Elizabeth Edwards for President!
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homegirl, I do not believe this child's parents believed in abortion, thus I doubt that was an option. And it is, afterall, the parents right to watch out for their underaged teenager who cannot even get an aspirin, tylenol or any otc meds without the parent's permission. Perhaps one of the meds could be detrimental to the teen's health just as an abortion could be or physically or psychologically.
And yes, Amy, you are correct about some teens not having the parental support. That's why I said if the child came from an abusive family I would have to think long and hard. I believe if that were the fact that the child could be put under the court's supervision. I am not quite sure about the law.
Shirley -
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That phone call was a complete setup.
I received this in my email from an Edwards supporter. However, I beleive she may be thinking twice.
I just hate it when people who build homes 15 times the size of my house is asking for money.
Make sure you visit their site and donate a couple of $$.
Hi Shirley!
Why does the fact that the Edwards campaign used Ann Coulter's hate speech for fundraising make you think that the call was "a complete set-up?" (They certainly didn't make her say such vicious things...)
And what do you mean by "set-up"? I would expect any presidential candidate to utilize "picture perfect" video & hate text from ideological opponents (in this case from Ann Coulter) in fundraising. I would also expect to see such statements in use on-line w/in hours by any of the major campaigns. No pre-preparation required (if that's what you were suggesting).
From my point of view, Ann Coulter shouldn't say such things (or at least not where it can be heard, read or watched) if she doesn't want to "offer aid & comfort to her (apparent) enemy" and assist in their fundraising efforts.
Finally, perhaps you could explain why you (apparently) think fundraising is a bad thing...and which presidential candidate of substantial means (since all of the declared candidates are of substantial financial means) is planning to not fundraise?--so that I can consider supporting them with my vote (since they won't want my money).
LisaAlissa -
I received that email and made a modest donation to the Edwards campaign fund. I want to reward and encourage anyone who is willing to stand up and speak truth to power.
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That phone call was a complete setup.
I received this in my email from an Edwards supporter. However, I beleive she may be thinking twice.
I just hate it when people who build homes 15 times the size of my house is asking for money.
So you think wealthy people should finance their own political campaigns?
What makes you so sure it was a set up? -
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I received that email and made a modest donation to the Edwards campaign fund. I want to reward and encourage anyone who is willing to stand up and speak truth to power.
Ditto! -
Shirley, just curious, on the flip side, how would you feel if the teen wanted to have the baby and didn't want to tell her parents because they would force her to have an abortion she didn't want?
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Shirley, just curious, on the flip side, how would you feel if the teen wanted to have the baby and didn't want to tell her parents because they would force her to have an abortion she didn't want?
Amy, I KNEW, KNEW, KNEW all about her parents. Soooo, I cannot answer your question because the scenerio just doesn't fit. Also, I do not know the law, but I cannot imagine that a parent can make a child have an abortion.
I believe you and I can agree to disagree on whether or not to get involved in a teenager's life by letting her parents know that the youngster is going to have an abortion without their consent. Please believe me I KNOW this family. And all is well.
So, with your psychology "background" please do what you think is in the best interest of the child.
Shirley. -
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So you think wealthy people should finance their own political campaigns?
Not exactly. However, when this rich man goes around the country (before he put his name into the presidential race) giving high priced speaches about poverty AND builds a castle..give me a break. All that "poverty stuff" was just a ploy to put his name in the hat. BTW, his trailer park neighbors really do not like him.
This IS priceless!Quote:
What makes you so sure it was a set up?
Because, as I understand it, Hardball called EE to let her know Ann Coulter was going to be on the show. Then when Ann Coulter was getting ready to be seated Matthews told her that EE may be calling in.
It was a setup. And I'm not saying that everything AC says is good. I'm speaking about fairness here.
I assume you've seen the cute video where John E. was fixing his hair. LOL
I Feel Pretty.
Isn't it great that we have the freedom to speak out?
Shirley -
BTW, I think Laura Bush is a classy lady and should run for presidnet.
