Rosemary...tell us about magnesium!

Marin,

It's true as Susie says, magnesium oxide is the worst for absorption.  Why do they sell it?   And you have to look very closely at the ingredients and keep looking for that oxide word. 

Now sells the powdered form of Mg citrate.  I only buy the powder because I can easily fool around with the amount I want to take and it dissolves quicker to get to work.  Orange juice is the choice to mix it with cause that's acidic and it helps it to dissolve.  But I use cranberry juice too.  Nice pink color.  Don't get O.J. with added calcium in it because calcium wins the absorption war.  Also, B6 low dose, helps with Mg absorption, and I'm sure your drinking at least 80 ozs of filtered water a day for muscle cramping?  Coffee does not work towards that 80 oz of water.  You'll feel night and day better as soon as you find the right dose for yourself. 

You do want to keep your other minerals up too.  Calcium and potassium.  I bought some potassium gluconate, and now I'm wondering what the heck is gluconate anyway?  Unless Kris happens by, I'm into researching gluconate.  Anyway, potassium helps regulate water balance in our body.  I could use some of that balance, but I don't know what "gluconate" is.  And it's bone healthy.  I hope this helps.

The only magnesium citrate at the Health Food store was Nature's Way, "Magnesium Complex (citrate blend)".  Will that do the trick?  The ingredients are 500 mg magnesium as citrate/oxide.  I am not opening the bottle till I get the okay from you guys.

Is it better to take in morning or night?

Marin,

Since you have MG.  You may want to get your Magnesium levels checked.

When I was at my onc yesterday;  not only did they do my LFTs (which they do every three months cause mine are high)--but, they did the works including Magnesium levels, D3, an ANA profile.  Bunch of other stuff.

I think getting your magnesium levels would be particularly important for you because, although that deficiency in MG is common---too much magnesium could be more problematic for you because it acts as a muscle relaxant (which is primarily why I take it) and could cause extreme weakness in MG.

 Other levels you may want to check that is also a common deficiency is

Manganese and I'd also check Potassium. 

Thanks Kris,

I couldn't find anything about gluconate.  So it's a form of salt?  Not that I'm taking much of it, only 550 mgs.  I've read we need any where from 3.4 to 4.6 grams of potassium daily.  Impossible to do thru foods alone.  I'd like to keep it up cause we shouldn't be taking one mineral over the others.  We want to keep a happy balance.

Marin,

The optimal dosage of Mg is the dosage your body is comfortable with and that could be at 225 mgs.  A half of teaspoon of Now Mg powder is 225 mgs.  Start there for a few days, still have muscle cramping then add a little more the next day for a few more days till all cramping goes away, and you'll find your dose.  You don't want to go overboard because you'll be living in a bathroom.

Actually, I get by with just a half of teaspoon daily, but I take a calcium and mg citrate supplement in the evening which are combined, so I'm taking close to 550 mg daily, but I don't think I'm absorbing too much from the combined supplement. 

Plus, you don't have to take it every day.  It's something to use for cramping, but once you get enough water in daily, your need for Mg might change.  For myself,  I usually have to take it daily or I'll start to feel things happening.  I take it for mood besides muscles, and to maintain mood, it needs to be taken daily.   You wouldn't want to go beyond 800 mgs daily because we do eat foods with Mg in them also.  

Thanks y'all for doing this thread.  I've been taking magnesium since August, and it's the oxide variety, and further down the list, it says magnesium stearate.  I need a new bottle real soon and I'll be looking for the citrate variety next time. 

Is the test for magnesium levels a blood test?  Anyone know the abbreviation?  I have paperwork from my ob/gyn and my onc to try and get as much mileage out my next set of labs as possible.   

I took the oxide back and got "Peter Gillham's natural calm magnesium supplement".  It's a powder and 3 tsps is 615 mg of magnesium citrate.  Kind of expensive. 

Today was Femera day, (twice a week per onc), so it woud be great if the magnesium helped.  I usuallly have a difficult time sleeping on Femera day.

In Myasthenia Gravis there can be a Magnesium deficiency---but you have to be careful because supplementing Magnesium is sometimes contraindicated in patients, and may actually cause deterioration with that condition, so --I'd tread gingerly.

Gotta tell you Marin--Lately, I've been plagued with horrid foot cramps --And I probably get more Magnesium than everyone.  Anyway, I started taking a separate potassium supplement and that stopped the cramps in their tracks. If I stop the potassium they start right back up.

I find that weird since my potassium levels were normal when last checked. 

I also find if I take the Magnesium at night I sleep better.  I do the same as Rosemary--The Magnesium by itself early in the day and the calcium magnesium together before bed. 

Marin--One other thing--being a biller/coder  I can tell you that if you don't code with the right diagnosis Blue Shield will always refuse to pay. Even Medicare gets away with that stunt once in a while.   You may want to investigate whether they will pay for the levels with an MG diagnosis.  The reason for your labs always have to match a diagnosis.

DHEA is supposed to be very helpful but if you are ER+/PR+ I'd stay far away.

Don't know if you've seen this from LEF but thought it may be of interest re:supplements

Doesn't mention manganese but I think thats a very important one as is the potassium. 

http://www.lef.org/protocols/neurological/myasthenia_gravis_01.htm 

I am a firm beleiver in individualized supplementation, and have been following this thread with great interest.  I just want to add 2 points for consideration:  Postassium (K+) is elinimated by the kidneys -- around 90% of what is eaten is eliminated in the urine the same day.  So, if you have kidney problems, be careful, as elevated K+ levels can cause muscle weakness and irregular heart beat.  ACE inhibitors (lisinopril, enalapril, Vasotec, Prinavil) given for high blood pressure and heart failure, also cause the kidneys to hold more K+.  Some people who take and ACE inhibitor and potassium based salt substitutes have developed dangerously high K+ levels. 

