Who get an annual MRI in addition to an annual mammogram?

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JaneQPoppy
JaneQPoppy Member Posts: 141
edited June 2020 in Waiting for Test Results

I really didn't know where to post this. Mods please move if there's a better place for my question.

A friend of mine has dense breast tissue and Medicare pays for an annual MRI in addition to her annual mammogram. She thinks I should push my docs to see if I can get an annual MRI, too, for "peace of mind." Yesterday I had my annual mammogram and the radiologist found a change from last year that he wants to biopsy next week. I've had two other biopsies, the one that discovered my IDC five years ago and one that was negative a couple of years later. I'm not opposed to next week's biopsy, but I don't see how an MRI would have given me more "peace of mind." I'm guessing that the mammogram found the same thing an MRI would have found and I'd be having a biopsy in any case. I expect the biopsy will either give me peace of mind or throw me down the rabbit hole again.

Can I hear from others who get an annual MRI. Does it give you peace of mind? Has the MRI found stuff (or definitively NOT found stuff) better than a 3D mammogram? Is it strictly for people who have dense breasts?

I have a serious case of FOMO*. Is this something I should be lobbying my doc for?



* Fear of Missing Out

Comments

  • sbelizabeth
    sbelizabeth Member Posts: 2,889
    edited June 2020

    I'm a bit astonished Medicare would pay for a screening MRI every year.

    When I was diagnosed in 2011 my surgeon said breast MRIs were becoming the chi-chi thing to do and I could have one if I wanted one, but it most likely wouldn't tell them anything my mammogram, ultrasound, and biopsy already told them, and it might show something that would need to be investigated that almost certainly would be nothing. Sure enough, it turned up a tiny lump in the other breast that delayed my lumpectomy and provided me a worried weekend before another ultrasound proved it was just a wonky lymph node.

    But that's a different scenario than what you're describing here. An annual MRI just for screening? I'd have to have extremely dense breasts, and a lot of convincing it was worth it, before I'd agree to go through that every year. Maybe someone will come along with another perspective, but it sounds like overkill.

  • Veeder14
    Veeder14 Member Posts: 880
    edited June 2020

    I get a screening MRI annually. My cancer did not show up on ultrasound or mammogram. I only trust the MRI although rotate every 6 months with mammogram. I began MRI after being Dx BRAC2. Insurance covers it because of the gene mutation but will not pay for 2x per year

  • JaneQPoppy
    JaneQPoppy Member Posts: 141
    edited June 2020

    Two very interesting and different perspectives! Thanks, ladies!

    sbelizabeth said: "...it most likely wouldn't tell them anything my mammogram, ultrasound, and biopsy already told them..."

    An MRI after a biopsy doesn't make sense to me. Surely a biopsy where actual tissue is removed and examined would be more definitive than any picture. It's my understanding that the MRI/mammogram/sonogram come first to see if a biopsy is necessary.

    I googled around on the subject and read that an MRI is warranted if the person is at high risk genetically for BC (as Veeder14 said), but since I've already HAD breast cancer, doesn't that make me high risk? I mean, I'm not just a candidate for the club, I'm IN the club. I guess I'm wondering why any woman who has already shown she is at high risk by actually being diagnosed with BC wouldn't automatically be a candidate for annual screening MRI. (Which, I guess, she could decline.)

  • momto3sons
    momto3sons Member Posts: 311
    edited June 2020

    I get an annual screening MRI along with the annual mammogram (June for the MRI, December for the mammogram). That all started because they noticed some issues on my mammogram in December 2017, which led to an MRI and biopsies. The area of concern did show up on that first mammogram, but not on ultrasound. It took a battle to get the MRI approved by insurance. But now due to being noted as high risk I haven't had a problem getting it approved. I just had one last week, and it does appear there are some changes from the one last year, and from the mammogram in December 2019.

  • Each_day_2018
    Each_day_2018 Member Posts: 154
    edited June 2020

    I always say push for what gives you the answers to have peace of mind. My doctor doesn't recommend screening MRIs for me because of all the chemo and radiation I have already been through, he doesn't want me to be exposed to more than I have to. Now, that said, if I have a concern or my bloodwork is looking wonky, he will certainly schedule one, no questions asked. I have been comfortable to this point and I know if I have a concern he will appease me when necessary.

    Any one imaging procedure, whether it is US, Mammogram, MRI, PET, etc, can't give the full picture. It gives pieces and when used together can give a better idea of what is being dealt with. When imaging is done after a biopsy has already proven a diagnosis of cancer, it is generally to see if it has spread beyond the palpable lump, area of concern, or biopsy sight. I'm so glad I had one after my biopsy, because it found an internal mammary lymph node that would not have even been considered for removal at the time of my surgery because it was nowhere near my tumor site.

