Diets, exercise & stage 4 survival

Anonymous · July 2019

42young · July 2019

Hi all, i'm a newbie here who started this journey only six months ago.

I always wonder how lifestyle changes (diets & exercise) affect our survival?

I had hard time after diagnosis & lost 16 lbs, so my doctor wanted me to maintain my weight. Now, after my first scan which shows improvement, it's time for me to focus on diets & exercise to buy me some more times. I was 100lbs before diagnosis & now i'm 90lbs & wanted to maintain this weight.

I would appreciate if you can chime in with comments & advice especially on the topic of Carbs & meat. Eliminating carbs & meat will improve survival for stage 4?

Thanks in advance

Anonymous · July 2019

Exercise is associated with improved survival and may even help us tolerate treatment better. Even conventional medicine advocates this, I believe there are studies that support it. American Cancer Society has specific guidelines for physical activity for patients

Less evidence for dietary changes, but I have chosen to go low carb, dirty keto at times and practice intermittent fasting.

I don't think there is evidence for improved survival with low carb or vegan eating. There is at least one researcher who says fasting may help cancer survivors. That's the doctor who came up with Prolon.

If you're trying to maintain weight but want to do intermittent fasting, you would make sure to get your needed calories during your eating window. The benefit comes from giving the body a prolonged rest period from digestion not from the calorie reduction

42young · July 2019

Thanks Olma. I have been trying to walk couple miles a day & some light yoga. The hardest thing for me is to eliminate carbs while still able to maintain healthy weight. My MO doesn't want me to loose anymore weight since i'm already close to under-weight mark.

Anotherone · July 2019

www.canceractive.com

It will give you hours and hours of reading. Everything I found vit by bit online I have found altogether on that site after.

Carbs may be tricky at start but if you can eat grains (polenta , buckwheat , brown rice, oats , rye etc) it should be doable.

Can we eat grains in ketogenic diet ? Do not forget there are as well healthy protein powders ( hemp for example - no taste) and all kind of seed mixes which are very high in calories that could be added to food/drinks/smoothies

Mind , there were a few members on here that seemed as proactive and healthy as one could be and they have died so there is no sure recipe to follow ..

42young · July 2019

I don't eat between 7pm - 10am the next day. I hope this is counted as intermittent fasting? Or may be i should go longer?

42young · July 2019

Thanks Anotherone. I will check out that site.

Anonymous · July 2019

That's 14 hours, that is a pretty good window. Some people up it to 16 and some go more drastic. My feeling is I do what is comfortable, make my best effort but not make myself suffer.

Keto diet would not allow grains, and even fruit because of the sugar -- and they even severely limit vegetables which is why my keto is dirty or "sloppy". I cannot agree with limiting vegetables. But because my goal is weight loss with a very slow metabolism, limiting fruit to small servings of mostly berries is working for me.

Normal low carb would probably allow some whole grains.

And I do "cheat" with rice crackers if I have nausea (like during radiation for example) and I ate ginger candy with sugar during chemo...but I eliminate sugar and grains when I feel well enough.

Good fats will help you put on and maintain weight! That's how to do it if you go low carb. Avocados, coconut fats, olive oil in salads or cooking, dairy if you are not vegan.... I'm eating meat but I do uncured grass fed bacon, grass fed beef, free range chicken if I can get it. And fish.

And, I always think of these things as "complementary" therapy, not a replacement for conventional treatment. Whatever I can do to make my treatment work BETTER, or keep my body and my immune system up, I will do.

Cure-ious · July 2019

42young, your are doing the right thing, when you eat is as important, or actually more important, than what you eat! Time-restricted feeding leads to far better control of blood sugar and cholesterol levels, and is likely to be very beneficial, not necessarily for hormonal therapy, but when taking PI3K and AKT inhibitors.. You can take in far more calories without weight gain during a day, so long as you have a sufficiently long (12-14h) period of fasting to burn it off, this really works

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/24/well/when-we-ea...

DivineMrsM · July 2019

One of the best books on cancer and diet is Anticancer by David Servan-Schreiber, M.D., Ph.D. (He was diagnosed with a brain tumor.)

I think its great to eat good food, but I’m not one to believe a strict diet is the answer. I’m not sure what is. And I say this because I am 8+ years with mbc and I do not diet. I eat carbs. And I have to eat meat or I literally am starving. I eat desserts. I’m not much for alcohol but I will have the occasional margarita. I did up my veggies and fruit intake, added more nuts, try to keep the salt intake down.

My advice is if it makes you feel proactive in dealing with mbc, by all means, adjust your diet, but there is no need to take it to extremes. Eat those carbs if your body needs them and it does because you are walking. Don’t deprive yourself! If you want that bowl of yummy-yummy, have it. Smaller portions are a good way to eat a variety of foods you love and not feel guity.

