Does lumpectomy makes the cancer cells spread?

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Eigna
Eigna Member Posts: 438

I was wondering if lumpectomy promotes the spreading of cancer cells? I’m just worried and overwhelmed. Still waiting for my appointment.

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  • Beesie
    Beesie Member Posts: 12,240
    edited August 2019

    Do you mean surgery in general, or lumpectomy vs. mastectomy?

    The goal of surgery is to remove all the cancer in the breast. If all the cancer has been removed, it can't spread.

    After a lumpectomy, usually radiation is given. The purpose of radiation is to mop up any rogue cells that might still be left in the breast after the surgery. The combination of lumpectomy + radiation is at least as effective, if not more effective, than a mastectomy, based on numerous studies that have compared survival rates for both types of surgery.

    In most cases where breast cancer has spread beyond the breast, the movement of the cancer cells took place before surgery and usually before the cancer was even diagnosed, during the time when the cancer was developing in the breast. Most breast cancers have been in the breast several years before the area of cancer is large enough to be detected. This is the time when the cancer might spread.


  • Eigna
    Eigna Member Posts: 438
    edited August 2019

    Yes I meant during surgery. Thanks Beesie

  • bcincolorado
    bcincolorado Member Posts: 5,758
    edited August 2019

    No. Lumpectomy will not cause your cancer to spread. It is possible that after the pathology report comes back the breast surgeon did not get enough as good as they are are or as hard as they try. Then they do re-execission surgery but it is not caused by "spreading cancer" at all.

  • santabarbarian
    santabarbarian Member Posts: 3,085
    edited August 2019

    I disagree... The inflammation post- any surgery (LX or MX) can encourage metastasis / spread. That's why the anaestheics they use for the surgery are relevant to preventing metastasis. Ketorolac is the one that's best. Even a needle biopsy can spread cells.

    One complimentary practice to reduce risk is take modified citrus pectin (PectaSol) for 2 weeks prior to surgery. My Naturopath had me do this. And I spoke to anesthesiologist re ketorolac.

    (I think that people must rarely call the anesthesiologist... he was so chatty and happy to talk!!)

  • WC3
    WC3 Member Posts: 1,540
    edited August 2019

    Not exactly. Surgeons try to take wide margins and if the margins come back dirty they cut until they get clear margins when possible.

    So seeding is not often the culprit in distant metastasis with breast cancer.

    What they have found is that some cancer cells spread early and then go in to a dormant state.

    When the body is injured, cell signaling pathways that promote healing are activated, and this cell signaling can awaken dormant cancer cells.

    That being said, surgery, when possible, is still the most curative treatment for breast cancer and while women who have had lumpectomies might have, or in the past had, more local recurrences, they do not necessarily have a higher overall long term mortality rate than women who have had mastectomies.

    At this point in time, cutting the cancer out, when possible, is better than not.

  • ShetlandPony
    ShetlandPony Member Posts: 4,924
    edited August 2019

    What WC3 said. So I would request to toradol/ketorolac for surgery (see threads here on BCO) to reduce the inflammation. Then focus on not delaying the systemic therapy after surgery, whether chemo or hormonal therapy.

  • WC3
    WC3 Member Posts: 1,540
    edited August 2019

    santabarbarian:

    They wouldn't give me Ketorolac due to the bleeding risk but they gave me dexamethasone which can also reduce the chance of metastasis.

    But I was having a BMX and my platelets were still a bit low. Maybe for a lumpectomy they would have been ok with giving it to me.

  • Beesie
    Beesie Member Posts: 12,240
    edited August 2019

    Yes, what WC3 said.

    Perhaps the most simple and clear answer to the question of whether a 'lumpectomy promotes the spreading of cancer cells' is:

    "Possibly, but precautions are taken prior to surgery, during surgery and after surgery to minimize this risk".

    The fact is that most distant recurrences occur without there first being a local recurrence, which means that the movement of breast cancer cells into the body took place prior to the surgery.

    The fact is that local recurrence rates have dropped significantly over the past 20-25 years, thanks to better surgical precautions, radiation treatment and endocrine therapy. A recent meta-analysis puts 5-year local recurrence rates at under 5% for all but triple negative breast cancer.

    The fact is that breast cancer mortality has been declining steadily since the mid-90s, tied to better surgical techniques, and the use of endocrine therapy, Herceptin and other drugs used to prevent the development of metastatic cancer.

    image

    In saying "The inflammation post- any surgery (LX or MX) can encourage metastasis / spread", I think there is a responsibility to provide all the facts so that those who are newly diagnosed and worried about going into surgery don't think that the surgery might do more harm than good. As WC3 said, "surgery, when possible, is still the most curative treatment for breast cancer".
  • santabarbarian
    santabarbarian Member Posts: 3,085
    edited August 2019

    My point is that if it is at all relevant relevant to future metastases how the surgery is handled and what anesthetics are used, then clearly something about surgery must be a possible trigger (or not, if handled correctly). If all migration happened prior to surgery, or if post surgery inflammation was not a possible driver of metastases, then ketorolac would not make a difference. But it does...


  • ShetlandPony
    ShetlandPony Member Posts: 4,924
    edited September 2019

    Yes, it has been know for years that a clock is set at surgery, so to speak. Bottom line is still that one’s chances are better with surgery to remove an early stage breast tumor than without. Beyond that, use an anti-inflammatory med and minimize delays to systemic treatment, in my opinion.

  • Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Member Posts: 609
    edited September 2019

    It's funny ... I was in the surgery room, I had my eyes closed and the internal anesthetist was giving me oxygen before anesthesia... then showed up the chief of anesthesia and began discussing this issue with the anesthetist who was holding my mask... He thought I was asleep! What a reassuring talk to listen 2 minutes before surgery ... LOL

  • ShetlandPony
    ShetlandPony Member Posts: 4,924
    edited September 2019

    What were they saying, Yndorian?

  • Eigna
    Eigna Member Posts: 438
    edited September 2019

    Yeah I was going to ask the same thing.

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