Spirituality Outside Of Organized Religion
Comments
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DearLife, I'm learning that the absence of female symbolism shows imbalance of the Divine.
“Symbol and image create a universal spiritual language. It's the language the soul understands. And yet...the image, language, and metaphor of God as male has been used so exclusively, for so long (about five thousand years) that most people seem to believe God really is male. When only one image is allowed...it becomes idolatrous. It comes to be viewed not as symbol, but as fact, as an actual description."
I had not heard of Iris, goddess of the rainbow! Such beautiful imagery. I recently found out there is a goddess of the labyrinth and I am interested in learning more about her. I seek out and walk labyrinths, and interestingly, the first time I ever heard of and walked one was as I was recovering from chemo and surgery from breast cancer. The simple act of walking the labyrinth felt soooo healing, and I'm beginning to understand even more why it felt that way.
Another goddess that I want to learn about is Nike. She is goddess of Victory and used as a symbol for the Olympics. I came across a picture of a statue of her that really speaks to me:

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I don't believe God is male or female. It is my belief that God is simply love energy, which is everywhere, always. We have the choice of tapping into that energy, or not. But we will all eventually be drawn to it if we want to achieve true happiness and fulfillment (and we all do want that, no matter how far we stray from it). I could say much more about my spiritual beliefs, but I'll leave it there for now. Thanks for the thread Divine!
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pupmom, I would love to hear more of your thoughts about spirituality! You may very well be right, that God does not take on the characteristincs of either male or female. I do think many see God that way, and in some ways, I believe that, too. I guess my perspective comes from all the imagery of God as the “big guy in the sky" and “God the Father", etc, and needing to balance that out for myself.
Speaking of God as the “big guy in the sky", on the other hand, we give female characteristics to the earth in referring to “Mother Nature". Is that not where many of us feel a connection to the spirit, when we are in nature? And these two different images of the spiritual make me think of the expression of wanting to have “roots and wings", or wanting to give our children “roots and wings", a sense of groundedness as well as the ability to soar.
I've always been drawn to the yin-yang symbol in Chinese philosophy, which I believe is said to represent the dark and the light, the masculine and feminine. [In writing this all out rather than leaving my thoughts in my head, it makes me realize I associate balance with spirituality.]
Last year, I actually even considered using this yin yang symbol as my avatar:

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Divine, I think humans simply cannot comprehend the complexity of what exists beyond our physical realm. So, of course, we use the symbolism we are used to as a tool for understanding the unknown.
I was raised Methodist, but was rarely taken to church. I know my mom felt guilty about that, but my dad wouldn't go, and she didn't like attending alone. I never heard any of the hell and brimstone stuff, but never could reconcile how a loving God, which I was taught s/he is, could allow horrible things to happen to completely innocent people and animals. So I struggled for many years trying to find my spiritual path.
After a traumatic divorce in my 30's, I became introduced to A Course in Miracles (ACIM), and have been a student of that system ever since. The philosophy is very similar to Buddhism.
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Hello everyone, I'm interested in thoughts on why we're attracted to beauty and the different definitions that may be out there
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Pup, interesting to hear what your background is in terms of being raised with religion. I think I may have heard of the Course in Miracles, it sounds intriguing.
Do you (or anyone reading) watch the sitcom “The Good Place". I watch, not because it’s about heaven and hell, but because its cleverly written and entertaining. It has a formula similar to Parks and Rec (which I loved) where it is a continuing storyline each week. Last night, one character, Janet, who looks like a person but is sort of a robot but not really, and has answers to everything in the universe....is asked by Eleanor, the main character, “what is the answer to life?”
Janet answers ,”The more human I become, the less things make sense. But that's part of the fun, right? . . . If there were an answer I could give you to how the universe works, it wouldn't be special. It would just be machinery, fulfilling its cosmic design. It would just be a big, dumb food processor. But since nothing seems to make sense, when you find something or someone that does, it's euphoria.” It was a sweet answer that gives pause for thought!
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Jo, wow, so many forms of beauty! I think it is that which resonates within our soul, speaks to us on several or many levels, not just on the surface, it calls to something within us. A person can be physically beautiful, or they can have a beautiful soul. There is natural beauty, found in nature, and man/woman-made beauty of all kinds: writing, music, architecture and so many other kinds of creative ways to make beauty.
What reasons do you think we are attracted to beauty? How do you define it?
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I haven't heard of that sitcom, but think I should check it out!
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pup, if you have Netflix, I think it has the first two seasons of The Good Place. It's cute with a funny sense of humor and some philosophical nuggets tossed in here and there for good measure!
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Thanks Divine! We do have Netflix. I'll check Good Place out.
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Aside from any imagery and symbols representing the characteristics of of a higher power, I envision the god/goddess of heaven and earth in the form of light. Now this could be a tunnel of light beaming into our atmosphere from elsewhere, or it could be light that is illuminated all around us. There are many positive expressions about light: I saw the light, step into the light, let your light shine, etc. It is a different type of visual than a statue or painting.
I also associate a Higher Being as having higher intelligence, and for some reason, this is very important to me.
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If one wants a higher power then it is gravity. It is everywhere, not well understood and is the cause of the formation of matter.
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Divine, I completely agree about light. Light is the opposite of darkness, and is universally associated with spiritual joy. During my meditations I always visualize light around me, and when I'm concerned about someone or something I visualize light around the problem.