Magnesium (Mg+) works as a laxative in doses higher than needed. I take Mg+ for depression and have to cut back or stop it for a few days every so often when I get diarrhea. 

Please, don't think I am recommending anyone stop using these supplements, I'm not!  I just think these are important effects to be aware of.  After all, knowledge is power! 

Marin -I agree with you about the DHEA.  I've always viewed it as scary stuff.  Probably before your time but e used to have a very intelligent, if not one of the more controversial member of these boards named Marinza. Class of 02-03.   She was ER-/PR- and swore by the stuff.---Said it gave her a new lease on life.  Know it increases strength.

But this is one of those supplements I would think could fuel a cancer.---Its on my scary supplement list.

Native Mainer ---Thanks for the warning about the interaction between Ace

inhibitors and potassium.  I take Lisinopril.  But, I have an additional consideration because I am on Protonix, a proton pump inhibitor like Prilosec and Aciphex, I am probably not absorbing some nutrients as I should because of the way that class of medications work.  I am however, followed very closely with labs.

Frankly, I think the cramping was a result of a paradoxical reaction to SSRI's----massive sweats.----No more of that stuff for me!  Lately I've found a natural way to deal with both my mood and pain issues (including the Magnesium citrate and D3)---(there is some research that D3 levels can effect pain.)----continually refining, adding, and modifying what I'm taking.

Thankfully, my Physiatrist (That's a Doctor that specializes in body mechanics, physical rehabilitation, and pain management) is working along with me.  

I do agree with you that the interactions between these herbs, supplements and their interaction with our current medications is often overlooked.

Some of these supplements can have just as many side effects and should be treated with the same respect that we have for any medication we put in our bodies. 

Lynn--Your friend is right. ---All supplements are not created equal.  Notorious differences have been found in Co-Q10.  Lead has been found in some supplements.  I take Sam-e and 1200 of one brand can equal less than 800 of another--- I could go on and on.

You may want to look at the iherb website.  The companies they deal with have a pretty good track record.  NOW puts out good quality at a good price.

Unfortunately, you are in an area where you have to do your homework.

Sometimes the additional ingredients may make a difference in a supplements absorption, so---and now is the additional concern about the purity of these products since many of them come from countries that don't have our standards.---going with a quality company adds one more layer of protection.

Yes, in this area you can be penny-wise and pound foolish. 

In reality, we are suppose to be getting potassium from foods, not supplementing it.  There are days when I feel a water build-up and I'll take a potassium pill.  Check out bok choy for potassium content.  Acorn squash would come to our rescue, but what the heck is that? 

http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/products/produce/list_veg.html

I found acorn squash, it's also called winter squash.  Now I have to find out if it can be juiced.

Rosemary, thanks for the veggie nutritional info link!  Acorn squash has the shape of a big acorn about the size of a grapefruit.  Here's a good recipe for winter squash soup, from Mollie Katzen of the Moosewood Restaurant.  It's snowing like crazy today and a nice pot of soup would be terrific.

CURRIED SQUASH, MUSHROOM, AND ORANGE SOUP

Adapted from: Moosewood Cookbook
Preparation time: 45 minutes
Yield: 4 to 6 servings

2 medium-sized acorn or butternut squash (about 4 pounds)
A little oil for the baking tray.
3 1/2 cups orange juice
2 tablespoons butter or oil
1 cup minced onion
2 tablespoons minced fresh ginger
1 1/2 teaspoons salt
2 teaspoon ground cumin
1/2 teaspoon ground coriander
1/2 teaspoon cinnamon
2 teaspoons dry mustard
1 tablespoons minced garlic
1/2 pound mushrooms, sliced
Cayenne to taste
Fresh lemon juice to taste
Yogurt for the top

1. Preheat oven to 375°F. Split the squash in half lengthwise, remove the seeds, and place face-down on a lightly oiled baking tray. Bake until very soft (30 to 40 minutes). Cool, then scoop out the insides. Measure out 3 cups of squash, place it in a food processor or blender with 1 1/2 cups of the orange juice, and purée until smooth. (You may need to do this in batches.) Transfer to a soup pot, and stir in the remaining orange juice.
2. Melt the butter or heat the oil in a skillet, and add the onion, ginger, salt, and spices. Sauté over medium heat until the onion is very soft (about 8 minutes). Add a few tablespoons of water, if necessary to prevent the spices from sticking.
3. Add the garlic and mushrooms, cover, and cook about 10 minutes over medium heat, stirring occasionally.
4. Add the sauté to the squash mixture, scraping the skillet well to salvage all the little tidbits of flavor. Add cayenne and lemon juice to taste.
5. Serve hot, topped with a little yogurt.

Hey Rosemary....



The magnesium has tendency to cause bloating (recall my BC surgeon reminded me of this.) So I drink karkade tea...a glass every day usually with lunch... and the gentle diuretic is effective.



Since you are more informed than I on the details of such matters...here's a web link...



http://www.drugs.com/npp/roselle.html .... so what do you think?



..the wine and cooking question...I agree that the alcohol is burned off..but not the flavor. We cook almost everything in a base of olive oil and white wine. Except the vegatables....they are eaten fresh or steamed.



I love the string beans steamed, then cooled, then a little olive oil and lemon juice sprinkled with sea salt...one of my favorites.



Sometimes I use balsamic vinegar on beef before I cook it. But mostly I use it for radicio (sp?) salad with oranges (best are blood red) and black olives.



I love the conversations when we start talking about food...



Best to all...as always