  • JaneQPoppy
    JaneQPoppy Member Posts: 141
    edited June 2020

    No matter how much I learn about BC, there's always more to learn...

  • ctmbsikia
    ctmbsikia Member Posts: 1,095
    edited June 2020

    Jane I think your are right. If a biopsy is already scheduled why would they want to do an MRI also? Did you have one done around the time of your diagnosis? I would think that depending on the results of the biopsy the doc could recommend alternating mammo/MRI. Good luck!

    I had an MRI at diagnosis and was told I would do the alternating mammo and MRI every 6 months until the BS says OK to go back to just annual mammos. I'm 2 yrs out and already had to have a biopsy this past January thanks to the MRI seeing an enhancing lesion. They do see things that mammo and ultra sound did not, especially if you have dense breasts. Thankfully I passed the bio, it was fat necrosis. I have just the diagnostic 3D mammo up next, not sure if I'm done with the MRIs yet.

  • JaneQPoppy
    JaneQPoppy Member Posts: 141
    edited June 2020

    ctmbsikia, I've never had a breast MRI. My cancer was caught five years ago with a regular mammogram. Then a couple of years later I had a biopsy (negative, thank goodness) on the non-cancer side, also dictated by a mammogram. I had a regular mammogram earlier this week and next week's biopsy is on the non-cancer side near the site of the earlier negative biopsy. I don't have dense breasts and I've never had a breast sonogram. It's a girlfriend of mine who thinks I should push for mammogram PLUS MRI because she does have dense breasts (and has had a lumpectomy). She wants me to have the same "peace of mind" that she has by getting both procedures.

    I'm intrigued by earlier replies that said the MRI caught something the mammogram didn't (which I can easily see). And another one that said even after a biopsy, the MRI caught something lurking near the biopsy site that the mammogram hadn't caught (and of course, the biopsy didn't either).

  • MelissaDallas
    MelissaDallas Member Posts: 7,268
    edited June 2020

    My MRI was done after a needle biopsy that showed LCIS, which is usually an incidental finding and not shown on imaging, before my excisional biopsy to make sure nothing else was seen.The problem with MRIs as a separate “screening” tool (as opposed to using to correlate known findings) is that they are very sensitive, but also very nonspecific. In other words, lots of false positives, so lots of additional biopsies added.

  • JaneQPoppy
    JaneQPoppy Member Posts: 141
    edited June 2020

    Thanks, MelissaDallas, that makes sense!

  • CTLMom
    CTLMom Member Posts: 56
    edited June 2020

    I have an annual breast MRI which does help give me some peace of mind. My initial cancer that was diagnosed in 2007 was not seen on a mammogram. I first felt a small lump in 2005 that did not show up on the mammogram. They did ultrasounds every 6 months until one doctor decided to do a biopsy. After I got the results I went to Boston and my breast surgeon ordered an MRI which found several small tumors in the same breast. This was done prior to my mastectomy. I also have dense breasts. I know some states require insurance companies to pay for breast MRIs for patients that do have dense breast tissue. My surgeon orders it every year and I don't even have to ask. Between her and my MO I feel very comfortable with my follow up care.

    Each_day_2018- MRIs do not use radiation so I don't why your doctor would not want to order it annually. However, I may have misunderstood his reasoning.

  • MinusTwo
    MinusTwo Member Posts: 16,634
    edited June 2020

    There are issues with the MRI contrast medium - gadolinium.

    I had dense breasts. After yearly mammos, I was always called back for diagnostic mammo & ULS. I'm all in favor or extensive testing, particularly before surgery to identify every possible area, and down the road to make sure everything is clear - but I would not have an annual MRI.

  • JaneQPoppy
    JaneQPoppy Member Posts: 141
    edited June 2020

    MinusTwo wrote: "There are issues with the MRI contrast medium - gadolinium.

    "I had dense breasts. After yearly mammos, I was always called back for diagnostic mammo & ULS. I'm all in favor or extensive testing, particularly before surgery to identify every possible area, and down the road to make sure everything is clear - but I would not have an annual MRI."


    Is it because you have a reaction to the dye?

  • Ingerp
    Ingerp Member Posts: 2,624
    edited June 2020

    I was told I'd get alternate mammos/MRIs every six months only if they'd found some genetic mutation when I had the testing done, which they did not. It's a little nerve-wracking to only get looked at once a year but that's the standard of care.

  • MinusTwo
    MinusTwo Member Posts: 16,634
    edited June 2020

    Jane - So far I haven't been allergic to the dye, but I try to put as few chemicals in my body as possible. And this one does have known side effects. My cancers were all discovered with either diagnostic mammo or ULS. I did have them confirmed with MRI, and as I said, gladly had an MRI after all treatment to make sure everything was gone.

    I'm not adverse or resistant to scanning - PET, CT or MRI. My docs just never pushed "regular" MRIs, even with my HER2+ status, and I'm glad.

