Presidential debates on ABC right now-both parties

Hillary was not a SAHM.  She has worked in the political arena not as a politician but as an attorney. She was there when Nixon was on the hotseat and she has worked for many issues involving health care and as a children's advocate. You can go to her website and see it. The reason I did was because she mentioned her 35 years of experience. I truly think that Bill ran most things by her and I always thought she was smarter than him. In fact, when he was first campaigning, I thought: she's the politician, he's the face. 

My family has always been republican but I loved the Clinton years, for us as a country with the budget balanced and for me as an American with a good economy. I want that back and I may be wrong but I get to vote for what I want and believe in ... .I am hoping that I get 2 for 1 with a Hillary vote.

So many good points.  Im listening and thinking about them all.  The one thing I dont like - is to hear the politicians fight with each other.  I know they all do it - and I always think that we are the people dont like hearing it.

Amy:  Im with you, the older I get the more interested I get. 

Have a good day everyone.

Nicki

It would be nice if Romney practiced what he preached! He's the one who has been running all the negative adds. He's just a little to arrogant for me. And condescending, and seems to be thumbing his nose at all the other candidates.



If he gets far enough, I don't think he'll do very well in the party debates against each other.



Funny how it's okay for him to through trash at his fellow Republican candidates, and then gets testy when someone does it to him.



Hope he's getting away from his negative campaign adds. I have never liked them.



grace

Taling about polls.  The Ohio and NH primaries.  I was getting telephone calls taking polls on who I would vote for.  Found it so irritated cause I have those calls blocked.  And they called me at the worse time.  Dinner and late evening.

Gets interesting each and everyday.

nnn

Beesie said: "When a man gets angry or frustrated, he may raise his voice, pound the table, get red in the face or even throw things (yes, I've seen that) - all 'acceptable' actions within the business world"

Acceptable for MEN in the business world. If a woman acts like that she is bitch. I am in my forties, working in a man's world. I've been in situations where getting ready to finalize a deal, I look for some necessary paperwork and don't see it ... "Hey, so and so, I need the copy of blah blah form" ....  or "Can you get me a blah blah form" or "Where's the blah blah form?" .....  I've had a General Manager who yells, screams, acts like King Kong along with a mealy mouthed salesperson((who told me how submissive women should be) both tell me that I should be saying please.  Hello?  Not that it hurts to use manners but in a high stress, fast paced business we are moving fast to get customers out quickly and correctly. You don't hear male managers asking in soft voices: Can you please >>>>>

When I've cried or had a breakdown (lots of times during the beginning of my dx) I was told that I was very emotional and maybe I should take a leave.

Women and men get different raps for doing the same behavior. Women sometimes can't win for losing.

I don't contribute much to political discussions, mainly because they don't seem to get me, or anyone, anywhere. But this is a wonderful thread and has definitely broadened my thinking on the candidates. Unfortunately, I'm like Nicki...still waffling. Lately, I've gone from favoring Edwards to being an Obama fan and, recently, I'm slightly tempted by Hillary. I guess I'm one person who loved her tears, believing them to be authentic and a result of frustration and exhaustion. I'm always behind the "feminization" of the workplace and leadership and like to see evidence of the whole person in my leaders. Perhaps that's odd. We used to debate this alot back in graduate school and I recall hoping that, by now, it wouldn't be an issue. Alas, it still is.....

Thanks, ladies, for a mature, thoughtful discussion!

~Marin

My dd and watched the NH primaries.  I was sooo surprised that Hillary won.  I could "hear" the "roaring" of laughter and glee in the Hillary camp and the moaning and crying in the Obama camp (no, I don't hear voices ). 

I still think when Hillary's eyes welled up in tears were real.  However, I do think it was from exhaustion and disappointed that she would "lose" the election.  She listened to the media like the rest of us.  I'm sorry, but I don't think those tears were from the concern of our nation.  In fact, I just don't trust her.

I do think it would be interesting if the dems won for Richardson to be VP.  I believe he has lots to give, but he's not going to get the BIG vote.

I'm undecided and plan to stay that way until I'm convinced.  BTW, if anyone's interested I believe tonight on FOX at 9 PM they're going to have another republican debate this time with Ron Paul included. 

And the fun continues.

Shirley

I'm confused - not sure who I like.  I'll watch and read -

Leslie 

I don't watch TV at all, and it may be during election season(s) that I am most grateful. No ads, no pollsters or pundits pontificating or predicting, no endless analysis. I read instead. Not that there's not a good bit of pontificating and predicting in print, but I can be more selective in my sources.

This has been an interesting thread. I notice that many are undecided - I think that's a reasonable place to be this early in the primaries. It's a long way until November!

Here's a really neato (and independent) tool to see who you are really leaning toward as far as your position on some of the major issues and the candidates' stated policies. There's even a way to find out 'why' you may seem to support or disagree with one or another of the individuals. You might be very surprised! My daughter took it and said "Kucinich? Richardson? Who are these people?!?"

http://glassbooth.org/

Have fun!

Lisa

Joan,

I see this lady frequently on the cable news programs.  Mainly MSNBC and Fox.  I like her.  She is funny and intelligent in her thoughts.  Thanks for sharing.

