Presidential debates on ABC right now-both parties

I am getting absolutely sick reading the anti-American remarks on this thread.  I'm also livid.  This country, THE USA, has done more good for the world than ANY OTHER country.  And President Bush is NOT the devil!

McCain's a hero!  He's been through more crap than any other candidate.  And as far as refreshing, is that why we vote for a candidate.  Heck, Huckabee is refreshing.  He doesn't have a speech writer.  I've seen him speak without notes and from his heart.  He's a guy who really understands about the poor.  But is that a reason to vote for him? 

"Junie, your story about the children protesting is wonderful....."  

I'm not believing what you said.  WONDERFUL!!?  Yeah, that's what we need... to teach the children what?  Do you know about what they were protesting?  Little kids?  Give me a freakin break!  That's warped!  

Children?  Grade school children protesting Bush.  WTH?  What would THEY know about Bush for Pete's sake?  Please, please understand they are doing what there parents or teachers are telling them.  They'll believe ANYTHING they are told.  They are not mature enough to know what the heck is going on in this world.  That doesn't do my soul one bit of good.  It shows me how other countries spread their propaganda and teach their children to hate us.  I wouldn't teach my children to hate middle eastern people because of what the terrorists did to our country and who killed thousands of innocent people. 

 Come here..let me tell you something.  People are going to hate this country NO MATTER WHAT.  We are powerful.  We are rich.  We hand out billions of dollars for those who need our aide.  But yet nothing we do is enough, nor will it ever be enough.

If I were in another country and saw a march protesting our country or Bush I'd probably throw something at them!  Not the little children though.

Did Bush make mistakes in this war?  Absolutely.  And he has admitted he made mistakes.  But as I remember, and I watched the war almost everyday on TV, people were jubilant over Saddam's "fall."  But when the war didn't go right, we're bullies.

I need to leave this thread.  My bp is up, I'm sure.

"Andedote -- Bake some bread--very calming"

Susie, I'm sitting here almost in tears.  What the hell's the matter with me!?

I need to clean house..calming...LOL  Bread would taste good and make me fatter. 

I was determined that I would not respond to this lunatic leftie thread again, but after hearing Shirley try to give the other side, I just had to give her some support.  You will be happy to know this is my last comment! You can all talk to yourselfs, and sing to the choir.

If you all think it is so bad in America, then why are you still here? Go to Canada where my friend was told she had BC,but would have to wait several months for treatment. Fortunately, she came home for a second opinion, was told her tumor was not cancerous, was treated right away and is fine. When I ask my French students what they would like me to send them, they all say a green card. If it is so bad here, then why is everyone coming here? Because they know it is the best place in the world to make your dreams come true, if you are willing to work for it.

My Italian grandfather talked with so much pride about being an American. He left Italy to escape Mussolini, and told us to not complain about life in American, because it would never be as bad as he had it in Italy. He never became a rich man, but he was so proud that he could take care of his family by working hard. Those of you who constantly blame us for everything, need to think what your ancestors had to stuggle through to become American's. If you can't respect this country, no matter who runs it, then get the hell out of here!

Hi Shirley,

Don't know what to say to make you feel better. I do read what you write and think about the issues. Although we don't agree much of the time, I respect your right to voice how you feel and how you see the world through your eyes. I don't know if this is making any sense.



it is a shame that young man won't get a job. His parents will be sorry in the long run. We see the pictures of kids like this in the police station binders all the time! I agree with you that he should not be getting free health care. If his parents are paying him not to get a jog (in a sense) then I believe they should be responsible for his healthcare costs. Years ago, when you went to the hospital you had to either prepay for your treatment or you signed up to make payments. What happened to that system?



I don't believe in any person who is able bodied should "work the system." I do believe that we are not only responsible for ourself, we are duty bound to assist those around us in getting ahead. To me, getting ahead does not mean getting others to pay for your welfare, food stamps, or healthcare. While Hillary used the term "it takes a village to raise a child," that has been true for centuries in some cultures--even cultures in the United States. If we look at African American communities and some Asian communities (and I don't mean to exclude others and I am speaking "generally about") the ideology of the community in question has been that until all have been raised up to the highest of the one in that community, the community has failed. In other words, each individual works for the betterment of the entire community. Example: a young black woman goes across this country to attend college. The college is near her relatives so she has family to count on for help if she needs it. In addition, one of her uncles sends her "survival change," which is a small amount of money sent each month to help her with incidentals that her single mother's tuition & board payment doesn't include. When she graduates from college, she will be prepared to enter the workforce and give back to her community.



