Curcumin

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Hi all --
have any of you heard anything about taking Curcumin at the same time as AIs? I'mabout to start Aromasin.
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  • linapril
    linapril Member Posts: 67
    edited April 2007
    Although I do not have a direct answer for you I’m passing on two links, below.

    Also, I have in my personal notations that that it could interfere due to metabolizing through P450 pathway, I’m thinking I had decided it was okay to take. (Sorry I can not remember specifics although this was only a short while ago, AI has interfered with my memory)
    I did start taking curcumin around the time I was beginning Arimidex but it made me break out in hives so had to quit.

    http://home.earthlink.net/~ckane/brcaprev.htm#Curcumin

    http://www.mdanderson.org/departments/ci...10100508b603a14
  • truthseeker
    truthseeker Member Posts: 13
    edited April 2007

    My Dr. is a big fan of Celebrex and has suggested that I take it regularly along with my Fermara. I talke to him about taking Curcumin instead because I felt it might be a safer alternative. He said the thought that would be fine also if I was concerned about Celebrex, although he didn't think there was much of risk for me at the dosage of 200 mg which he was recommending. I would ask you doc what he/she thinks.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited April 2007

    When I finished treatments, I asked my onc about several supplements/herbs I wanted to take and she discussed them with the chief pharmacist. They came back with 'absolutely NO!' to curcumin because it ' can cause heart problems.' I'd never heard or read that but I stopped taking it (had already started). Who knows if it's true, but I'd rather not chance it.

  • wallycat
    wallycat Member Posts: 3,227
    edited April 2007
    Curcumin is in turmeric...how can that be bad for the heart.
    I've never heard of that.
  • FloridaLady
    FloridaLady Member Posts: 2,155
    edited April 2007
    I started taken cucumin last august after my bc spread to
    the skin. There is medical studies to back up the use for inflammatory dieases. Also MD Anderson website approves
    of it. My skin did clear up with chemo and curcumin. I do believe in it. Go on Ageless cure website and they
    have a place where you can read the medical studies.
  • Snarky57
    Snarky57 Member Posts: 20
    edited April 2007

    Flalady--What chemo were you doing?

  • Rosemary44
    Rosemary44 Member Posts: 2,660
    edited April 2007
    I don't think it causes heart problems, they'd be keeling in India all over the place if that were true. I wonder where they hear such stuff? It's probably keeping Indians alive.

    http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/feb2004_report_curcumin_02.htm
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited April 2007
    There's lots and lots of places you can google curcumin.

    This is just one quote from the University of Maryland Medical Center.

    http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsHerbs/Turmericch.html
    Quote:

    Atherosclerosis
    Early studies suggest that turmeric may prove helpful in preventing the build up of atherosclerosis (blockage of arteries that can eventually cause a heart attack or stroke) in one of two ways. First, in animal studies an extract of turmeric lowered cholesterol levels and inhibited the oxidation of LDL ("bad") cholesterol. Oxidized LDL deposits in the walls of blood vessels and contributes to the formation of atherosclerotic plaque. Turmeric may also prevent platelet build up along the walls of an injured blood vessel. Platelets collecting at the site of a damaged blood vessel cause blood clots to form and blockage of the artery as well. Studies of the use of turmeric to prevent or treat heart disease in people would be interesting in terms of determining if these mechanisms discovered in animals apply to people at risk for this condition.




    And their suggestion on dosages to use.

    Quote:

    The following are doses recommended for adults:

    Cut root: 1,500 to 3,000 mg per day
    Dried, powdered root: 1,000 to 3,000 mg per day
    Standardized powder (curcumin): 400 to 600 mg, 3 times per day
    Fluid extract (1:1) 30 to 90 drops a day
    Tincture (1:2): 15 to 30 drops, 4 times per day
  • JoanofArdmore
    JoanofArdmore Member Posts: 1,012
    edited April 2007
    Marin!!
    "When I finished treatments, I asked my onc about several supplements/herbs I wanted to take and she discussed them with the chief pharmacist. They came back with 'absolutely NO!' to curcumin because it ' can cause heart problems.' I'd never heard or read that but I stopped taking it (had already started). Who knows if it's true, but I'd rather not chance it. "

    Who knows if it's true?EDGE knows!I asked him, after I read this rumor.He says it's is a rediculous untruth!!
  • Rosemary44
    Rosemary44 Member Posts: 2,660
    edited April 2007

    Back to the original subject of can curcumin be used with an AI, I can't remember fully what we all found, but I think we decided against taking it daily, that it might interfere. Jeez, that wasn't that long ago, and poof, gone.

