Benadryl helps LE?

Thanks for posting this.  It makes me wonder if my antidepressant medication (prozac) contributed to the lymphedema in the breast. 

The study is saying that people with lymphedema have a big increase in the amount of histamine in thier urine after manual lymph drainage massage compared to before the massage.  This means that the lymphedema fluid has a high amount of histamine in it.  (When the lymphedema fluid is moved back into circulation, the kidneys filter out the histamine and other body chemicals and get rid of them in the urine.)  That lymphedema fluid is high in histamine means that histamine is somehow involved in the development of lymphedema.  The theory is that a histamine blocker, like benadryl, may block or decrease lymphedema development. 

Adrenalin and noradrenalin are related chemicals that are involved in the 'fight or flight response' by decreasing blood flow to the arms and legs (that's why your hands and feet get cold when you are nervous or anxious).  High levels of these chemicals in the lymphedema fluid means the blood vessels near the fluid will be squeezed, not letting as much blood through as the veins and arteries as they normal.  Moving the lymphedema fluid back into circulation improves the blood circulation in the area where the fluid collected. 

Serotonin is best known for it's role in depression.  A popular class of antidepressants, serotonin re-uptake inhibitors (SRI's)like prozac increase the amount of serotonin in the brain and general circulation.  5-HIAA is a chemical that is converted to serotonin in the body, and is found in high amounts in the lymphedema fluid.  Drugs like prozac may help lymphedema develop, while blocking serotonin, like blocking histamine, may help keep lymphedema from developing.  I've taken prozac for years before and all during surgery and radiation, and wonder if this is why I developed lymphedema in the breast even though I am considered a "low" risk for LE, having only 1 lymph node removed.

Hope this helps. 

Kurz W, Wittlinger G, Litmanovitch YI, Romanoff H, Pfeifer Y, Tal E, Sulman FG.
Treatment of 29 cases of chronic lymphedema of various origins, mostly of the lower limbs, by manual lymph drainage massage resulted in significant changes of neurohormone excretion in the urine, whereas the secretion of 17-KS, thyroxine, minerals, and creatinine was not significantly changed. Comparison of the values of urinalysis before and after manual lymph drainage of the patients showed the following changes: 17-KS; -3.5% (non significant); 17-OH: -31% (significant); adrenaline: +50% (significant); noradrenaline: +19% (significant); serotonin: -22% (significant); 5-HIAA: +21% (significant); histamine: +129% (highly significant); thyroxine: -17% (nonsignificant); creatinine: -17% (nonsignificant); sodium: -1% (nonsignificant); potassium: -14% (nonsignificant). The corresponding values for ten controls were all non significant. These findings underline the importance of adrenaline and noradrenaline release by manual lymph drainage, which improves circulation. On the other hand, our results indicate the involvement of histamine and perhaps of serotonin in lymphedema formation, and suggest a combination of manual lymph drainage massage with antihistamine and antiserotonin treatment.

Hi all,

I had posted about a month or so ago with a breathing problem and was asking if LE was causing it... and was having OT to help the LE. Well.... I ended up at the Onc's office saying I couldn't breathe.  They did a chest xray and a CT scan of my neck (I also have hypothyroidism).  He said to take Claritin (an antihistamine) for 3 weeks to see if I could breathe better.  Well... I am and my arm is down over 13 centimeters.  So.... is this article saying to take an antihistamine will help LE?  Am I understanding the article correctly? Anywho... it's working for me so I plan on staying on it!!!

~Laurie

Thanks for all the clarification!

LaurieL,

This is a very interesting thread!  I read you had breathing problems a month or so ago and took Claritin.  My mom is having the same problems.  She has IBC and has recently been having a lot of problems with the lymphedema in her arms and neck.  It is also in a spot on her back.  She has had a lot of trouble breathing also.  She of course is on chemo, but I am definately going to talk to her onc and lymphedema therapist about adding Claritin.  Which Claritin did you use, I know there are a few kinds.  Thanks for your very interesting info!!!!

Thanks for the info.  I called and spoke with a nurse in her onc office earlier and she told me there would be no problem.  I called my dad and told him about this and had him give her some Claritin.  As my dad and I have allergies, we usually have Claritin around.  We are going to try this for at least a week and see if there is any difference.  I have also been reading about taking Selenium for the lymphoedema and I think we will try that as well.  It certainly can't hurt.  I will update then.  Thanks again!

I know that it is ok to use Claritin while getting chemo, because not only my chemo nurse, but my onc. told me to take Claritin for the bone pain after the Neulasta shot. 

