Very disturbing news about Colon cancer screening

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saluki
saluki Member Posts: 2,287
edited June 2014 in Life After Breast Cancer
Very disturbing news about Colon cancer screening

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  • saluki
    saluki Member Posts: 2,287
    edited March 2008

    I think this is an issue we have to watch closely.  I was assuming with my routine colonoscopies I was being vigilant--but it seems that some of us may have to be watched even more closely and differently.Another question---Is Chromoendoscopy even available to us right now?

    From Medpage today

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    Nonpolypoid Colon Lesions Common and Often Malignant
    PALO ALTO, Calif., March 4 -- Flat and depressed nonpolypoid colorectal neoplasms are common, hard to detect, and more likely to be malignant than the more familiar colorectal polyps, researchers here reported.

    ----------------------------------------


    Action Points 

        * Explain to patients who ask that routine colonoscopy to detect colorectal polyps that can lead to cancer may miss hard-to-detect nonpolyp lesions that are flat or depressed yet likely to become malignant.

    Nonpolypoid neoplasms, with an overall prevalence of more than 9%, were almost 10 times (OR 9.78) more likely to be malignant than polypoid lesions, irrespective of size, Roy Soetikno, M.D., of the Veterans Affairs Palo Alto Health Care System, and colleagues reported in the March 5 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association.

    After adjusting for polyp size, the likelihood that these neoplasms harbored in situ or submucosal carcinoma was more than five times higher than the rate for standard polyps, the researchers found.

    Nonpolypoid neoplasms are more difficult to detect by colonoscopy or CT colonography. They appear to be slightly elevated, completely flat, or depressed, the latter being the most difficult to detect, the researchers said.

    For detection during colonoscopy, the researchers used chromoendoscopy with indigo carmine spray, to highlight neoplastic lesions.

    ------------------------------------



    The findings came from a cross-sectional study of 1,819 patients undergoing elective colonoscopy from July 2003 to June 2004 at a Veterans Affairs hospital in California.

    The overall prevalence of the nonpolypoid lesions was 9.35% (95% CI 8.05% to 10.78%, n=170).

    The prevalence of nonpolypoid neoplasms in the subpopulations

    for screening, surveillance, and symptoms was 5.84% (95% CI 4.13% to 8%, n=36), 15.44% (95% CI 12.76% to 18.44%, n=101), and 6.01% (95% CI 4.17% to 8.34%, n=33), respectively.

    The overall prevalence of nonpolypoid lesions with in situ or submucosal invasive carcinoma was 0.82% (95% CI 0.46% to 1.36%, n=15).

    In the screening group, the prevalence was 0.32% (95% CI 0.04% to 1.17%, n=2).

    Overall, nonpolypoid neoplasms were almost 10 times likelier to be cancerous (OR 9.78, 95% CI 3.93 to 24.4) than polypoid lesions, irrespective of size.

    The positive, size-adjusted association of the nonpolypoid lesions with in situ or submucosal invasive carcinoma was also observed in subpopulations for screening (OR 2.01, 95% CI 0.27 to 15.3) and surveillance (OR 63.7, 95% CI 9.41 to 431).

    Characterizing morphology into flat, depressed, and polypoid, the size-adjusted multivariate model of flat lesions maintained a five-fold greater association of flat lesions with carcinoma (OR 5.18, 95% CI 1.84 to 14.6).

    Although nonpolypoid lesions accounted for only 15% of neoplasms overall, more than half of the in situ or submucosal invasive carcinomas (n=15) were diagnosed in nonpolypoid lesions, the researchers wrote.

    The depressed type, the most difficult to detect during colonoscopy, had the highest risk (33%).

    Nonpolypoid colorectal neoplasms containing carcinoma were smaller in diameter than the polypoid ones (mean diameter, 15.9 mm versus 19.2 mm, respectively).

    Follow-up of colonoscopy data within three years found 13 of 393 patients to have advanced neoplasia, all of which were flat or sessile adenomas 10 mm or larger, except for one T1 carcinoma.