I was raised to believe that whatever I could do to help others who had less than I had was important. My parents instilled values in me of ethics, respect, and work hard. I instilled those in my daughter as we volunteered at a homeless center every year in our community. Her high school brought in the most canned goods every Christmas. The center provided our children with an incentive to collect food goods by having a competition. The winning school was written up in the newspaper. Some of the recipients of weekly food bags, utility bills paid, and emergency shelter found were given enough of a help moving forward that they soon became employed, moved into their own space they paid the rent on; and they came back to the center year after year to give back to the center to help others.



Someone once said, "For me to succeed, all others in my community must succeed, otherwise I really have succeeded at all." A community gathers its strength by reaching out and bringing along the others behind them until all reach the finish line.



I think that perhaps somewhere in your comments and mine, we do agree on some things. As long as we are open to listening to others and validating their comments (and that doesn't mean we agree), we are closer to coming together with our strength of purpose.



I did not intend my 80s story to raise Susie's bp or bring you to tears. My story was simply my experience abroad at a time when it was not easy to admit to being an American. In some way I am ashamed of not 'fessing up, but by doing that I was able to have a wonderful experience meeting people from all over the world.



When it comes down to it, everyone's experience is different. Even if we are standing in the same place at the same time, what I perceive and what you perceive will be different. When someone says to me, but I didn't have that experience; I listen to what they have to say and try not to say to them, oh no, you can't be right because I didn't have that experience. It makes the world a very complicated place.



I hope I haven't offended you or Susie, as that truly was not my intention. I am enjoying this thread simply because I do want to hear other perspectives about this election and the candidates. I think this is a "new" era, and I believe that the women writing here care about each other--much more than we care about who is right and who is wrong. It's not about that, it is about what is!



I hope you get your house clean--I am moving on to bake some heart shaped valentine cookies for my granddaughter's daycare! But I will return to the thread soon to see how it moves forward.



grace

One thing that makes this country great is that we can debate and say what we think.  I respect everyone's opinions, but I don't agree with some.  That's fine, if we all agreed, it would be such a dull world.  Having said that, I would not ask people who disagree with me to leave this country.  It belongs to all of us.  It was founded out of rebellion.  Through differing extreme viewpoints, the middle road can be found.  The best solution to disagreements is when no one is 100% happy with the compromise.  Constructive tension is always a good thing.  We need the differing viewpoints to keep us on course.

Susie,



What a cutie!



Tender

 Amy writes:

"Beesie, I agree with you about Katie's passive-aggressive attack. To say that anyone doesn't have a right to chime in on the conversation, whether we disagree isn't right. You and I disagree on Hillary vs. Obama. Neither of us is trying to change the other's mind. Is it ok that I think Canada, not the US is the best or one of the best countries (except for the cold climate)? I'm torn between Canada and Holland. Canada wins on proximity, Holland on even more freedom."

Beth, I've got to defend Linda.  With comments like this it disturbs SOME of us.  I'm sure that's why Linda made the comment about leaving this country.  The above quote from Amy disturbed me.  However, I left it alone...was too chicken to confront her, I suppose.  No one is saying that everyone who disagrees with us should leave this country. 

I think for me, who thinks quite differently than most of the women on this thread, that I should leave.  I do not want to make "enemies" on this board because I become somewhat zealous with my ideas.  No matter how one debates the issues on this thread, and, for the ones (like me), have pretty much of a clear vision how we want to see this country lead, we (who are few) it probably is not worth posting here.  I value my friendship that I have made with others. 

As far as my friend's son and making $8.00 an hour...I don't care if he gets health insurance or not.  He will not better himself, PERIOD!

His grandmother bought him a nice Honda and paid for his college education until he flunked out (a waste of money).  And Grandma is leaving him an xxx amount of $$$ which I would use for health insurance instead of leaving him the money to squander when she's dead (his mom thinks he uses and sells drugs).  We paid for three girls' education from kindergarten through college, and they had no car through high school and college.  Priorities!  What right does anyone think that $8  an hour is not good enough when they have no ambition to learn a trade.  He won't even go to a cummunity college.  And I'm sure there are many more stories just like that out there.

