Using Progesterone Cream?

Dear Rosemary,

It sounds as if you enjoy research as much as I do.  I'm actually wanting to go into it professionally.  Let's work together if you're game.  I'm currently researching the endocrine system and the relationship between the thyroid and excess estrogen/progesterone ratios.  It's cause and effect on the gland and thus the system (our body as a whole).  So far, IMO, this is a significant correlation in thyroid dysfunction and excess estrogen from zeno-estrogens.  There are dietary factors also, ie: too much fake fat (hydrogenated), and not enough omega 3 fats.  I sure would appreciate any help you might be able to offer.  Please let me know.  My eyes are getting tired! 

Sincerely,

Lisa

Rosemary,

That kind of goes hand in hand with thyroid function.  Here's another good one:  http://dietary-supplements.info.nih.gov/factsheets/carnitine.asp

I know we are all looking for the "cure", I am more and more convinced it is a multi-pronged approach.  I really think Genesis is on the right track.  I am seriously thinking of doing the 30 day program to see how good I can feel.  Honestly, when you clean house, it sparkles!

Dear Mannie,

That is a great post.  Would you please send me the information about the dairy you read?  Thanks!

Lisa )

This is a tough one and you can see all the differing medical opinions. 

I had estrogen dominance about 4 years ago.  My med onc said it probably did stimulate the cancer.  The anti-dote for estrogen dominance is progesterone.  I did the cream and then the bio-identical pills for about 2 years until it subsided. 

The cancer was dx last June. My feeling is maybe I should have fought the ED more aggressively.  The ED came back this month and I took black cohosh.  In a week I was better. 

I bought some progesterone cream but have not used that much.  Have not heard back from onc yet, either although at one time she told me not to take the Black Cohosh either. 

The Black Cohosh seems to have helped enough this time without using the creme.  I shed at least 3-5 pounds of water weight that was very uncomfortable and driving me crazy. 

What are we to do?  In the end, follow our guts.  Just because you used progesterone cream, doesnt mean that was why you got BC. Any onc will tell you we dont really know why certain people get it and others dont.

It's a quality of life issue for me. 

I am not going to be stupid.  I did the surgery and rads.  I will try one more estrogen stopping drug---tamoxifen.  Maybe that will solve the ED too, but the Femera and Armidex had too many SE's. I was miserable. 

And since I havent had the ED in two years, I am wondering if the anti-estrogen drugs had some kind of rebound effect on me. Who knows?

I am 56 years old though and otherwise extremely healthy and in shape.  Do I want to be miserable for 5-10 years and maybe get the BC back anyway? 

It's all a judgement call.  Thanks for the support though. Maybe everything in moderation.

Hello!

My interest in progesterone started after my hysterectomy in 1997 because it wasn't long before I knew something wasn't balanced, especially emotionally. I had kept my ovaries in. I read Dr. Lee's book about menopause. One aspect that I am quite curious about is whether women who have had a hysterectomy have a different balance to consider than those who have not, since the uterus is involved in progesterone levels in the body. It seemed to me that it was possible that by having the uterus removed but leaving the ovaries in likely would result in estrogen dominance. But before using anything, even progesterone cream, I thought I would talk with an MD who I thought should have some idea how these bodily changes change the physiology of the body and any impacts on the psyche. So I saw a FEMALE psychiatrist. It turned out that when it comes to anything that logical, "M.D." meant nothing. She told me to see an OB-GYN. The OB-GYN who had done my hysterectomy was a good surgeon but... I already had asked her whether taking any supplemental hormones after surgery would be a good idea, and she said no, with no explanation. It still isn't logical to me. If the organ that has the most to do with progesterone levels is removed (an unnatural situation) then why wouldn't that throw things out of balance?

From time to time I used progesterone cream on the skin of the legs or arms. In late 2001 I was diagnosed with ER+, PR+, HER2+++ bc. My onc was one of the most prominent in the northwest. I asked him if it would be okay to use progesterone cream while doing chemo, etc. and he said that would be fine, and added that it could help with sleep and hot flashes. Keep in mind that he was saying that with the knowledge of my exact situation, which may not apply to yours. Maybe having no uterus made a difference. Maybe my age made a difference. Our cancers and histories all vary so much!

Thanks for sharing what information each of you find about this.

-AlaskaAngel

I began  Bio-indenticals prior to my dx.  not that they caused my cancer I was on LoEstrin for 2 yrs prior to that ...but,obviously it didn't help since I was ER/PR+ ! On dx., my treating oncologist told me to stop them iediately due to the fact that the tri-est,progesterone and the testosterone all convert in some way back to estrogen in the body. I know I am simplifying this but I took it to heart and wouldn't dream of using them today .

Re: black cohosh..you may find this interesting from the Nat. Institute of Health www.ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/blackCohosh.asp

• .

  Who should not take black cohosh?

  • The use of black cohosh during pregnancy has not been rigorously studied. Thus, it would be prudent for pregnant women not to take black cohosh unless they do so under the supervision of their health care provider.
  • Women with breast cancer may want to avoid black cohosh until its effects on breast tissue are understood.

Hello!

