What's your opinion of this Doctor?
Comments
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This was in Time magazine about this Docs preconceived opinions of what he calls Medical Googlers--and I for one found the term "Brainsuckers" very offensive---mind you the particular
patient he is describing may be irritating and too familiar, but I found him just as irritating------
Thursday, Nov. 08, 2007
When the Patient Is a Googler
By Scott Haig
We had never met, but as we talked on the phone I knew she was Googling me. The way she drew out her conjunctions, just a little, that was the tip off — stalling for time as new pages loaded. It was barely audible, but the soft click-click of the keyboard in the background confirmed it. Oh, well, it's the information age. Normally, she'd have to go through my staff first, but I gave her an appointment.
Susan was well spoken and in good shape, an attractive woman in her mid-40s. She had brought her three-year-old to my office, but was ignoring the little monster as he ripped up magazines, threw fish crackers and Cheerios, and stomped them into my rug. I tried to ignore him too, which was hard as he dribbled chocolate milk from his sippy cup all over my upholstered chairs. Eventually his screeching made conversation impossible.
"This is not an acceptable form of behavior, not acceptable at all," was Susan's excruciatingly well-enunciated and perfunctory response to Junior's screaming. The toddler's defiant delight signaled that he understood just enough to ignore her back. Meanwhile, Mom launched into me with a barrage of excruciatingly well-informed questions. I soon felt like throwing Cheerios at her too.
Susan had chosen me because she had researched my education, read a paper I had written, determined my university affiliation and knew where I lived. It was a little too much — as if she knew how stinky and snorey I was last Sunday morning. Yes, she was simply researching important aspects of her own health care. Yes, who your surgeon is certainly affects what your surgeon does. But I was unnerved by how she brandished her information, too personal and just too rude on our first meeting.
Every doctor knows patients like this. They're called "brainsuckers." By the time they come in, they've visited many other docs already — somehow unable to stick with any of them. They have many complaints, which rarely translate to hard findings on any objective tests. They talk a lot. I often wonder, while waiting for them to pause, if there are patients like this in poor, war-torn countries where the need for doctors is more dire.
Susan got me thinking about patients. Nurses are my favorites — they know our language and they're used to putting their trust in doctors. And they laugh at my jokes. But engineers, as a class, are possibly the best patients. They're logical and they're accustomed to the concept of consultation — they're interested in how the doctor thinks about their problem. They know how to use experts. If your orthopedist thinks about arthritis, for instance, in terms of friction between roughened joint surfaces, you should try to think about it, generally, in the same way. There is little use coming to him or her for help if you insist your arthritis is due to an imbalance between yin and yang, an interruption of some imaginary force field or a dietary deficiency of molybdenum. There's so much information (as well as misinformation) in medicine — and, yes, a lot of it can be Googled — that one major responsibility of an expert is to know what to ignore.
Susan had neither the trust of a nurse nor the teachability of an engineer. She would ignore no theory of any culture or any quack, regarding her very common brand of knee pain. On and on she went as I retreated further within. I marveled, sitting there silenced by her diatribe. Hers was such a fully orbed and vigorous self-concern that it possessed virtue in its own right. Her complete and utter selfishness was nearly a thing of beauty.
When to punt is not a topic taught in medical school. There is but one observation that I can offer: Patients like Susan, as self-absorbed as they are, know it immediately. They can tell when you're about to punt.
I knew full well what was wrong with this woman, and I could treat her, probably as well as anyone. But treating her condition, which was chronic patellofemoral pain, would test the mettle of patient and surgeon. What we have doesn't work very well nor very quickly. The swelling takes months to go down, the muscles take even longer to strengthen. Good patients often complain, "It was better before we started," in desperation or anger, before they see improvement. But with plenty of therapy, braces, exercises and one or two operations, this knee does improve. It's often tough going, though, and patients have to stick with you. I like to be straight — "It gets worse before it gets better" is what I tell them. Susan's style, her history and, somehow, most telling, the way she treated her son said she was not going to make it through this. Not with me, anyway.
A seasoned doc gets good at sizing up what kind of patient he's got and how to adjust his communicative style accordingly. Some patients are non-compliant Bozos who won't read anything longer than a headline. They don't want to know what's wrong with them, they don't know what medicines they're taking, they don't even seem to care what kind of operation you're planning to do on them. "Just get me better, doc," is all they say.
At the other end of our spectrum are patients like Susan: They're often suspicious and distrustful, their pressured sentences burst with misused, mispronounced words and half-baked ideas. Unfortunately, both types of patients get sick with roughly the same frequency.