"Look at how Our Marines are getting treated in Barclay CAL.

They will take Gov. Money, But do not want the Pride of This Country to be there, WTH!!!"

Darn, I forgot about that! 

Makes me sick too Shirley!!!

But You know who is to bame don't Ya! what would some people in this Country do, I f they did not have BUSH To bame ever thing on?????

I also know He made Many mistakes!

But will "NEVER" Say He is the one that made all of this mess!

Seems Bill Clinton had a thing for Binlauden also!

Just could not get the JOB done, so left it for Bush, and We got

911

A Proud Mother of an American Soldier!

Debby

While I'll continue to participate at times in the discussion about the current election, I certainly won't comment on whether or how the U.S. can or should be criticized by it's citizens.  There have however been a number of comments and some disagreement about how the rest of the world views the U.S., and whether the GWB presidency and policies have negatively affected these opinions.  For those interested, here is some information about that.  

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?PageID=824   This page includes a chart that shows favorability ratings towards the U.S., trended from 2000 to 2006.  http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?PageID=825  On this page there is a comparison of U.S. and other country's favorability ratings.  There also are charts showing the confidence level in George Bush, trended over several years, and attitudes towards the war on terror.  There is also a chart that shows that those in other countries do distinguish between the people of the U.S. and the U.S. itself.  "Opinions of the American people have declined, in some cases substantially, since 2002. Nonetheless, publics around the world continue to have a more positive opinion of the American people than they do of the United States. In seven of the 14 foreign countries surveyed, at least half of respondents have a favorable impression of Americans; in contrast, four countries give the U.S. positive marks." 

The information from a year earlier (2005) is more detailed. 

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?PageID=803  This page covers opinions on U.S. policies.

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?PageID=806   On this page, by clicking on any of the countries listed in red, you can get specific information about that country's attitudes towards the U.S., the major issues and with their own government.

For those not interested and/or those who feel that I shouldn't be posting here (even without stating any opinion), please just ignore this post.

Beth, that may be from her mouth, but her purse is being filled by people who believe just the opposite.

g 

by Yedidya Atlas
Nov. 7 '00 / Heshvan 9, 5761

In This Article:
1. What Did They Say Before?
2. Hillary Rushed to Support Palestinian State
3. Money From the American Muslim Alliance
4. Emerson's Testimony
5. The Real Hillary

Here is a picture of Hillary Clinton KISSING SOHA ARAFAT. There are NO pictures of her kissing anyone who espouses freedom from terrorism. Gets you sick doesn't it?

Tomorrow, American-Jewish voters will make their decision whether to cast their ballot in New York's Senate race for Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton, or for Republican candidate Rep. Rick Lazio. If Israel's security is a deciding factor in their considerations, then a review of their respective positions BEFORE they became candidates and began running after the key Jewish voting bloc reveals basic differences between the two.

WHAT DID THEY SAY BEFORE?
An in-depth study of Congressman Rick Lazio's eight-year track record voting in the House of Representatives on issues related to Israel shows that he has been a 100% supporter of Israel. A member of the Republican Israel Caucus and a member of the House Budget Committee, Lazio has been a consistent supporter of foreign aid bills and the continuation of US aid to Israel. He has also been an outspoken supporter of American recognition of Jerusalem as the undivided Capital of Israel ­ including signing a Congressional letter to the President urging the transfer of the US Embassy to Jerusalem, and not signing a Congressional letter calling on the President to pressure Israel to stop construction of Jerusalem's Har Homa neighborhood. Lazio has also co-sponsored two pieces of legislation that call for official U.S. recognition and construction of an embassy in Jerusalem. If Israel is the issue, then his record - which is on the record - speaks for itself.

HILLARY RUSHED TO SUPPORT PALESTINIAN STATE
And Hillary Rodham-Clinton? Well, in May 1998, she told a youth conference on Middle East peace in Villars, Switzerland, that she supports the eventual creation of an independent Palestinian state. Her spokesperson, Marsha Berry told reporters: ""These remarks are her own personal view." Then, in November 1999, while on a purported State visit to the Middle East, she publicly appeared with Yasser Arafat's wife Suha. With Hillary at her side, Suha Arafat made the deliberately false allegation that "Our [Palestinian] people have been submitted to the daily and intensive use of poisonous gas by the Israeli forces, which has led to an increase in cancer cases among women and children." Mrs. Arafat also accused Israel of contaminating much of the water sources used by Palestinians with "chemical materials" and poisoning Palestinian women and children with toxic gases.