Brenda 

Lisa that is a very excellent website! I went there last year and came out "Richardson".And it was so true!I really did like Bill Richardson very much.Sadly he pulled out today.

But, as I said, Obama is for me.As someone who experienced the "camelot" time with Kennedy, I know it can happen, and that it is great!

Brenda, thank you! Not having cable, I've never seen Susan Estrich.But I WAS very impressed.

Sorry, everybody, that it is so "dirty".I thought I'd cleaned it up.

I will try to clean it up more.

Joan--good article--thanks



Madalyn--enjoyed reading your post very much.



I met friends for lunch yesterday. They were Joe Biden fans too. We had hopes that his responses during the debates were sufficient. We're glad though that he is back at the helm of the Foreign Relations Committee. Then we agreed that maybe we were thinking of this whole race idea in the wrong manner. Ever since Kennedy was astute enough to know that TV coverage changed campaigns and wars forever, the Presidential race changed into election of a "product" not a person. It's always been that the Cabinet selection of the President is more important in terms of the direction of the country. So maybe we need to broaden our view a little more. Who will get the paybacks?



The woman issue too touched another chord. It resonates to me too. I was one of those woman others here described. I believed in camelot, civil rights, give peace a chance, and equal rights. I was stunned when I learned that only 15 years before I sat in the evening classroom of business school, only men attended....that prior to Women's Suffrage Movement in late 1800's we were considered "chattel" (property) by law http://www.infoplease.com/spot/womenstimeline1.html. I remember the uniform I wore to work...blue pin stripped suit--with a skirt--mandatory the skirt. I remember being the only woman in the board room many times and only one of a few most of the time.



There were a lot of strong women out there. And I knew well the double standards imposed on both men and women who acknowledged their human emotions.



I remember when Hillary pushed universal health care concept the first time.... without a solid plan of implementation. It road on the wave of DRG (diagnostic related groups) a reimbursement plan implemented by the federal government to control medicare spending in hospitals. This wave was put in motion before the Clintons arrived in Washington.



DRGs gave birth to HMOs and a litany of other acronyms that moved the management of the money from the hands of doctors, nurses and hospital administrators into the hands of insurance companies, drug companies, advertising agencies and wall street.



This changed forever the organizational behavior of the industry....I wrote a paper on this subject for business school...before word processors....got an A...I still have it.



My sister was an obstetrics nurse for a Catholic hospital system...she worked with the poor...went out to their homes, brough little kits of basic health needs, taught them nutrition and basics of how to care for themselves and their children. Before obstetrics, she was a community service nurse who went out to the homes of people living in poverty who were dying and had no one to care for them. She was a good nurse...still is...but she doesn't do this work anymore.



The FIRST service to be cut during the evolution of the HMO's was her service and work. They needed the money to support the "competitive" nature of the emerging market of healthcare....thank you very much Hillary.



So yeh, it's true, I have a bad taste in my mouth for her and it never improved with time...unlike a good wine.



I agree too with the article Joan posted....it's not just about "change" for the sake of it. Lawyers know how to churn change simply to make money on it from the use of their services to implement the change......I saw this first hand during my days as a manager. This is not the kind of change I want to see......it's the political will change that I'd like to see evolve.



I don't believe in camelot any more....at least not in the manner I once thought of it....peace forever...peace is earned and needs to be carefully nurtured....peace is not only spending energy on the military and redistributing the wealth into the hands and interests of the rich only..... it's putting the energy into healthcare, education, culture and creating a society that sustains these interests...without fear. (IMHO)

I agree with this Shirley.  

I still think when Hillary's eyes welled up in tears were real.  However, I do think it was from exhaustion and disappointed that she would "lose" the election.  She listened to the media like the rest of us.  I'm sorry, but I don't think those tears were from the concern of our nation.  In fact, I just don't trust her.

I don't like the implication that if someone is against Hillary or dislikes some of her tactics, it's because she's a woman. I believe if women want to be treated fairly in the workplace, they have to be held to the same standards as men. When I was in management, I would have been as concerned if a woman diagnosed with breast cancer was crying in the work place as much as I would have been if a man diagnosed with prostrate cancer was crying. I would be concerned that each of their personal struggles might get in the way of their ability to do their job, as empathatic as I was to their struggles. Crying at work is unprofessional. It distracts others from the work at hand. If Hillary's tears weren't about "I" and "me", her plans and hopes but a tragedy like 9/11 or even the VA Tech shootings-- anything less egocentric I would have been less critical. As I said before, I'm not against crying, just using it to manipulate.

On another plane, what does everyone think about Kerry endorsing Obama? I was surprised, until I did some research about the animosity between the two and remembered how Kerry was somewhat forced to take on Edwards as a running mate because of his popularity. One of the news outlets said that Kerry wasn't able (or didn't try that hard) to let Edwards know ahead of time. Ouch.

One addendum to my last post (and then I'll shut up ):

Isn't Obama playing the "African American card" every time he references MLK?  If that's okay (and personally I think it's a great strategy), why is it so wrong when Hillary plays the "female card"?

This geek summed it up pretty well .... and if I were 30 years younger, I'd ask him to marry me.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zORv8wwiadQ