  • Calico
    Calico Member Posts: 1,108
    edited April 2007
    Rosemary,
    I think it is called chemo brain
    Where were we?

    I remember Edge said it is okay with Femara (which I take), I do not remember the other AI's with it (called selective storage? since I have only limited capacity "up there").

    God Bless
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited April 2007
    My chemo brains remembers NOTHING said about AIs and curcumin. I remember something about garlic and one of the HTs.

    All the material from Constantine on the mets thread is lost.
  • BlindedByScience
    BlindedByScience Member Posts: 314
    edited April 2007

    OK, my mind is nearly blank, too, but I take Arimidex and curcurmin is OK with that. I think curcumin may have been a problem for Aromasin. Garlic supplements were a problem with Femara.

  • mkl48
    mkl48 Member Posts: 350
    edited April 2007

    Even ordinary garlic consumption may be a problem with Femara.beth

  • mkl48
    mkl48 Member Posts: 350
    edited April 2007

    The MDA ANderson site does not approve. It rates it a C. Unproven. They have backed away from the conclusions people were reaching.

  • Rosemary44
    Rosemary44 Member Posts: 2,660
    edited April 2007
    Well, I can't use chemo brain, (Mad cow?) but I do remember something about one of the AI's using the same pathway. We had the Flockhart chart up and everything from MD Anderson. But the conclusion has escaped me.

    MD Anderson warned about the p450 pathway, and I think Arimidex uses the same one. But I don't know for sure.
  • acgw
    acgw Member Posts: 286
    edited April 2007
    I noticed that about MD Anderson; at one time they had a protocol on their website; that is no longer there.

    I have not heard of taking it with AIs; I think the majority of the work was done with Tamoxifen. I take it; initially because I thought it might help with preventing a reoccurance. I now take it because it seems to help with joint achiness. Maybe it is the placebo effect.

    I too have never heard about heart problems being associated with curcumin.
  • BlindedByScience
    BlindedByScience Member Posts: 314
    edited April 2007
    While I've never read anything specifically about curcumin causing heart problems, curcumin can cause platelets to clot less readily and if you're taking coumadin, which is often presecribed to those with heart problems, you'll have a greater blood-thinninga effect--i.e. bleed far more before the wound clots. Curcumin in high doses has been shown to cause low blood pressure in dogs but not in humans. However, I tried taking >2400 mg daily for several months and found my blood pressure dropped to an uncomfortable low. On decreasing my dose to 2400 mg daily, it came back to 112/70.


    http://www.healthtouch.com/bin/EContent_...+&cid=HTALT

    Drug and Food Interactions: Do not take Curcumin without talking to your doctor first if you are taking:

    * Blood thinning medicines (examples: warfarin (Coumadin(R)), aspirin, heparin, clopidogrel (Plavix(R)) enoxaparin (Lovenox(R)), dalteparin (Fragmin(R)))
  • Rosemary44
    Rosemary44 Member Posts: 2,660
    edited April 2007
    AH-HA! I remember calling Astra-Zeneca to find out if Arimidex used the p450 pathway and they said it wasn't on the list. So it wasn't Arimidex, but I remember tamox was on Flockhart's list in 2 places. That's all I remember.

    I found Flockhart's list again:

    http://medicine.iupui.edu/flockhart/table.htm
  • Calico
    Calico Member Posts: 1,108
    edited April 2007
    Oh my,
    what a group we are lol

    I'll go and see if I find something on Edge's website...if I can remember long enough what I read, I will post here...

    God Bless
  • Rosemary44
    Rosemary44 Member Posts: 2,660
    edited April 2007
    Uh-oh, something tells me Calico forgot already.
  • Calico
    Calico Member Posts: 1,108
    edited April 2007
  • Calico
    Calico Member Posts: 1,108
    edited April 2007
    Actually I just put it off that is not the same....
    I'll check today
  • Calico
    Calico Member Posts: 1,108
    edited April 2007
    The only thing I found was the explanation about Curcumin, nothing in the AI's section...but I did write an email, maybe it will be answered. Some of you might know this already from his newsletter.