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Amy, I KNEW, KNEW, KNEW all about her parents. Soooo, I cannot answer your question because the scenerio just doesn't fit. Also, I do not know the law, but I cannot imagine that a parent can make a child have an abortion.
I really do get that you knew the parents, no need to make it in bold. So in your mind, parental involvement is ok, as long as it's only to stop a teen from getting an abortion, but not to force her to get one? I'm really trying to understand where you stand on the issue.
I don't believe anyone should be forced to have an abortion and more than someone should be forced to not have one. That's choice. -
Shirley: You have explained yourself quite well, and as you see, many of us agree with you.
This isnt about choice because a 14 or 15 y/o is not capable of making decisions like this without some guidance.
More importantly - we all agree to disagree, so no one should be challenged to take a stance on any issues. We talk about our feelings and beliefs. This may be different from what others feelings and beliefs are.
I still like EE. Think she is one fine lady and presents herself very well. I could not have done the interview right after being diagnosed stage 4 without crying my eyes out.
Nicki -
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Shirley: You have explained yourself quite well, and as you see, many of us agree with you. Actually most of us.
This isnt about choice because a 14 or 15 y/o is not capable of making decisions like this without some guidance.
More importantly - we all agree to disagree, so no one should be challenged to take a stance on any issues. We talk about our feelings and beliefs. This may be different from what others feelings and beliefs are.
I still like EE. Think she is one fine lady and presents herself very well. I could not have done the interview right after being diagnosed stage 4 without crying my eyes out.
Nicki
Nicki,
I agree that Shirley has explained herself quite well, however I don't believe that "most of us" agree with her. I've been reading this, but didn't feel a need to express my opinion until I read that you had concluded that "most of us" agreed with Shirley. I certainly don't.
I think Shirley was incredibly lucky that this particular family really was as she perceived it to be. Many disfunctional families don't appear that way on the surface and if she had happened to encounter one of those the results might not have been such good ones. Young women have been abused, thrown out of their homes, etc. after scenes like the one Shirley staged.
Just to be clear, I do believe that the final choice about whether to have a child or not have a child has to be made by the prospective mother. When that prospective mother is a child herself, she may well need substantial guidance, but I would always be cautious about making assumptions about who the right source of guidance is. If I knew of such a young woman and felt able (or I suppose "called") to talk w/ her I would be looking to find out if she had someone to talk with and ask her if she had spoken with her parents. And then I would be listening carefully. I might encourage her to talk w/ her parents (I might even offer to talk with her with them), but I wouldn't talk to them myself. She is going to be in the best position to be aware of the dynamics in her particular family. I also wouldn't take it upon myself to tell her minister. There are also church relationships which are "less than healthy."
My view remains that Shirley was very lucky that this all turned out as well as it did.
It's because we all "agree to disagree" that I hadn't posted about this previously. But please be aware that my silence (and I expect the silence of others) doesn't represent agreement.
LisaAlissa -
Well said, LisaAlissa. My silence in no way means I agree.
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Thank you!
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Amy, if one of my grown daughters, all in their 30 age ranges, wanted to have an abortion I would do all I could to talk them out of it. HOWEVER, if they went through with that abortion I would be there for them no matter what BECAUSE I love them and nothing will ever, ever change that.
As far as the family above, I did what was right. Like I said, and I'll only say it one more time, I KNEW the family. There was absolutely NO abuse. Disappointment? I'm very sure there was. I'm sure the children were scared to death about the parents being angry. That's absolutely normal.