I knew Susan was a Googler — queen, perhaps, of all Googlers. But I couldn't dance with this one. I couldn't even get a word in edgewise. So, I cut her off. I punted. I told her there was nothing I could do differently than her last three orthopedists, but I could refer her to another who might be able to help. A certain Dr. Brown, whom I'd known as a resident, had been particularly interested in her type of knee problem.
Disappointed and annoyed, Susan stopped for a beat.
"You mean Larry Brown on Central Avenue?"
"Uh, yes —" I started.
"I have an appointment with him on Friday. And, Dr. Haig?" she said, pulling Junior by the arm out my office door, "Watch out on your drive home tonight. There was an accident near your exit."
Dr. Scott Haig is an Assistant Clinical Professor of Orthopedic Surgery at Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons. He has a private practice in the New York City area.
* Find this article at:
* http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1681838,00.html
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My opinion: except' for saying all nurses are trusting, I can agree with him and know that he did the right thing by punting.
If I don't click with a doc and really Trust him, I won't believe him when/if I have complications, which anyone can have. I have to know that he's doing his very best to make me better.
That's why We interview docs. Not like the woman in the article. Gads, I am sorry to say I've met them,too. And it's too bad that a nurse cannot usually "punt".
So, altho the terminology was offputting, I think he was being pretty honest.
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I read that somewhere else and I thought it was not a good article.
What was his point?
Does he not like having his credentials checked first?
Does he not like patients who are open to alternative thearpies?
Does he not like patients who have the time/resources to go doctor-to-doctor?
One of the things about going into a profession where you deal with people all the time is that you have to be willing to do that.
I think he had something to say, but he's got several different topics interwoven and this simple-minded gal wasn't able to come away with the real point of the article.
Probably good he's a Doctor and not a journalist.
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Interesting.. I always came in with a long list of questions for my Oncologist and OB/GYN. Wondered if I drove them nuts!!
Didn't bother me!
Janis
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I hope "Susan" wasn't her real name. I think he was being honest about his feelings and perception of the situation, although I'm not sure if time magazine was the right place for the article. The article seems like it would have been better suited to a professional publication. I know there are things some psychologists say among colleagues as a means of venting about certain clients and/or diagnosis types that might seem inappropriate to those not in the profession, particularly clients.
Fitz, I think there's a big difference between being a prepared and knowledgeable patient and a "professional patient" who thrives on illness and attention (munchausen syndrome).
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I think he missed his main point - it's not that the patient is a googler, it's that she wasn't listening and that she wasn't respectful (researching where he lives is a little invasive, a little stalkerish). So I think his article is mis-titled. One can be devotee of the unversity of google and still have a good relationship with a doc.
Basically, it sounds like his patient didn't listen very much. And docs have to know that you will listen to them, trust them and do what they say. I have to say that I appreciate the docs honesty - that's his reality. Even if he does come across as kind of a jerk, at least he's being honest about what works for him and how he wants to be treated. I personally ask a lot of questions about the research I find relating to my symptoms, medicines I'm taking (who wouldn't do research in this day and age) and then I LISTEN to what the expert - the doc - has to say. Just my two cents.
The reality is that in any business, there are customers that are more trouble than they're worth, and medicine is no exception. Sorry to be so blunt. Being perceived as one of those troublesome customers is my worst fear, and I've seen people with difficult medical problems get punted from place to place. That sucks. But, it's almost predictable based on their behavior: they don't provide full or systematic info. on symptoms, don't take the meds they're supposed to take, don't listen well, see docs as the enemy, etc. etc. - a whole combination of personality factors that make them hard to deal with and hard to treat. It's no wonder to me that the doc in the articles likes engineers- very logical thinkers who listen to experts, and comply. One never wants to be seen as a noncompliant patient, and I think the doc in the article was making a judgment call as to compliance.
Thanks for posting the article BTW! Interesting stuff.
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ugh . . . he lost me when he called the three year old a monster. Just nasty. I don't doubt that she was a pill but there's no reason for him to lash out in a publication like this. I'm glad he's not my doctor.
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I found the doctor's article pretty interesting. Yes, I Google. Yes, I've really annoyed multiple doctors. I often feel that I failed to be 'nice' in the socially-accepted ways that women are trained to operate in which is to demonstrate passivity & acceptance. It bothers me, but it passes.
It's more important to me to understand the reasoning behind the recommendation. Doctors have very specific training and it is not all-encompassing. There are limitations to what they study and the data they will accept. Their recommendations come from their particular field of knowledge. They are not omniscient authorities and cannot command absolute trust.
