can we talk about soy...again?

Before dx, I was a huge consumer of soy products....ate tofu for lunch every day and when I used milk, it was soy. I thought I'd perish when my onc told me to desist (uh, guess she was trying to help me avoid perishing?) and I mourned the loss terribly (). She conceeded that eating tofu twice a month would probably be okay and, so, I look forward to indulging every 2 weeks. I suspect that it will be found to be the processed soy products that are questionable, rather than the purer stuff common to Asian diets but, unfortunately, I'm partial to the extra firm packaged tofu and I'm sure that what's used in restaurant Mo Pa Tofu isn't "pure" either.

I wouldn't have minded giving up fried foods or high fat products, but my tofu....????? Sigh........

Hi,

I am lactose intolerant.  I started using soy cheese and ice cream many years before my dx and I love miso soup.  I am still indulging, but not as frequently.  It does get kicked around and there are women on these boards that believe it is a huge no-no.  I am not in that school of thought, but I do feel guilty (!!!) if I have my soy products.  It's bad enough that I can't have any milk products, but it hasn't been proved 100% that soy products cause BC.  Until they can prove it, I will continue to indulge myself.

Has anyone seen actual statistics from real data to show correlation between soy ( real products not  overly processed stuff) consumption and tumor growth. I understand the theory, but also know that traditional asian diets seemed less likely to lead to breast cancers. Is the tofu no-no a theory or established

12954, I was just thinking the same thing as I read your post. Asian countries, who have traditionally relied strongly on soy products have had extremely low rates of cancers. When these cultures adopt western style diets, the incidence of cancer rises.

Each day newspapers publish the results of studies that suggest that something causes cancer. One of the strongest links seems to be alcohol and yet whenever this topic is raised, there is a general resistance from those who enjoy alcohol to give it up. Yet, when the soy link came up, most people were very quick to avoid it. This is understandable - a glass of wine makes us feel relaxed and is a big part of our culture. Mention tofu and most people say "yuk - tasteless muck - give me a steak any day " so no wonder there is so much more antipathy towards the poor bean!

I still eat small amounts of tofu, soy beans (just soaked, cooked and curried, in soups etc) and alternate soy milk with cows milk but I avoid concentrated soy products - I think they are often listed as soy isolates. I had er+pr+ bc last year.

Also, I believe that cancer is caused by a variety of things. We had a nutritionist, genetic researcher and a few other guest speakers at my bc support group last year and all agreed that this was the case. 

Interesting discussion ladies. I enjoy reading everyone's responses.

gb 

I posted a study out somewhere (food board?) about at least one study showing that soy with tamoxifen amplified tamoxifen's effects...similar to flax seed.

www.cancerrd.com is a site from a dietitian who is a 3 time cancer survivor.  She posted that she ate soy 3x/day all the while she was on tamoxifen and she is at least 18 years out from her 3rd cancer.  She had a childhood cancer, then 1st breast cancer and 10 years or so a second primary (very aggressive) on the second breast.  I think she's been thru chemo 3 times (maybe twice) and tamoxifen the last go-around....all the while, eating soy.

Her site gives meal examples and she answers some questions as well on there.

I eat soy, but not as much as I used to (I too love the stuff).

Soy OIL probably has nothing in it remotely with isoflavones...it is a highly processed oil.

For example, even people with mild peanut allergies (MILD!!), can consume peanut oil because it barely resembles the product.

Best to you.

Rosemary

Everything has soy in it!  How do we stay away from it?  It is in Promise spread, and I think just about ALL the veg. oil spreads! 

What is a gal to do?

Harley

Rosemary,

Thanks...  I thought that flaxseed was bad for us ER+ gals, too!  Man, I am so confused!

Harley

Believer,

I wouldn't give up what you love unless your on tamoxifen.  Then it could be a problem.  It's the every day use that could get us into trouble, not the I have to have it every so often. 

Harley,

They don't use us in research, so no one can say if flaxseed is good or bad for us after we've been dx'd.  So far the research on rodents looks good.  I don't shy away from foods with flax, I just wish they'd research us who are willing to eat it daily, and see what happens.  Again, we're on our own. 

Harley,

There doesn't seem to be bad news about flax except for it being a blood thinner, so people should be wary if they're taking meds for that.

They just don't do the research to know what it will do for us after being dx'd.  If your getting soy that you don't want, flax offsets it.   No one can say it's bad for us though because they haven't done human research. 

Before we give soy a really bad name.  It doesn't cause cancer, it could help feed a tumor.  That's what they found in research which lasted for longer then 13 weeks.  First the tumor shrank, but when the test went on, the tumor came back with a vengence and grew even larger. 

Why it works so well in Asia is because the people there eat it early in life, we don't.  We found it later, so it could be a problem for us if we have a tumor that we aren't aware of.

The suggestion is that we feed our adolescent girls soy so they can get the protective aspects of it, as they do in Asia.  But our soy products aren't processed the same way they do in Asia, so I wouldn't give my grandchild soy unless it was soy beans or something that isn't processed here.

Allyson,

They also drink tea there that could also explain why their levels of BC is less.  Plus, I found that white rice has something in it that could be a preventative also.  So they're doing more unknowingly to prevent BC, on an everyday basis, then we even know about.

The head of the cancer institute here told me she thought it okay to eat soy, my own onc said in moderation.  I have no idea. I usually have at least 1 fermented soy product - tempeh, yogurt, etc several times a week. From what I have read soy is not the culprit, but the concentrated extracts in pill form are.

I also eat flax every day.

You gotta wonder why there is no decision on these things after alll these years. Is it so tough to question women about it?

I believe the controversy about soy is only for ER+ women, those whose cancers are fed by estrogen.

I have read that soy (in tempah, miso and yogurt - fermented) is okay and better when flaxseed is added to your diet. 

Joanne 

The way I understand it is that receptors pick up the weak estrogens from soy so that there is no room for the stronger ones to dock.  This seems to be a very controversial area.  You would think by now someone would have a definitive answer.

Joanne 

Very interesting.  So in essence this is saying it enhances the impact of tamoxifen in some women if I am reading correctly. I wonder if it does the same for AIs?  Seems from what I read whole soy foods (not the soy burgers, etc.)  generally are beneficial to breast cancer survivors.