    In this study the researchers also diagnosed flat or sessile adenomas that were likely to have been missed by the initial colonoscopy because of incomplete bowel preparation, nonpolypoid shape, or their location between folds in the rectum.

    Study limitations included the lack of generalizability of the study in which most of the individuals were men and the lack of long follow-up.

    Recent studies have pointed out differences in the genetic mechanisms underlying the two types of colorectal neoplasms, the investigators said.

    Future studies, they added, should further evaluate whether the diagnosis and removal of these neoplasms has any effect on the prevention and mortality of colorectal cancer and particularly focus on their genetic and protein abnormalities.

    "The elephant in the endoscopy suite is missed lesions," wrote David Lieberman, M.D., of the Oregon Health & Science University in Portland, in an accompanying editorial.

    There is increasing recognition that even experienced endoscopists may fail to detect important pathology, he said. In fact, CT colonography studies have shown that optical colonoscopy misses 2% to 12% of polypoid lesions larger than 10 mm.

    It is possible, if not likely, Dr. Lieberman wrote, that additional nonpolypoid colorectal neoplasms may be missed by both studies so that these studies underestimate the actual colonoscopic miss rate. These missed lesions may represent the most common explanation for interval cancers.

    Nonpolypoid lesions may be biologically distinct from polypoid lesions and appear to be more likely to harbor malignant features. Detection and complete removal at colonoscopy may be challenging, Dr. Lieberman said.

    The optimal methods for enhancing colonoscopic imaging of nonpolypoid neoplasms are uncertain and studies are needed. Chromoendoscopy with indigo carmine seems to work, but other methods might be technically easier, he said.

    Moreover, additional studies are needed to determine whether imaging modalities such as CT colonography will be able to detect flat or depressed neoplasms.

    Finally, longitudinal studies are needed to determine whether

    patients with nonpolypoid neoplasms require more intensive colonoscopic surveillance compared with patients with polypoid lesions of similar size and histology, Dr. Lieberman concluded.

    Palo Alto Institute provided funding for the study for Research and Education, a nonprofit organization.

    The study authors and Dr. Lieberman, the editorialist, reported no financial conflicts.

    Primary source: Journal of the American Medical Association
    Source reference:
    Soetikno RM, et al "Prevalence of nonpolypoid (flat and depressed) colorectal neoplasms in asymptomatic and symptomatic adults"JAMA 2008; 299: 1027-1035.


     
    © MedPage Today, LLC. All Rights Reserved.

  • ADK
    ADK Member Posts: 2,259
    edited March 2008

    I saw this in the paper this morning.  I guess it is a very good thing that colon cancer is slow growing.  The thing about this that could help me is that I have a stricture that prevents a complete colonoscopy, so even though I have had them, there is a large region that is not getting looked at.  If they have to turn to new methods to review, I could luck out and maybe get that area looked at also.  In the meantime, I cross my fingers & toes.

  • ravdeb
    ravdeb Member Posts: 3,116
    edited March 2008

    Are you a candidate for the non invasive test colonoscopy? They can't remove polyps but they can see the colon. Forgot what this is called.

    This article worries me. I have a good friend whose father died of colon cancer and he has been going for his colonoscopies. They once found a polyp that was insitu and they removed it so he's okay, but what if they didn't spot something that can't be seen with the colonoscopy??

    Nothing medical is 100%, though, and we should all remember that. What about the bc tumors that aren't seen in mammograms..same thing, right?

  • ADK
    ADK Member Posts: 2,259
    edited March 2008

    No, Ravdeb, I am not a candidate for the virtual colonoscopy.  For that, you have to swallow a small camera which in a normal person is disposed of without a problem.  They worry that it would get hung up in my system which would then require surgery.  In addition, the virtual colonoscopy takes what it sees of your system and extrapolates it out to give a report to the doctors.  I have so many issues, it would say that I was in serious trouble.

    I agree that nothing medical has a 100% warranty, but to discover the test that is the gold standard is severely lacking gives you pause about trusting anything.

  • Sierra
    Sierra Member Posts: 1,638
    edited March 2008





    Thanks for posting this.



