JavaJana, most people who are able to comprehend (and I mean comprehend the scientific literature) are not arguing that there is no human formulation of Ivermectin. Also, there's no government conspiracy trying to prevent the use of the drug as evidenced by the fact they are okay with clinical trials.

The problem with prescribing Ivermectin off label is that there is no sufficient peer reviewed and accepted evidence proving its efficacy, also as evidenced by trials. In real world application, it has been tied to success through correlation, causation and retrospectively, which isn't deemed reliable for the medical community.

This link goes directly to the NIH site which summizes the status of trials completed and current.

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/the...

A major problem with Ivermectin use in humans for Covid is that dosage is often cited as needing to be 35 to 100 times greater than the FDA approval for anti parasitic use. Route of delivery is also a topic extensively looked at, being that IV or intra nasal delivery would be effective as opposed to oral. Oral delivery in some studies (not trials) have proven to be ineffective. One particular trial tested efficacy in invitro monkey kidney cell lines, however lung cell lines haven't been tested.

The NIH link you copied is an analysis lead authored by one of the founders of FLCCC. While he is a respected doctor in his field, it does not matter. At this point in time Ivermectin has no FDA approved use for Covid in the dosages needed or routes of delivery proven to be most effective in trials.

It is not fake news that people are harming themselves by using animal formulations of the drug. They are too ignorant to understand that people willing to risk the unknown side effects of its usage are talking about human formulations in dosages not approved by the FDA. Also, Not knowing the risk means we have no idea if it is even safe for human use in those dosages, but is certainly a better option than taking the domesticated animal drugs.

Please stop spreading misinformation by saying everything is fake news because it could potentially harm less educated folks. You are, by way of trust, misleading those ignorant people into thinking they can cure themselves.

Thanks. AlwaysMeC. I was working on debunking that post, but you beat me to it and did a far superior job as well.

I always appreciate genuine scientific literacy.

Trish

exbrnxgrl, they are separate entities. If I were to give any thought to one, it would be the FLCCC. They appear to be a group of clinicians who care. One of their founders expressed his dismay with right wing groups referring to his recommendations as evidence for not vaccinating, when the purpose of forming the group was for he and fellow physicians to share info and devlop protocols for treatment of different phases of onset and progression. They are proponents of social distancing and vaccination.

The jury is still out on Ivermectin. As we know, as cancer patients, there are many drugs which we would like to work. It would be great if Ivermectin was such a drug, but the majority of the scientific community just doesn't think so, and I am inclined to listen until it's proven wirhout a doubt.

I apologize in advance if I am not seeing it, JavaJana, but where is the retraction? I don't see anything on the site for the news station or in the Tulsa World. I read the Rolling Stone article that printed a statement from one of the hospitals the MD used to work for saying they are not backed up. Is that the only hospital in South Eastern Oklahoma? I do admit he could have been exaggerating, which brings me to the topic of Dr. Fauci versus a practicing MD.

I trust Dr. Fauci because he is credited with life saving discoveries and has worked on the forefront of crises such as HIV, ebola, MERS, SARS, and more, under six presidents. Why shouldn't I trust him? He was busy establishing protocols and guidelines for every American doctor that treats patients. He wasn't sitting in his private practice only treating a small sample of patients who may or may not have any of the diseases that he has been credited worldwide for helping to treat and mitigate.

Why would Dr. Fauci be working with patients when he is a researcher? If you know about his history, particularly with respect to HIV/AIDS you would have a greater understanding of where his expertise lies. I am not a doctor but I would imagine it’s hard to juggle a top position at the NIH and research with a clinical practice, Yes, I trust Dr. Fauci. Is he always right? No, particularly when it comes to a novel virus and as a scientist he knows that science has to pivot when new information is discovered. That’s how science works

Yes, horse de-wormer has become a common way for many to refer to Ivermectin. Many people are well aware that there is an approved human version of the drug too but it is not an anti-viral so most doctors will not prescribe it off label. Merck, the manufacturer, has put out a very clear statement saying not to use it for Covid19. So, people have been going to farm supply stores for the horse version, no prescription needed. Hence the horse dewormer moniker

WRT Dr. Fauci, the question of his authority is extremely puzzling to me. While I am not aware of his specific credentials, it is typically epidemiologists that are weighing in on COVID related matters. They study population health issues, like pandemics and normally are not clinicians. That does not make them any less a doctor and, by far, more of an authoritative voice on issues like COVID. Our PHO is an epidemiologist who works for the province. I may not agree with every decision she makes but I have no doubt that she makes those decisions based on her expert judgment and opinion.

The ivermectin debate is comical to me. As I noted in an earlier post (although not sure anyone paid attention to it) it is still a drug with potentially toxic effects, regardless of the dose. (It is well known to cause significant mortality in several breeds of dogs who possess a specific genetic mutation. This includes collies - I had one almost die from a dose of Imodium - a related drug.) I find it mind boggling that someone who is afraid to be vaccinated due to exceedingly rare side effects from a well known technology (mRNA is not a new, unproven technique folks) is willing to take the risk of a drug with no known efficacy against COVID, sometimes at greatly increased doses. Dumb, dumb, dumb….

sadiesservant,

Word! Dr. Fauci’s credentials, when it comes to epidemiology, are as good as they get. For some reason there are those who believe that even our greatest experts should be infallible. They are humans and no human is infallible. What is important is that when new info comes to light, they revise what has been previously thought. I for one hope it stays that way!

I am fairly certain that continuing to debate this is very similar to banging ones head against the wall yet as an educator, even in retirement, I still believe in the importance of education.

Marguerite - It's probably as you suspect that your surgery wasn't cancelled because it was outpatient. Hope you recover quickly.

So, backing out again, but posting this article since it's exactly how I feel. There may be a smattering of swearing.

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/oh-my-fucking-...

Oh, Alice. I am so sorry to hear about your friend's brother. No matter our age, it's so hard to lose a sibling.

Trish

Alice - my condolences on the loss of your friend's brother so very sad.

SerenitySTAT, love the link you posted!

My husband was vaccinated during chemo and just got the booster shot. His oncologist said that the chemo made the initial vaccinations less effective because his immune system was repressed hence the need for the booster shot

Very good point about the importance of wearing a mask, respecting distance, and avoiding crowded social situations. Even if someone has reservations about getting vaccinated, why can't they do these small easy things for themselves and the community? When I see them I think, "Just put the mask up, you big baby." But that's not really fair, because I see cute tiny little three-year-olds wearing their mask in the grocery store with no issues, learning more care and respect for others and themselves than so many adults.

illimae,

You've brought this up before. People aren't blaming those who are medically exempt from vaccination. Everyone who wants more people vaccinated understands this. No one expects 100% of people vaccinated. We just need more vaccinated. And yes to more masking and other measures which seem to be a problem for people against getting vaccinated.

There was a screenshot earlier in this thread showing bed capacity in a Florida hospital. The occupancy rate remained stable, but if you looked closely, the number of COVID beds increased significantly over the summer. They maintain occupancy rate by blocking non-emergent patients like a cancer patient needing a transfusion.

The Texas department of health is concerned about overall hospital capacity due to rising COVID cases. They're asking people to get vaccinated. That seems a better indicator than your hospital experience.

In another state, they have more ICU patients than staffed beds. COVID patients are 52% of ICU patients.

This is a problem that should not be hidden!

Completely agree. Vaccinations alone will not get us through the pandemic.

Vaccinations will help our healthcare system by keeping most COVID+ people out of it.