Did you receive the Covid Vaccine?

Two-week countdown, and then I am a fully-vaccinated person! I did get a fever the evening of the second dose and the day after, which I took as a positive sign telling me my immune system was working on it. I also got a fever after my flu vaccine, so that is what my body does, apparently.

Here is the question: What should my policy be about visiting with unvaccinated friends or relatives? On the one hand, the CDC says a fully-vaccinated person can visit indoors without masks and distancing, with other fully-vaccinated people, or with low-risk unvaccinated people from one household. BUT the official word from my cancer center is that "We don't yet know how much protection the vaccines offer cancer patients, so keep wearing a mask and staying six feet away from one another." I tried emailing my onc nurse, figuring she could answer the question with my particular case in mind, but she hedged and gave me a non-answer about asymptomatic carriers and weighing risk-benefit. I will try asking my onc in person next appointment. I just want to know if I can invite my young adult unvaccinated relative to dinner or go to a park in the same car with them.

Has anyone here had the same question? What did you come up with?

Candy, that stinks. I want to shake them and say, "Just do it for candy!" My relative has some objection but I don't know exactly what it is as I have been asked to "respect my decision." I think either they are believing some poppycock that makes them not believe the pandemic is real, or they fear the vaccine will harm them, or they are failing to see that even when a person does not feel in danger themselves, they could get vaccinated for the sake of other people. This is a good-hearted person, and not stupid, so I am frustrated and bewildered. Now the other young person of concern was glad to let me make their appointment; they just didn't want the hassle! That was a win-win.

Thank you for that info, Nkb. It makes me realize that what I really need to say to my onc is that if I am to continue staying home and not seeing people even when fully-vaccinated, I need a darn good reason, theoretical or data/study, to show why I should do so. Me, as an individual, not as a generic cancer patient, which as we know encompasses so many different conditions and treatments. I am not on chemo, but rather targeted and hormonal therapies, and my blood counts are good. What if my onc will not advise me, fearing to be blamed for advising me without proper studies behind her?

I'm not talking about doing crazy things like large gatherings, going maskless in public, going to a movie theater or restaurant, etc. I just want to do my own grocery shopping and hug my vaccinated family and friends, and invite them into my house. I want a haircut. There is that little detail about a shortened life to consider. I was afraid that if I got sick my treatment would be stopped -- one of our BCO members here did get taken off her trial because of covid lungs. I was afraid of getting seriously ill because my body is battered with treatment, and dying alone in a hospital. I was afraid my DH would get it and fare the same. But if my risk of severe illness is greatly reduced, I think DH and I are willing to tolerate a small remaining risk in order to live a better life now.

Regarding vaccines for elderly folks, I have worried about my older relative who had no vaccine reaction to speak of.

NKb- I saw that study as I was unhappy with the UK dosing approach, and I didn't even get Pfizer. The blood cancer folks are the worst, but even with solid tumors its not that great. Still, information about all of this is still incoming and people won't know for a while what the outcome is and I guess that is just something we have to live with and manage our own risks. Hoping that Israel provides some sort of data shortly given they vaccinated everyone on schedule with the same vaccine. This is why herd immunity is so important though, to protect those who cannot have a complete response or even get the vaccine in some instances.

From New York Times today: Why do so many vaccinated people remain irrationally fearful? Listen to the professor's story.

Guido Calabresi, a federal judge and Yale law professor, invented a little fable that he has been telling law students for more than three decades.

He tells the students to imagine a god coming forth to offer society a wondrous invention that would improve everyday life in almost every way. It would allow people to spend more time with friends and family, see new places and do jobs they otherwise could not do. But it would also come with a high cost. In exchange for bestowing this invention on society, the god would choose 1,000 young men and women and strike them dead.

Calabresi then asks: Would you take the deal? Almost invariably, the students say no. The professor then delivers the fable's lesson: "What's the difference between this and the automobile?"

In truth, automobiles kill many more than 1,000 young Americans each year; the total U.S. death toll hovers at about 40,000 annually. We accept this toll, almost unthinkingly, because vehicle crashes have always been part of our lives. We can't fathom a world without them.

It's a classic example of human irrationality about risk. We often underestimate large, chronic dangers, like car crashes or chemical pollution, and fixate on tiny but salient risks, like plane crashes or shark attacks.

continues...