    Is there anyone else on here

    his Father passed on, from colon cancer

    Just wondered, actually my Dad had colon

    then had lung cancer



    I am due now and will speak to my

    specialist about this news



    Course, it will take several months to get

    a booking. I go every 5 years. How about anyone else?







    Hugs,

  • candie1971
    candie1971 Member Posts: 4,820
    edited March 2008

    Hi

    I just had my first colonoscopy this past Dec. I had 3 polyps. 2 were ok and one was an adenoma(sp), which the Doc says was a pre-cancerous polyp. Thank God I went!!! I also had a endoscopy done at the same time and he found that I have a hiatel hernia. so some meds are dixing that. He told me to have a colonoscopy every 3 years.

    Hugs and prayers,

    Candie

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited March 2008

    I wonder why they don't screen us for other cancers more vigilantly than a "normal" person since our immune system has already failed us one time!

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited March 2008

    Rocktobermom, Harley's surgeon who did the her mast wants her to have a colonoscopy because of her history with bc. 

    When I had mine they found two polyps, one being pre-cancerous.  The GI doc said for me to come back in five years.  I talked to my primary about it and said with my history I didn't want to wait for five years (and I do not look forward to this again..so it's not like I want to do it).  In fact, about everyone I have talked to, men or women, who have had polyps are told to go back in three years.  My primary agreed that I should have one in three years (I think it's two years now, but who's counting).

    Shirley

  • SoCalLisa
    SoCalLisa Member Posts: 13,961
    edited March 2008

    I have had three colonoscopies...one before bc, and the second after chemo..I had two polyps, one like a mushroom and one flat..they were both precancerous...then I had another three years later...all clear and a five year recommendation..

    I might add I saw the second one because I had no meds for it...I even questioned the GI guy about the flat one..he didn't seem to differentiate but then I didn't know to ask.. 

  • ravdeb
    ravdeb Member Posts: 3,116
    edited March 2008

    Interesting.

    Anne..I see what you mean about the virtual colonscopy. Thanks for giving me the name. Can't seem to remember anything lately.

    It IS hard to take that the colonoscopy is not always effective, but again...like I said...not all the scans we get are effective and show what needs to be shown. And sometimes what may show up for one person, won't show up for the next.

    If I knew how to make these more effective..I think I'd be living a more luxurious lifestyle!!!

    It's scary..no question about that.

    And my friend who had the pre-cancer polyp whose dad died of colon cancer, has a colonoscopy every 3 years.

  • trigeek
    trigeek Member Posts: 916
    edited March 2008

    Ok I have never gotten a colonoscopy, and am 45. ( no family history of colon or breast c )

    Is everyone supposed to have the screening ? 

  • ADK
    ADK Member Posts: 2,259
    edited March 2008

    Hi Trigeek,

    It is recommended for people over 50, but colon cancer is called the "sister" cancer of breast cancer, so you might want to schedule one.  Having BC is one of the risk factors for colon cancer.  Other risk factors are inflammatory bowel disease, smoking, drinking and I know there are more that I just can't remember right now.  When I had my last colonoscopy, they had 8 risk factors listed out on the wall - I hit on 6 of them.

  • ADK
    ADK Member Posts: 2,259
    edited March 2008

    I need to correct something - I was mixing up virtual endoscopy with a virtual colonoscopy.  You don't swallow a camera for a virtual colonoscopy.  However, the prep for a virtual is identical to a real colonoscopy and if they find something, they do have to do a regular colonoscopy, so, you end up doing the prep twice.  Personally, I think the worst thing of the procedure is the prep.

    Anyway, sorry if I confused anyone.

  • sandilee
    sandilee Member Posts: 1,843
    edited March 2008

    I'm having my first colonoscopy in a couple of weeks.  The prep does seem unpleasant, to say the least.  No food, only clear liquids (and no purple or red) for the day before, and then, the pills to clear everything out.

     Any ideas about good things to drink- I'm thinking veggie broth, apple or pear juice, maybe chicken broth...what else can you have?