I'll tell you a funny story. One very early morning I heard one of my daughters vomiting. Well, first thing that came to my mind was SHE'S PREGNANT! I called my dearest friend (who, BTW, had the abortion (and I still love her) because she was trying to keep her husband from leaving..but this was before that) and said, "_____'s pregnant! She's upstairs throwing up!" (Now how stupid was I!). Don't answer that question. Anyway, my youngest daughter heard me talking to my friend and told her sister that she'd better tell me what happened. We had/have two phone lines in the house so she called me and I put my friend on hold. My child said, "Mom, would you come up here? I need to talk to you." Well, I told my friend I had to go because my child needed to talk to me. I just knew she ruined her life. I went into her room and she said, "Mom, please don't punish me because I've been punished enought. I got drunk last night." I said THANK YOU LORD! LOL
Yes, we may disagree on this abortion stuff, politics, bc treatment plans, or a host of other things. However, I do believe this "conversation" has been civil. Another however, I'm going to try my hardest to stay away from anymore of this particular discussion before it becomes ugly.
Just because some of us may disagree on issues does not mean we cannot remain civil to each other. We have too much in common no matter where you stand on issues. Life is too short to "sweat stuff." Notice I didn't say "small stuff." If you were marching FOR something that I was AGAINST,and I was marching the opposite direction, I'd still be "there" for you because you have every right to your opinion(s). I believe "respect" is the keyword here.
Shirley -
I get that Shirley--being in the field that I'm in, I usually jump to the dysfunctional scenarios I'm faced with, because the cases like your friends aren't the ones who end up in my office.
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My view remains that Shirley was very lucky that this all turned out as well as it did.
LisaAlissa, I have to add in my two cents. I don't believe I was "lucky." I was blessed to be part of this family's decision. I cannot reiterate any more strongly than I already have that I KNEW the family. I knew the outcome. I would never have thrown the children that was pregnant back into a family that was abusive.Quote:
It's because we all "agree to disagree" that I hadn't posted about this previously. But please be aware that my silence (and I expect the silence of others) doesn't represent agreement.
LisaAlissa
I recognize that. There have been many times that I have stayed out of discussions. I realize there are probably more women than not who would DISAGREE with my decision. But that's okay. We all have a right to our opinions. -
Yes, Amy, I can understand that. My oldest daughter used to be the court advocate for our local domestic violence shelter. A couple of women were even murdered that she had counselled and gone to court with. She is now an attorney, but not in the same "profession." You can really get burned out as I'm sure you know.
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I think I have shared my opinion and when I said most of us agreed, that was in respect to those who chanced sharing their opinions.
This might have been an even more interesting topic, if more shared their views. Lord knows, I cant read the minds of lurkers. So with respect to my statement about most of us agree - that was related to those that chose to share their feelings where we all could read what they were thinking.
Im am not pro life. I feel that every woman has the right to make the decision for themselves.
My humble opinion, is that a child, like I was at 16, needs some guidance. I would not have an abortion myself, but would stand behind, and have stood behind those close to me that had to make their choice.
I have breast cancer. And
Life is too short.
Nicki -
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My humble opinion, is that a child, like I was at 16, needs some guidance.
I think we all agree on that, just that whether parental guidance is always the best place for that guidance. -
That statement scares me to death! I know there are some horrible parents out there, but that's what parents are supposed to do, guide and direct their children! Let's not take that away unless it's an extreme situation. There are too many people who are willing to give up that responsibility already.
Oh, I know a lot of you will disagree with me, but I would like to see more responsibility in parenting. Maybe people need to understand what a serious responsibility parenting is and not take it so lightly. -
Shirley, I am not a parent. Cancer took care of that unfortunately.
But if I had a daughter who was as you described I would be forever grateful to you for intervening.
I think what you did was admirable.
Sheri, I agree about the parenting as well. Case in point was some former friends of mine who thought nothing of letting their 11 and 9 year old play Grand Theft Auto- the porno version. I was babysitting them one night and they put it on and I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I turned it off and made them watch the Disney channel for the rest of the night. When my friends came home I didn't say anything but the next day I did and the friendship ended that day. They felt that there was nothing wrong with the boys playing that game...
I know I have said it before, but I am so glad I was a kid when I was and not one now. -
Gina, some of the video games these kids play are so scary! My (now) 7 year old loves video games, but I have learned to really watch what he does. I also have taken him off the computer for awhile because I caught him looking at some "soft" porn he was able to get into. I still monitor what my 15 year old son does on the computer, too. Sometimes it's hard, but I am the one who is responsible, not him. He complains that his friends don't have any restrictions, but they will have to deal with that themselves. Being a parent is tough, and some days I would love to let someone else do it, but I got pregnant, I birthed these children and I am going to do my best to raise them to be responsible, caring adults.
