Lauringburg. Talk to you tomorrow.

Cherryl

I go by my experiences in life as we all do. The majority of white women I have met over my lifetime have no clue about diversity or what it means. They are not interested in learning about other cultures or making friends with women from other cultures. They want to be with people who look like them. They don't even understand how privileged they are as white women. They don't have to understand if they don't want to. They are not discriminated against by the color of their skin. I'm not talking about Democrats and Republicans. I could care less about what political party someone is. How they vote is not important to me. For all I know, many of the diverse women I have met are Republicans. There are liberal republicans in this world, just as there are conservative democrats. And perhaps they are two rooms full of Independents. Politics has nothing to do with race. Politics crosses all peoples of all skin colors--from white to black. There are conservative blacks and there are liberal blacks. There are conservative whites and there are liberal whites. And on and on and on....

So, you may think I'm stereotyping, but I have to judge what's good for me based on my experiences. I have been to Diversity Conferences and met very few white women I would want to spend my time with. The same goes for other cultures also at times. The best conferences I have been to have been mostly people of color. They are real, and they tell the real truth about their lives and their experiences. I don't get that from white people. Sorry, not stereotyping, just my personal experiences. And I believe I am entitled to that.

And your experiences have been different from mine, it seems, and that's fine. I would never invalidate your experiences by assuming you are stereotyping or making assumptions. Your experiences are just as valid as any other person's on this board.

What my black friends call others as sell-outs, is their opinion and they are entitled to it. If they want to call someone who looks like them and doesn't act like them an "oreo," that's their issue and no one else's. They aren't making a racial slur--they are talking about people who look like them.

If they called white people names, or Latinos or Asians, then I'd say it's a racial slur. Just like white people calling other people "white" names that come into being, that's a white issue. If another person of color does it, then yeah, it's a racial slur. I don't see anything wrong with talking about the people who look like you--they are trying to differentiate themselves.

Race is a social construct and it keeps getting more and more complex.

And to add to the complexities, there's a new documentary coming out: "Unnatural Causes: is our identity making us sick? Saw an interview on early news show this morning. From their research they have determined that the poor are getting sicker than the more wealthy. The poor are overstressed and often working so much they aren't getting the rest they need to stay healthy. They found that college graduates lived 5 years longer than their peers.

Here's the info:

California Newsreel wrote:

Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:16:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: California Newsreel

Subject: UNNATURAL CAUSES broadcast and Web site launch

Spread the Word!

UNNATURAL CAUSES: Is Inequality Making Us Sick?

National PBS Broadcast
Thursdays at 10PM (9PM Central)
March 27, April 3, 10, and 17

Check TV listings

http://www.unnaturalcauses.org/check_tv_listings.php

www.pbs.org/unnaturalcauses, where you can share your health equity stories, check TV listings, and find resources for action.


© 2007 California Newsreel. All rights reserved. Produced by California Newsreel with Vital Pictures Inc. Presented by the National Minority Consortia of Public Television


JMHO: So, those who face discrimination by skin color, can also be worse off if they are poor and uneducated, and add to that women, and in some cultures if the women are lesbians, even more discrimination can exist. All those isms add up.

How many isms do we whites suffer from? How can the color of our skin help us fight those isms?

So, what Shirley--whites are allowed to have attitudes about other people? And people of color are not.



Guess you would have to define "characteristic mentality and behavior of white middle-class society."

Each of us probably has a different definition. And I'm sure you wouldn't like mine! LOL



I am not African American, so I can't tell you how they are supposed to act. What do you mean by that question?



You don't get what acting like a white person means? Perhaps you should re-read some of this thread, and the other thread.



Again, it appears you think that all of one group acts the same, or should act the same. Don't think you can generalize that way. That would be stereotyping. Each of us probably has a definition of what we think white is and what we think American is.



Have you ever asked a large variety of people from other cultures how they would define "american?' You would be surprised at the response you would get. Do you know that there are African Americans who don't see themselves as americans? They don't feel connected to what they define as american.



None of us has all the answers, Shirley. And none of us ever will. We can only go by our experiences and what we have read and listened to in learning about other cultures. It takes time to educate oneself about different people of colors' experiences and their history. Their history is often very different from our own, and their perspective can be similar or different from our own.



Perhaps it also depends on the dictionary you are using as to the definition of words. Some are better than others.



Why do you think it is a slur to African Americans if an African American acts like a white person?

How do you define "american?" What is an american? What is american culture? Do we or can we distinguish our american culture from any other culture? Or are we an amalgamation of all cultures?

Who is "adopting" cultural characteristics in this country? Perhaps we should ask white people what is white culture? Can it be defined?



I don't believe it's true that we are more comfortable amongst "our own." Guess we disagree there.



I've heard teenagers (who are African American) call each other the N word, and not out of disrespect. We need to understand what slang or slur words mean within a culture, not just from outside a culture. I'm sure there are many whites who call each other honky, but don't like it if they hear it from those who don't look like themselves. Same true for African Americans. Perhaps if I call someone an oreo, that would be considered a slur. But I don't believe that African Americans having a conversation together and naming someone an oreo is a slur. That has not been my experience. And I have to say that during these conversations, much laughter was exchanged. And even if a name was not expressed as to the person's leanings, the roll of the eyes said it all.