      Any suggestions to make the day easier would be appreciated.

  • ADK
    ADK Member Posts: 2,259
    edited March 2008

    Hi Sandilee,

    I have done this prep so many times - jello is good as long as it isn't red (I like the blue) - you con yourself into believing you are eating.  I usually do chicken and beef bouillon cubes, jello and black tea or coffee.  Apple or pear juice is fine.

    Good luck and I hope the findings are negative.

  • Harley44
    Harley44 Member Posts: 5,446
    edited March 2008

    Hi there!  I just saw this thread... 

    Roctobermom, Yes, Shirley is right!  My surgeon wants me to get a colonoscopy next month (probably for my birthday, YICK!).  He told me that since I had bc, I am now at higher risk for colon cancer... 

    BTW, I 'knew' that having bc put me at increased risk for colon cancer, but I didn't tell my drs., because... well, I really don't want to get a colonoscopy...  Too bad my surgeon keeps up on all this stuff!  But, I am glad that he does!

    Trigeek, I had NO BC or colon cancer in my family, either... I'm just one of those "lucky" ones, I guess!  I will be 45 on my birthday.

    But, I am glad that my surgeon can do this procedure, because I don't want a GI dr. that I have never met going inside my butt... too intimate for me!!  EmbarassedLaughing

    Sandilee,

    I'll be going in a few weeks to see my surgeon, and he will schedule my colonoscopy then.  It will probably be on my birthday! 
    ADK,

    thanks for the suggestions!  I am thinking chicken bouillon will make be think that I am 'eating' something, so I won't starve!  My dh had his colonoscopy a few years ago, and the prep was just AWFUL!  He has colon cancer on his Dad's side of his family, though, so I bugged him til he went, a few years early.  Now, I get to have one early, too.  Funny, I think he was  46...

    This is just TOO MUCH FUN!!

    Good luck, any one going for their colonoscopy soon!

    Harley

  • Member_of_the_Club
    Member_of_the_Club Member Posts: 3,646
    edited March 2008

    I think this isn't such new news after all. I remember reading that there are some difficult to see polyps and that the experience and expertise of the gastroenterologist is very important. The good ones will see the flat polyps, as illustrated by some of the women in this thread.



    Don't worry about this, just take care of yourself and make sure you choose good doctors.

  • Harley44
    Harley44 Member Posts: 5,446
    edited March 2008

    MOTC:

    Thanks! 

    Well, I never knew anything about 'flat' polyps.  I'll be sure to mention it to my surgeon.


    Harley

  • danix5
    danix5 Member Posts: 755
    edited May 2008

    Hello Ladies,

    I thought I might ask you all a question.

    I was sent to have a baseline colonoscopy last week ,onco referred me.  I am 43 I fully expected to get the all clear.  I did not they found a polyp and diverticulitis.  The dr seem to think cancer was out but maybe precancer and want to to see what "tissue the polyp was in"  What??

    My best friend died of colon cancer at 44 yrs old Jan 07.  I know BC and colon cancer are sisters, which my friend could be here to know that one.  We were like the sisters neither of us ever had, now we had "sister diseases"

    anyway can any of you explain how often someone in the early 40's gets polyps?  and what the tissue question means?  Maybe he is referring to adeno tissue or cells?

    I have some family history of colon cancer, Mom has had several precancerous polyps, her brother my uncle had colon cancer and is doing fine.

    I did not have strong family history for BC either, just three great aunts, paternal side, two dx'd before they were 50.  My Dad and his brother have had tumors removed from their breast all B9.

    Thanks for any help you can provide.

    It seems every time they do some test or surgery with me they find something else.  I had cardiac ablation 2mths after bilateral mastectomies for heart issue I never new I had!  Now this!  Really looking forward to my total hyster on May 20, what will they find next??!!!!!!!!!!!

    Thank you,

    Daniella

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited May 2008

    So the polyps would not be symptomatic, right, since they are inside the colon and not ruptured?

  • danix5
    danix5 Member Posts: 755
    edited May 2008

    Yes, there were no symptoms.

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