Sorry, this is close to my heart. I'm a teacher and see how so many parents are willing to let schools and outside influences raise their kids. -
Ya know, I am sometimes naive. I am expecting parents to be responsible and caring. Denial land is sometimes a good place to be. I forget about how many children are neglected and abused. Seems like way too many. How awful if the teenager was pregnant as a result of abuse from a family member. These thoughts give me the heebie jeebies.
Then there are our wonderful teachers, like Sheri - who have a much bigger job than teaching. Mentors, counsellors, friends, substitute parents, etc. Trained to watch for signs of abuse and responsible for reporting it.
As a nurse working with the elderly, I have to look for signs of abuse in a similiar way. Asking doesnt mean anything, you look for signs, withdrawn, depressed, isolated, bruises - and so many more.
Gina: I used to love video games. Played them all the time. But the newer ones are really so violent.
Nicki -
Nicki, you wouldn't believe what was on this "game"-- but it included this guy killing everyone in sight, engaging prostitutes and then killing them when he was thru with them and even more...
for an 11 and 9 year old??? -
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Sorry, this is close to my heart. I'm a teacher and see how so many parents are willing to let schools and outside influences raise their kids.
Sheri, that's the easy way out. Raising children to become honest and productive citizens takes more time and energy. I would love to take some parents and SHAKE THEM!
Gina, you would have made a great mom.
I'm so very glad my "raising" days are done.
Shirley -
Parenting is such a hard job and too many parents want to be a friend to their child instead. It's okay to be a friend but you Must be a parent first! I had to deal with my SO's son who was 9 at the time bringing violent M rated games to the house around my then 6 year old daughter. His mom lets him play any game he wants (as well as watch any movies, listen to any songs .. you should hear some of the rap songs his mom put on his mp3 player about killing and exploiting women and using the "f" word over and over). The boy actually threw a temper tantrum because he couldn't understand why his Dad wouldn't let him play it. He didn't get that not only was my daughter not going to be exposed to that but he himself was way too young for that trash. Scary what that kind of stuff might be doing to his young mind.
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All the kids we see that have behavior problems and therapy actually need their parents to have therapy - we end up meeting with the parents most of the time....I nannyed for a family where the 2 and 3 year old each had severe tantrums, biting, and slamming my fingers in doors...I had my suspicions about the mother being the cause, but it came to a head when I went to Florida with them..she threw so many fits I wanted to put her in timeout..hehe :0
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Sorry, this is close to my heart. I'm a teacher and see how so many parents are willing to let schools and outside influences raise their kids.
Sheri, that's the easy way out. Raising children to become honest and productive citizens takes more time and energy. I would love to take some parents and SHAKE THEM!
Sometimes it's more than just laziness. Many of the parents of the kids I work with had poor role models of how to parent themselves, or were too mentally ill, impoverished, drugged out, abused etc. to know how to be good parents. Are you familiar with Malsow's hierarchy of needs? The bottom of that triangle is safety-- health, food, shelter etc. and the top is self actualization. When folks don't have the bottom "safety" things, they don't have the energy/ability to concentrate on the more sophisticated needs.
If it sounds like I'm making excuses for poor parenting, I'm not. It just helps me to have an understanding of why some parents miss the mark-- and yeah, some are just plain lazy.
Thanks to teachers like Sheri-- who give these kids the best shot at surviving childhood intact. -
Times have really changed with all the technology we have today. We need to be more vigilant with our children's activities no matter what age they are.
My daughter's MIL said that she should put our granddaughter in beauty pageants because she was so pretty (of course we grandmas think we have the cutest grandkids). My daughter said NO. And I told her GOOD for you. My granddaughter doesn't need a bigger head.
Shirley
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