I've had doctors who were unethical. I've seen doctors simply give up when the diagnosis was not straight-forward. I've talked to doctors who don't keep up with current literature. I've also talked to doctors who are sincere, honest and dedicated to providing the best possible care. A doctor is in the position of having formal training in their field. A patient can spend their whole life trying to understand what the doc studied in med school. The really good ones can find your level of knowledge and speak to you about what they know. I find it perfectly acceptable for a doctor to say "I do not consider there to be sufficient data to support that theory/supplement/treatment. Here's what is the standard of care...". You're only paying for what they know.
Having said that, I'd also say if you go to a surgeon, the likely treatment s/he recommends will be surgery. Doctors practice what they know. If you go to a specialist, their treatment plan is likely to be within their specialty.
Sometimes I find a doctor who is not annoyed or threatened or otherwise put off by someone who asks questions about the diagnosis & treatment. These doctors who are willing to explain the basis for their recommendations are a joy to talk with and be a partner in making treatment decisions. Most doctors don't have time to explain or discuss the basis for the treatment and this makes them impatient to go to the next patient. Patients who simply trust are the easiest to manage.
I feel badly for both the doctor and the patient in the article. He offered what he knew; she wanted something different. Good luck to them both. But the outcome was the best for both of them. They are both free to find better patient/doctor matches.
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P.S. Apparently I'm a 'brainsucker'.
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Guess this one really hit a nerve with me all around. From 1990 till 2003 I managed a family practice-----very, very, reluctantly----absolutely hate confrontation---live on flight never-mind fight.
The one Doc everyone loved and wanted to see---They would wait all day to see him---he never argued, compassionate, great bedside manner--he'd do the occasional Ah huh.-----Little did they know there was no one home. They could go on forever and I tell you, he had not heard one word that the patient said.----
The other Doc--- who no one wanted to see was going to show you who was boss. Before you saw him he had a full low down from the M.A. and let me tell you --he had a preconceived notion of you that would be very rough to shake........And heaven forfend you should ask for a medication---that may have worked for you for years-----He would literally make you pay--get revenge if you will ---He would go out of his way not to give you that medication even if appropriate. He would go out of his way to pay you back for questioning his expertise.---That you had the audacity to play Doctor----You were going to pay big time!
I cannot tell you how much time I spent running interference with the HMO's because of how he treated a patient.-----Makes me cringe to even think about it---frequently trying to justify completely unjustifiable behavior. And yes, it was a difficult population to treat with high
medical needs and many with psychological issues.
Guess it accounts for my skepticism today. If a Doctor cannot appreciate my desire to be pro-active. I won't argue, but, nor will I return. ---another "Brainsucker."
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I enjoyed reading this article. I thought he did a pretty good job of summing up his frustrations. As a health care professional myself, I've dealt with patients like this. Many times. From the background checks (fine) to the intense, educated questioning (fine) to being the fourth or tenth opinion (fine) to the toddler being allowed to run wild in my exam room or office (NOT fine!) And I'll be patient and honest as best I can, knowing I, too, will punt. This patient has heard what I'm going to say already.
One thing that I may do differently is actually ask her why she came to see ME, after seeing so many others. What is it, exactly, that she needs from me that she hasn't gotten from someone else.
There is a big difference between this type of patient and the one who has a list of questions that needs addressing at a visit, or someone who has researched a topic to make an informed decision in a partnered relationship with a provider. Big difference.
Fortunately, the type of patients described in this article are few and far between, for me anyway. But they do exist, and are an enigma at best.
Anne
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I guess I'm a brainsucker too, and that was why I quit my first onc. He didn't think I needed info other than what he gave me.
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I have read of patients like this as well. Many go from physician to physician telling them what they want the doctor to dobased on some quack it of advicethey read on the internet. There is a big difference between taking part in the process of healing and taking over. There are some patientswho take over to he point where they will not trust anyone to join their team. To them, everyone else is a partof the "conspiricy" to rob them of the care they deserve. Can docs be condecending and disrespectful? Of course. But patients can be condecending and disrespectful as well.
Great article.Thanks for posting it.
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What distrubes me most about his drivel is that he's a medical professor, thus his teachings probably resemble his disenchantment with his career. It reeks of "poor me" and it's distasteful. He should have refrained, but obviously didn't have the common sense to do so. Glad though, he put his name on it; now the "brainsuckers" will now know to go elsewhere.
Are some of us "brainsuckers", yes, and we're allowed. What is the purpose of going to a doctor if not to question? I concur with Layne...my sentiments exactly!
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I didn't feel he had a problem with questions. It's the brain-picking with no intention of establishing a collaborative relationship that sucks him dry.
Anne
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