Shetland- I have been grocery shopping once every 2 weeks double masked during senior hour in a small upscale grocery store for several months. I go on the day my white count is highest. At first I was pretty nervous- but, they restrict numbers and I am thinking that most of the seniors there are fully vaccinated. I know the staff is because I asked them. I have been inside a few Fabric stores with an appointment and although this is not much I feel a world better with just those ventures and I think they are low risk. I have seen my kids and grandkids who are mostly vaccinated although they also test before coming. I did get together in doors with a fully vaccinated friend who was crazy careful including no haircut. My hairdresser of 30+ years has come to my house and cut it and colored it on my deck while she was masked. Made a huge difference- I hope that you can do that.
On the other hand I have also been to the hospital, lab and pharmacy multiple times- at first it was a ghost town, but, now there are tons of people at the lab. So.... I am trying to continue to assess risk and assuming I am going to need a booster, and hoping to do more as cases go down and more people are vaccinated.
I wonder if doing an antibody test will create liability - pros and cons

Feeling optimistic

MRI was negative for anything. Hard to believe this pain is just muscle strain. Dr also found bursitis in the elbow. Of course lymphedema kicked in abit. Meds didn't agree with me and went to ER with heart palpitations. Massage helped the most so far. Will do the full set scans next month.

Interesting discussion all. Here in Canada, most provinces have chosen to focus on giving everyone a first jab to try to build up herd immunity. But, of course, there is some research indicating that those on chemo should have their second jab before the three week mark. Some provinces have decided to follow these guidelines. Most, including my province, are watching. The comment today in the usual Monday press conference is that they are able to monitor all groups to see if there are concerns. So... if a bunch of folks on chemo pop their clogs we know there is an issue? Very comforting

Divine,

This seems to be a million dollar question that nobody knows the answer yet. Since cancer patients weren't part of the original clinical trial, it is hard to say how our immune system would respond.

There was a small non peer reviewed study in UK that compared cancer patients immune response following 1st dose vs. 2nd dose. It seems to suggest the 2nd dose offers enough protection vs just the 1st dose for cancer patients.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.17...

On the other hand, there is another study in UK that says the 1st dose provides enough protection for myeloma patients

https://www.icr.ac.uk/news-archive/first-covid-jab...

There are well known epidemiologists (like Monica Gandhi from UCSF) on twitter saying its not about how much antibody you generate, its all about T cell response.

I wish there are trials or followups to see how people like us (going through a variety of treatments) would respond to the vaccine.

When's the next big cancer research brouhaha? Is it SABCS? I imagine there will be more than a few papers presented on vaccine efficacy and those under different protocols,etc, with some initial findings to come out in early Fall. I did give an extra vial of blood last week for "research purposes" as I'd had two doses of AZ ten weeks apart,with that information noted on a special form. This is through the Marsden, so I don't know if it is for internal tracking and analysis or hypothesis development or what. I'll ask my MO later in the month what they have cooking.

Divine - that sounds a bit like standard CYA and phrasing more to keep folks who may be immunecompromised aware rather than based in any large scale study (as the data doesn't exist yet) about levels of immunity or how long it lasts. SPony's approach sounds to me how I would interpret the CDC advice - combining what you know of your current situation and those around you and being wary/taking extra precautions in unknown situations.

The vaccines can cause swollen lymph nodes, so I don't know if they would affect bone scans in any way. It's best to ask before scheduling.

addendum- I just read today that the John’s Hopkins study showed a 43% antibody response to second vaccine for people on anti- metabolites ( Xeloda etc) they are researching what to do about it- so stay vigilant!

Also correction my county had 68% vaccinated. The highest county around me is 74%. Some zip codes have a higher number of elderly and their rates are higher. There is a website to check your area

Just want to point out the antimetabolites included in the Johns Hopkins organ transplant study are "h Includes mycophenolate mofetil, mycophenolic acid, or azathioprine" (see footnote of the linked article/table). While I don't know the specific difference between Xeloda and mycophenolate mofetil/etc.., I believe the antimetabolites these people are on are specifically designed to wipe out their immune system to prevent rejection. It might worth asking our MOs about this.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/...

I just had my shot today .. so far just a sore arm but we will see how overnight goes .. my counts were okay enough for it though I still consider them low.

In Canada where the supply chain is not that great especially the province I’m in , my next shot is booked for September ! So I’m a bit fearful this one is gonna be redundant. If everyone gets their first shots soon it may open up earlier for those of us that need it earlier , but that remains to be seen. Our doctors can try to request one sooner but it is case by case.. so I’m not holding my breath. I think their thinking is some protection is better than none. 🤦🏼♀️