42young · July 2019

Thanks again Olma. I fully understand it's only a complimentary therapy.

Cure-rious, thanks for the article. I'm glad that you mentioned Pik3 because i do have that mutation. This will be helpful for me down the road.

DivineMrsM, Thanks for your comments. I do agree with you that "no need to take it to extremes" at stage 4. I won't be so stricky on my diets, just wanted to cut down carbs because for being Asian, carbs is big part of my diets.

Hope to hear more from others on this topic!!

Nkb · July 2019

42- some of the problems with diet and disease advice is that almost all the studies are done with retroactive food questionnaires. Also- there is disagreement- some people say eat lots of flax seeds, I was told that flax seeds are estrogenic. And interfere with the hormonal meds. I have been in a breast cancer and diet study for 7 years and the questionnaires are long and incredibly tedious and asking me what I ate 6 -18 months ago.

Anyway- I do the 12-14 hour overnight fast. I limit alcohol and super sweet desserts, I don’t eat much red meat, lots of fish and chicken, veggies and tons of fruit Esp berries. I Limit whole milk, eat lots of yogurt and nuts. I rarely eat pasta, rice or potatoes and restrict bread. ( that is hard) I do yoga, exercise bike and walk 3-4 miles per day. I am on afinitor and my blood sugar is fine.

I think it is hard to maintain your weight on a keto diet and some people get high triglycerides on it.

42young · July 2019

Nkb, thanks for sharing. I know there are inconsistent info out there about foods & cancer. I used to eat a lot of soy products, but not sure if i should eliminate it now since i'm ER positive?

Anonymous · July 2019

I chose to eliminate soy and flax (as much as possible). I did read somewhere that soy protein isolate, which is found in protein shakes and processed foods, is really the "worst" and the most suspect in terms of possible hormonal effects from soy. I used to drink protein shakes every morning and soy protein isolate was on the label, so I cut those out. There definitely is conflicting info on these foods but I feel like eliminating them is erring on the side of caution. If any soy is "safe" or beneficial it is going to be a pure, minimally processed soy food.

If you have access to a nutritionist at your treatment facility, consider scheduling a consultation if you can! I got some helpful tips from mine.

B-A-P · July 2019

Hi Olma and 42Young ,

Just pasting some notes my Certified Holistic cancer practioner has sent me on Soy. This can also be applied to Flax. They have been demonized but there's lots of studies to show it's actually beneficial to BC.

"Soy products

There's a lot of misinformation out there regarding soy products. Specifically for Estrogen Receptors Postive cancers. Isoflavoids and lignans, which are phytoestrogens found in soy products are feared because the thought is that they would bind to estrogen receptors in the body. There are two types of estrogen receptors in the body and the alpha receptors are the ones that are overexpressed but phytoestrogen bind to beta receptors. They have an anti-cancer effect and can even help the efficacy of chemotherapies such as Tamoxifen.

Latest study by NCI on soy and breast cancer including over 6000 patients from the US and Canada states that there's a 21% decrease in the risk of death by women with the highest soy intake vs those with the lowest soy intake. Always buy organic and non-GMO and none of the high processed stuff. "

Hopefully that helps

42young · July 2019

Thanks Olma & BAP. I only consume plain tofu to substitute the protein from meat which i'm trying to eat less. Great to hear it has anti-cancer effect.

NicoleRod · August 2019

Olma why not just get a protein powder that has no soy. An all veggie protein powder. When I use one I use Orgain.

https://www.amazon.com/Orgain-Organic-Protein-Powd...=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=ANJUVZV53M2I&keywords=orgain%2Borganic%2Bprotein%2Bpowder&qid=1564775665&s=gateway&sprefix=orgain%2Caps%2C135&sr=8-1-spons&th=1

It is soy free and it was developed by a doctor that had cancer. I suggest using a blender to mix it because plant based protein powders can be gritty but with the blender its great. It's organic, Gluten Free, Soy Free, Vegan and Non GMO and they have it in a 3lb. one at costco.

Anonymous · August 2019

good idea, thanks Nicole! Will definitely check that out. I love putting the chocolate protein shake in the blender with a little decaf coffee and coconut milk and lots of ice.

NicoleRod · August 2019

Olma:

Olma I mentioned to youabout ORGAIN Plant based protein powder...well don't get it now...ughhh its always something...

https://detoxproject.org/reports/

This really stinks because I LOVED THIS STUFF and what really bothers me is that I cannot find anything showing the company addressed this issue!!!

Diets, exercise & stage 4 survival

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