Instead of reacting with outrage, Hillary Clinton sat by silently - and gave her a hug and a kiss when she finished speaking. Later, many hours after the event, and only after a media furor put her on the spot for what many view as a bit more than a mere political "faux pas", Mrs. Clinton called on "all sides" to refrain from "inflammatory rhetoric and baseless accusations" - including Israel, whose leaders made no such accusations. Glossing over this remarkably repugnant affair, Mrs. Clinton has yet to specifically contradict and denounce the monstrous lies uttered by Yasser Arafat's wife in her presence.

MONEY FROM THE AMERICAN MUSLIM ALLIANCE
Hence, it is no wonder that the American Muslim Alliance chapter in Massachusetts held what it called a "successful fundraiser" for First Lady Hillary Clinton at the Park Plaza Hotel in Boston on June 13, 2000. AMA Massachusetts Chair Tahir Ali said afterwards, "We are attempting to send an important message to all AMA chapters: we must support all who have [Muslim] interests at heart, regardless of what part of the country they are running in."

EMERSON'S TESTIMONY
According to Steve Emerson, a well-known investigative journalist specializing in militant Islamic organizations, the AMA's leaders "have sanctioned terrorism, published anti-Semitic statements, and repeatedly hosted conferences that were forums for denunciations of Jews and exhortations to wage jihad." Faced with pressure on the matter, Mrs. Clinton announced on Oct. 25th that she was returning the $50,000 in campaign contributions raised for her by the AMA. She failed to give a credible explanation as to why it took her more than four months ­ from June 13th until October 25th ­ until she saw it necessary to return the money.

Mr. Emerson, in a recent Wall Street Journal article, noted: "As first lady, Mrs. Clinton began in 1996 an outreach program to Muslim leaders in the U.S. With America's Muslim population at some six million and growing, an effort to include the community's leaders in the mainstream of American politics is unquestionably a worthy undertaking. But curiously, nearly all of the leaders with whom Mrs. Clinton elected to meet came from Islamic fundamentalist organizations. A review of the statements, publications and conferences of the groups Mrs. Clinton embraced shows unambiguously that they have long advocated or justified violence. By meeting with these groups, the first lady lent them legitimacy as "mainstream" and "moderate"."

But this should not be unexpected, considering Mrs. Clinton's past radical affiliations. During the 1980's, ultra-liberal lawyer Hillary Rodham-Clinton served on the board of the New World Foundation, which funneled money to the Palestine Liberation Organization, at a time when the PLO was officially recognized by the United States as a terrorist organization.

Similarly, in February 1996, Hillary hosted a reception at the White House for leaders of Hamas-supporting groups such as the American Muslim Council and the Council on American-Islamic Relations. And in January, 1998, Hillary hosted another White House reception honoring Muslim leaders and the Muslim Public Affairs Council who defended militant Islamic fundamentalism and also supported radical Islamic groups.

THE REAL HILLARY
This, then, is the real Hillary Rodham-Clinton. An ambitious woman willing to utter any banal cliche on behalf of "Israel's security" to placate unaware New York Jewish voters, but one whose pre-Senate race record on Israel is appalling. It's a record of supporting the terrorist PLO, even before the 1993 signing of the first Oslo Agreement on the White House lawn, of ignoring blatant calumny heaped on Israel by Suha Arafat, of supporting the creation of a Palestinian PLO State, of hosting and legitimizing extremist Islamic groups in the United States. Most recently, it included taking campaign contributions from these very same evil, anti-Semitic organizations - until being caught with her hand in the extremist Islamic cookie jar. This is the very same Hillary Rodham-Clinton who now claims to be Israel's friend.

Her record says otherwise. Lazio's doesn't.

If true support of Israel is a factor in voting for a New York Senate candidate, the real record shows only one candidate who has really supported Israel.

The writer is a senior correspondent and commentator for Arutz 7 Israel National Radio. This commentary was written after he spent the past ten days in New York and investigated the two candidates' pre- and post-candidacy positions.