Harley

Hello all, just wanted to give you an update.  We started my mom on Claritin and Selenium last Thursday because she seemed to be having a lot of trouble breathing (on oxygen) and trouble with her lymphodema.  Something seems to be working.  She had chemo a several days before, so I don't know what is working, but I think it may be the Claritin.  She is breathing alot better, and the spot on her back where fluid was collecting seems to be getting a smidge looser.  That article that was posted on this thread about the elevated levels of histomine in lymphodema patients makes perfect sense to me to add Claritin to help combat this.  Like I said, it may be the combo of chemo and Claritin, but I'll take it.  Tomorrow we are scheduled to try out that low light laser treatment for her lymphodema.  I will post any results in the thread named "laser????"  If it were not for this forum, I would probably not have known about the Claritin and the study, so a big THANKS for all those that commented!!!!!!  It just goes to show that when everyone shares there experiences others can benefit!!  Thanks again everyone!!!

Hi, Debbie,

Here's the reference, but it's a very old study (1978) and I don't know that it's on the web (other than the quote that rrs made when she started this thread, from Pat O'connor on Lymphedemapeople):

MURZ, W., WITTLINGER, G., LITMANOVITCH, Y.I., ROMANOFF, H., PFEIFER, Y., TAL, E. and SULMAN, P.G. (1978): Effect of manual lymph drainage massage on urinary excretion of neurohormones and minerals in chronic lymphedema. Angiology, 29:764-772.

As NativeMainer pointed out, even this research is not saying it will help to use antihistamines for LE, only that there's a lot of histamine in urine following LE massage. Other research would have to be done to see if antihistamines actually affect either LE control or LE prevention. Apparently no one has considered this a subject worth pursuing with further research yet. I'd sure like to see what would happen if they did some controlled experiments with this, but until then it's no more than theory. Kristi, if the Charitin is helping your mom's breathing that may have nothing to do with LE. (But either way, I'm sure glad it's helping!)

The use of Selenium has somewhat more research basis for helping control LE, but no more than a suggestion that it helps in (I believe) mice. And there are no guidelines at all for how much selenium is helpful. Too much selenium as a supplement, though, does have its problems. The selenium in a reasonable amount of Brazil nuts is considered safe, but the use of supplements could conceivably be dangerous.

All that just to say, please be careful. Hopefully both these directions will someday prove helpful for both prevention and treatment, but at the moment they're more of a tease than a reality. JMHO.

The laser treatment, on the other hand, is gaining more and more acceptance for some LE problems when used in conjunction with CDT, and there's more research on-going with good results being seen so far. I sure hope you'll be back soon to report great results for your mom!

Be well! 

Binney 

All of this information is helpful.  I'm at an early stage with this stuff.  My arm is swollen but so far no bigger than an 1 inch in diameter at the top from my other arm. 

I don't have my lymphedema clinic start date until Nov 19 so was looking at what I can do in the mean time.  I'm trying the self massage but it doesn't seem to help but my arm is no worse.  Plus I'm in the midst of radiation treatment.  That's not helping.  :-)

Rather than try the antihistamines at face value, I am looking to put the clinic to work researching this further.  Which is what they are doing right now.  Here is the lymphedema nurse's response from my query regarding the study.  

This study was done in 1978. It doesn’t state that the use of histamine truly effects lymphedema but that it may help. I haven’t heard of any other studies. I’ve asked our librarian to do a search.

There is a therapist in the area who promotes the use of antihistamine after a bug bite, scratch, small injury to help prevent cellulitis. There is a release of histamine and she states that “it makes sense” to use the antihistamine. Does it help? Does it decrease your risk of onset of cellulitis? Does it decrease your lymphedema?  It does make sense but there isn’t anything that I can find in the research to back it up. 

I’ll look more into it. I’ll also check to see if there are any reasons not to take the antihistamine. I know it can have an effect as both a stimulant and sleep aid. If you take it as a prophylactic will it be less effective when you really need it.  Does it have any adverse effects?

She raises good questions.  I'll see what her research comes up with.

Team work!  We'll figure this out.

Debbie 

Bumping this thread to the top.

X

I was posting in another thread about how my "paw" - which had inflated and refused to respond to any treatment - suddenly deflated almost back to normal. (trying to squeeze a long story into a quick post to get to the point)

I was militant about self-care, then got cellulitis and had to stop everything. It was around the time I finished the antibiotics that my hand started turning into a hand again. Now that you mention this, I know at some point during this time I ran out of Wellbutrin in my pillbox.

Now I've replaced it, and I posted the other day that it feels like it's plumping up again.

WTH if this is the Xfactor.

I'll stop the Wellbutrin for a few days and see what happens. I'm miserable with or without it right now.