  • buttonsmachine
    buttonsmachine Member Posts: 930
    edited June 2020

    There is pretty specific criteria about who gets an annual MRI along with a mammogram. There are combined risk factors that warrant MRI screening that involve breast density, family cancer history, genetic risk factors, and past personal history of breast cancer.

    I get an annual MRI and mammogram, each alternating at about every six months, to my remaining left breast because I was diagnosed young and have dense breast tissue. This is a good way for my doctors to monitor local recurrences in my cancer/right side, and screen my left side. My sisters also follow the yearly MRI alternating with a 3D mammogram regimen, because although we don't have any genetic reasons to have cancer, the fact that I got BC so young puts them in the high risk category.

    For me it's definitely worth it. For my sisters it's definitely worth it. If you feel like it would be worth it to you, you can definitely bring it up to your doctor. MRIs do show different information than a 3D mammogram, but for many people it would be overkill. Hope that helps.

  • JaneQPoppy
    JaneQPoppy Member Posts: 141
    edited June 2020

    Since I've already HAD cancer, doesn't that put me in a high-risk group?

  • buttonsmachine
    buttonsmachine Member Posts: 930
    edited June 2020

    Not everyone who has had BC wants or needs yearly MRIs - it depends on a variety of factors. That being said, some doctors and patients prefer to err on the side of more imaging, even if it results in more false positives and more biopsies.

    You might find these pages helpful:

    https://www.breastcancer.org/symptoms/testing/types/mri/diagnosis

    https://www.breastcancer.org/symptoms/testing/types/mri/screening

  • TrixieBlue
    TrixieBlue Member Posts: 21
    edited June 2020

    My medical team recommends alternating mammograms and MRIs every six months. I got a second opinion from another MO about my survivorship plan, and he agreed. I have dense breast tissue and it gives me peace of mind. The MRI I had after diagnosis but before surgery confirmed that there were no other issues that could change surgery plans.

  • Each_day_2018
    Each_day_2018 Member Posts: 154
    edited June 2020

    CTLMom -Sorry for the unclear comment. I didn't mean that MRIs have radiation; I meant my dr doesn't want to expose me to additional products that might be unnecessary due to the toxic strain that chemo/radiation/medication has already done to my body. Radiation isn't the only undesirable thing you can have...MRI contrast can have effects on the liver...so when you are taking a medication with a side effect of liver toxicity, it can exaggerate the effects.

  • sbelizabeth
    sbelizabeth Member Posts: 2,889
    edited June 2020

    I was diagnosed almost nine years ago, and of course, things have changed since then regarding imaging studies. My surgeon offered me an MRI, after the biopsy and before the lumpectomy, to see if there might be anything unknown going on in either breast that would affect the lumpectomy decision. As things turned out, my cancer was far more invasive than initially believed, and the MRI didn't reveal that fact.

    Since I've have a double mastectomy my oncologist doesn't have me do mammograms. Yay. I have no cancer-related imaging at all, unless I have symptoms that need investigating.

    I can see where regular screening MRIs could be of benefit for high risk individuals who fit specific criteria, but as MinusTwo stated, they're not risk-free.

  • JaneQPoppy
    JaneQPoppy Member Posts: 141
    edited June 2020

    buttonsmachine wrote:

    Not everyone who has had BC wants or needs yearly MRIs - it depends on a variety of factors. That being said, some doctors and patients prefer to err on the side of more imaging, even if it results in more false positives and more biopsies.

    You might find these pages helpful:

    https://www.breastcancer.org/symptoms/testing/types/mri/diagnosis

    https://www.breastcancer.org/symptoms/testing/types/mri/screening

    __________________________________________________________________________________

    Thank you so much for those very informative links!

  • Beesie
    Beesie Member Posts: 12,240
    edited June 2020

    "Since I've already HAD cancer, doesn't that put me in a high-risk group?"

    Yes, but the medical community as a rule does not admit this anddownplays this risk.

    Read this thread:

    Topic: How common is a 2nd cancer in other breast? https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/88/topics...



  • JaneQPoppy
    JaneQPoppy Member Posts: 141
    edited June 2020

    Thanks, Beesie.

    The following is from the screening article that buttonsmachine linked to:

    The American Cancer Society also recommends that women at moderately increased risk of breast cancer — those with a 15-20% lifetime risk — talk with their doctors about the possibility of adding breast MRI screening to their yearly mammogram. According to ACS guidelines, this includes women who:

    • find out they have a lifetime risk of breast cancer of 15-20%, according to risk assessment tools based mainly on family history
    • have a personal history of breast cancer, ductal carcinoma in situ (DCIS), lobular carcinoma in situ (LCIS), or abnormal breast cell changes such as atypical ductal hyperplasia or atypical lobular hyperplasia
    • have extremely dense breasts or unevenly dense breasts when viewed by mammograms

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