Alaska Angel was kind enough to refer me to this board from the HER2+ board.  I have a strong interest in the natural progesterone debate, and Lee's books have resonated strongly with me. 

As I read these posts, it is not clear in the studies referenced whether the studies used what pharmeceutical companies, doctors, and pharmacists called/call "progesterone"  i.e. actually "progestins " (Provera, etc) the synthetic variant made so it was patentable vs. the "natural" bioidentical progesterone.  The two have a very different track record, and it is important to distinguish between the two.  Provera says on its warning label that it can cause miscarriages, and can cause a huge side effect profile, whereas a pregnant woman has a huge amount of edongenous or "natural" progesterone.  Interesting when you consider women who have given birth have a lesser chance of bc.

I would really appreciate any feedback on these studies as to whether they utilized bio-identical progesterone.

THanks!!

TRS

P.S.  As I understand it, Wild yam creme is NOT the same thing, does not offer the same positives, and  from what I read the body does a poor job of metabolizing it.  I believe a prescription used at a compounding pharmacy is probably the best source for natural progesterone.

Hi Ladies..... Just had to check in.  Suffering from some vaginal dryness, I have used the Replens.  That seems to be effective. I also told my onco about my problem and he prescribed the premarin cream.  He is affiliated with the UC system here.  Now that I have the cream, I'm afraid to use it!!! I'm ER/PR+.  When I had god-awful dryness, with this healthy white thick discharge, the Replens helped; plain water douches; AND using a vitamin E pill (poking a hole in it and inserting it).  Desperate women take desperate actions.  I'm 51, and enjoy intimacy and sex.  Oh, did I say I'm on Arimidex (enough said)!!!

Hi,

I am also a novice investigator "researcher" into natural progesterone, and more recently into thyroid and iodine connections.  Have you folk that have embarked on this project looked at the iondine link to thyroid and progesterone and bc?  Any studies found?

Apparantly progesterone helps the body absorb iodine.  Some believe it's the lack of iodine that is setting the body up for pre-bc conditions.  They both can help fibrocystic breast conditions.  Could this possibly be could be the link between the two?

ANy words welcome.

THNKS

(sorry for the font size...I don't know how to change it!)

TRS

Dear TSUnd,

Look to the liver for a more in-depth study of how the body changes these substances into their usable forms at the cellular level.  This is  very technical study.  If you want to heal the body, start with the internal organs, and do a complete cleanse of them so they can function properly.  This is done with herbs, and other essential elements.  Genesis did this and kicked her stage 4 cancer in the behind!  I am doing a colon cleanse right now by http://www.blessedherbs.com/.  It is my opinion that all the supplements, organic food, etc in the world will NOT entirely help the body unless it is clear of toxins, parasites, and the like.  I love this board, and everyone on it, but sometimes I feel like we are just spinning our wheels with all this time we do studying and hashing out these pro's and con's, when the answer is clearly at hand.  Clean out the pipes, scrub the sink, fill it with clean water, let it drain, and you are left sparkling!  If you want to study, here's a good one about liver and thyroid function http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/95/9/559

Ok a very naive question.

When we get our pathology we are given the ER+ PR+ which is stated that the tumor has receptors open to Estrogen and Progesterone correct ?

But does this actually mean that the tumor feeds/thrives on them, or does it only mean that it has receptors and consumes them.

If the latter is true then I guess estrogen feedsthrives the tumor, but does progesterone feed the tumor and and make it thrive ? Couldnt it be that it causes it to die ?

Sorry if I am totally off base here,.

I'm newly diagnosed with stage one, invasive dcis, PR+90% ER+90%, grade 2, node negative BC...at age 43. I have used biodentical progesterone creams for about nine years and have switched brands a few times. The last brand I used was "Progensa 20". the company I ordered it from states it is is the cream most holistic doctors recommend. Last year I tried to find out about the manufacturer...and found that the FDA had reprimanded the company for poor recordings of mixing the cream. I then began to doubt the authenticity of the product I bought. The cream seemed to be helping with the tender breast and I had no cramps, but I had noticed a significant weight gain. One of the supposed effects of natural progesterone cream is to help with weight gain caused by estrogen dominance. Well It seemed I had gained weight from this particular brand...when other  brands like femgest had actually stabilized my weight. So after I was diagnosed with BC this Feb. I questioned authenticity of biodentical prog. creams.

Of course my BC surgeon said do not use cream after I was diagnosed...Which I have been unsure of...yet how can I know if the prog crs are pure.

Interesting fact is that my sister was diagnosed with same type of BC when she was 32, ER and PR +, Yet more aggressive with Positive lymph nodes. She has been using natural progesterone cream since dx. and 9 years later is still in remission. She refused hormonal therapy after chemo and rad. due to advese side effects. Now she follows use of nat. prog. and supplemental alternatives.

I have researched daily since my diagnosis and found a site that said synthetic hormones are what companies use to make natural Progesterone cream...Finding the truth seems to bring us at our wits end. Another site said the cream could build up in fat cells over time.

Breast cancer is a scary disease, yet there is hope. different treatments work for different individuals, because everyone is different.

right! 20mg is the recommended dose