True, Shirley there are no easy answers. And respect for all cultures and ethnic groups is a good thing to do. And, I would say that perhaps it isn't enough. Why not go further? Why not read some memoirs and non-fiction works by authors of other cultures and ethnic groups? It is amazing what is out there to awaken our consciousness to a greater understanding of others' experiences in this country.



Have you heard of Audre Lorde? A wonderful African American author who died some years ago of mestatic breast cancer. She wrote a very short book about her experience with breast cancer as an African American, call "The Cancer Journals." I highly recommend her book. I still go back and refer to her work often. Reading her story, as a woman of color, in a system that often doesn't know how to address the difference for women of color and others (I won't say white because it seems to bother some on this board for some reason). It presents a picture of how we sometimes mean well, but don't stop to think first about what we are saying or doing. I'd sure like to know what you think about her book if you have or haven't read it.

Grace I have a bunch of white friends and I have never called them "honky"...Shokk

shokk,

I am a dreamer because I believe it's possible to engage in honest racial dialogue without calling people names. How naive!!

Cherryl

I was gone for a few days dealing with my daugther college acceptances and all that. Looks like I missed a lot of discussions.

I was especially interested in this "acting white" thread.

If one gets good education , moves to a good neighborhood and send the kids to  a good school , does it mean that s/he "act white". I read postings carefully but saw no detailed explanation.

Wow, I've been following this discussion for some time.  It's very interesting and the comments are well written.  Obviously, those partaking in the discussion are informed and well educated.  I haven't jumped in because I'm not sure I could post as eloquently.

But I would like to share a little personal experience.

I'm a blue-eyed blonde raised in So. Calif.  My family is from the midwest, was poor and raised on the "south" side of the tracks.  I grew up hearing occasional racial slurs from my dad, but didn't understand them.  My mom always told him to be quiet.  I grew up in a white middle class neighborhood and went to a private Lutheran school.  No African Americans in my school or in my neighborhood.

Fast Forward ... grew up, got a job in H/R had Black and White friends.

Fast forward ... I spent 2 years in Utah in Mormon country where, although I was the same color, I was the minority, was shunned and couldn't get a job.

Fast forward ... lived in a tiny town in Iowa for 6 months, one Black guy there, married to a White woman.

Next ... moved to the South.  North Carolina.  I bought a house in a nice neighborhood north of Charlotte.  Mostly a bunch of upper middle class White and some Black peope trying to escape the congestion of Charlotte.  Couldn't stand the crowds.  Left NC.

Moved to south central Virginia.  Oh buddy.  In order to get a great little place with land, I moved to a poor County.  This is a culture shock.

We don't have Oreos here.  We don't have White college professors here.  We don't have Black college professors here.  What we do have is a whole lot of Black and White poor people.

The other day walking through the parking lot of Walmart, a Black man yelled out me.  "You stupid White bitch ... get out of the way." I was inadvertently blocking his parking spot.  I sure didn't know this guy.  So, is this a product of poverty, lack of education, rudeness, my hair color, walking too slowly, culture, or frustration at Walmart?

Bren why didn't you just hurry up and move your honky a$$ out of the way?   .........Shokk

Amy said: 

I can definitely see why she assumes that Shirley isn't well read on race by her comments and refusal to even see comments in context. Her rigid  thinking is typical of someone views Wright's comments without historical context. I doubt she ever heard of Tuskegee before or knows how it is possible that anyone could believe that AIDS was created. It's apparent she passed judgment w/o hearing or reading th entire speech. None of that means she has to agree with Wright, just to come to an intelligent decision based on the totality of information.

Shirley-- it's sometimes hard to know how you mean things, since you often sling snide remarks and generalize from specific examples to think I mean things that I didn't say. If I misinterpretted what you said, I apologize, although from the tone of your response I believe that there was no misinterpretation and it was a sarcastic, not a genuine remark.

Since when is Amy the judge, moderator or even good example to follow?  How dare you call out Shirley who was not being snide or sarcastic.  You just gave her a backhanded apology not a real one.  Again, Amy thinks she is being fair and discussing when instead she slings mud from a sty.  Talk about SNIDE remarks!

And where is it "apparent" that she passed judgment?  You say you don't name call, Amy, yet here you also call her RIGID?  You said she was SARCASTIC?  Basically, you accuse her of living in small little world where  facts and newsreels don't get in ....   Basically, you are name calling her and judging her.

I've heard the term quite a bit ..... My opinion is that ignorant white people use it to describe black people and when they say it to describe one of their friends, "Oh yeah, Jim, he's an oreo" ... I have taken it to mean that normally they don't have black friends but this guy is so "like them" that its ok to hang around him.  Yeah, he's an oreo because he wants a house in a good neighborhood, a good job and to take care of his family and give his good kids a good or excellant education!

I think racism is sad and too bad people of all colors just don't realize we all want the same things at the end of the day, at the end of our lives:  love, food, warmth, kindness .... we want to have loving families that are living safely ... peace and security.