    Curcumin
  • Calico
    Calico Member Posts: 1,108
    edited April 2007
    Here is Constantine's reply, what a kind man to go in such detail....it is so much appreciated!!!



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Calico:

    Thanks for the gracious appreciation. As to these issues, they aren't easy to understand under any circumstances, but here the evidence is wholly reassuring.

    As to the AIs, letrozole (Femara) strongly inhibits CYP2A6, moderately inhibits CYP2C19, and has a low affinity for CYP3A4; exemestane (Aromasin) is metabolized by CYP3A4, and anastrozole (Arimidex) metabolism is in part CYP1A1/2, CYP2B1, CYP2C9, and CYP3A4-mediated.

    The metabolism and pharmacokinetics of the aromatase inhibitors (AIs) show the well-know potential dependency on the p450 hepatic (liver) enzyme system, especially with CYP3A4, and to a lesser extent CYP1A1 and CYP2B1-mediation. But although curcumin can theoretical induce CYP3A4 in human hepatocytes, it been determined by Judy Raucy of the California Toxicology Research Institute (Raucy, Drug Metab Dispos (2003): Regulation of CYP3A4 Expression in Human Hepatocytes by Pharmaceuticals and Natural Products) that curcumin lacks clinically significant (true in vivo) CYP3A4 activity, and hence it lacks potential adverse CYP3A4-mediated interactions.

    Secondly, although curcumin also displays CYP1A1 and CYP2B1-mediated metabolism and anastrozole (Arimidex) is a CYP1A1-mediated AI agent, for complex reasons having to do with substrates and metabolites, when curcumin is co-administered with such agents, the effect is of increasing the bioavailability of curcumin, not of reducing the effect of the interacting agent, and increased curcumin bioavailability is unproblematic as curcumin has been demonstrated to be safe even up to 12 grams/daily.

    Finally, although anastrozole (Arimidex) metabolism is also in part CYP1A2, CYP2C9, and CYP3A4-mediated (in addition to CYP1A1 and CYP2B1), and carries an FDA labeling warning to that effect, the FDA concludes - in the same warning - that these dependencies exist but only at relatively high concentrations in vitro and therefore that it is unlikely that co-administration of (a 1-mg dose) of Arimidex with other drugs would result in any clinically significant drug inhibition in vivo, and my own research confirms this (as per AstraZenica scientists Scott Grimm and Martin Dyroff's determination (Drug Matab Dispos (1999): Inhibition of human drug metabolizing cytochromes P450 by anastrozole, a potent and selective inhibitor of aromatase) who concluded that Arimidex would not be expected to cause clinically significant interactions with other CYP-metabolized drugs at physiologically relevant concentrations achieved during therapy with Arimidex); and I determined that this is further confirmed by Masha Lam and Robert Ignoffo in their comprehensive review (J Oncol Pharm Pract (2003): A guide to clinically relevant drug interactions in oncology).

    In sum therefore, curcumin coadministration with any AI is unproblematic in terms of any potential adverse metabolic interaction or pharmacokinetics, and no adverse interactions have appeared to date for curcuminin general.

    kinds regards,
    Constantine

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Constantine Kaniklidis


    Breast Cancer Watch

    edge@evidencewatch.com
  • Rosemary44
    Rosemary44 Member Posts: 2,660
    edited April 2007
    Calico,

    That's good news. I still can't take it because of another drug I'm on which is on the Flockhart list but I do use it for anything skin related. Thanks for checking with Edge.
  • FloridaLady
    FloridaLady Member Posts: 2,155
    edited May 2007

    sorry took so long to get back. Gemzar carboplatuim and avastan. 8 mths still clear for inflammatory

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited May 2007

    Post deleted by Melissa & Tami

  • Ontario
    Ontario Member Posts: 99
    edited May 2007

    Moderators notified of Spam

  • Snarky57
    Snarky57 Member Posts: 20
    edited May 2007

    Thanks. I appreciate everyone's input. I am not going to stop taking it then.

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