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pupmom, I like your idea of visualizing light around a problem, so I’ll try using the same technique!
ananda, life is more than matter to me. It is emotions and relationships. It is experiences. It is our own personal development and how our own intellect is developed and what we do with it. And what we join with others to do. There is intellectual intelligence, and there is emotional intelligence. People like to refer to God as holy; my thoughts are that God is about the whole. It is the whole person, mind/body/spirit, and connecting with others on these different levels.
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DivineMrsM, I understand and appreciate your view of things through the whole person. You described it beautifully.
I think of myself as a phenomenon of the universe just as supernovas are phenomena of the universe. While I think of myself as this phenomenon, I also realize that there is no unchanging me.
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It's true that light is universally positive (except when you're trying to sleep!) and it is a kind of superpower.
To me, higher intelligence is more than a supreme being. It is a force of nature we don't fully understand. I am thinking of what philosophers call “the deep problem of consciousness." What is the difference between a robot and a human? Mainly our inner life, our consciousness, which science cannot fully explain. Why did we evolve to have a unique inner awareness, and what happens to that power when our body closes down?
I think it is possible that we will gradually discover that consciousness works on another plane. Like gravity or light. Or maybe it is beyond our human brainpower to comprehend it.
Meanwhile, I will try lighting up my problems! ⚡️⚡️
Thanks to all for the thought provoking comments.
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DearLife, The problem with the hard problem of consciousness is no one has a clear definition of what consciousness is. I don't want to tie up the thread, but can bacteria be conscious? I didn't used to think so but quorum sensing of bacteria has changed my mind. Just Google it if you're interested.
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ananda, I started this thread to find some common ground with others who believe in spirituality outside of organized religious teaching. It's not meant to be a thread where posters must defend their point of view. It's not meant for posters to challenge someone else's point of view or ridicule it. We believe. It doesn't have to make sense to anyone else. I'd like this to be a safe place to share our thoughts on the subject. DearLife has every right to reply to your post, but I feel the need to defend her here.
I'm not on this forum to get into spats. But please, if you believe in spirituality, share your thoughts. If not, but you really truly want to question what someone believes, perhaps you could send them a PM.
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I go back and forth and back and forth. I have had some experiences that I have no answers for. Ones that have come from other people but had answers only certain people would know. Some answers came from prayer, and it may be just a coincidence the way it happened. But I have no explanation for the answer I had gotten. So yes I wrestle with faith everyday. I wrestled with why me ? Why good people get hurt by disease and the bad criminals spend lifetime hurting others and living to the ripe old age of 100! I have no answers only questions. I honestly wish I knew ......whenever I go under anesthesia, there just seems to be nothing at all. Which makes me think that's all there is.
Glad to see you're doing well Divine! We missed you!
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Thanks Divine. I don't mind a debate if it's respectful. And I think Ananda may be agreeing with me.
There is a school of thought that postulates that consciousness exists in everything, yes, even in bacteria but at a lower level. The logic is that how else could it evolve in humans? It is called panpsychism. Perhaps that is what you are referring to Ananda. More info here:
And a podcast about this which I listened to last week:
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/panpsychism-and-the-nature-of-consciousness-1.4822151
Excerpt:
“Consciousness has been a preoccupation with philosophers for centuries: is it simply a byproduct of our complex brains? Or is it, as a growing number of neuroscientists and other researchers believe, a fundamental part of the physical universe, like space and time? (Pixabay)“
I am adding my own perspective when I am suggesting that consciousness may persist. So that is the spiritual component, or maybe that will prove to be hard science too.
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DearLife,
You understood my intention is to agree with you and offer more support towards the investigation of consciousness being pervasive. Another source you may find interesting is the book "The Hidden Life of Trees". It talks about fungus being a communication conduit between trees. I am happy to have someone who knows about the hard problem of consciousness.
DivineMrsM,
I don't know how you could have misinterpreted my post to DearLife as being challenging or argumentative.
I was hoping it was a thread where I could contribute to discussions of self, consciousness, brain vs mind. I felt that my years of studying and practicing Theravada Buddhism would have a place to describe how neuroscience and a 2500 year old philosophy have a great deal in common. I previously posted two definitions of spiritual; one based on a belief in a soul and another based on a profound level of experience or communion with another. I have had profound experiences through meditation but don't believe that these experienced came from somewhere outside my self. If this thread is restricted to only those who believe in a soul as a discrete self that exists beyond death, then I really have nothing to say. I will withdraw.
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I appreciate Divine MrsM starting this thread and everyone's contributions. It is inevitable that there will be misunderstandings when discussing such sensitive topics in brief posts. Sometimes our spiritual beliefs are all we have to keep us going.
I don't know if the soul is discrete or not but I didn't assume it was a required belief for this thread.
The reason many of us are exploring these questions is because we have had to face our own mortality. We are sisters in our search and I hope we can continue the discussion with tolerance and kindness.
Micmel, it's good to see you here! Like you, my beliefs shift and change.
❤️
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ananda, if you are looking for a place to the discuss self, consciousness and brain vs mind, you could always start a thread and connect with others interested in exploring those themes and hearing about your studying and practicing Theravada Buddhism and the commonalities it shares with neuroscience.
As you say, DearLife, I, too, hope the discussions here can continue with tolerance and kindness. Misunderstandings do occur with the written word.
DearLife, you put into words what many of us ask: Why did we evolve to have a unique inner awareness, and what happens to that power when our body closes down? We grapple with the question. Thank you for the explanation of panpsychism and the links provided on the topic.
Mortality took on a different perspective when I was diagnosed with metastatic bc. I recently came across something I'd written a year into the diagnosis and I was saying, “do I have a year to live? Five years?"
Now I'm 8+ years into the diagnosis and have experienced the passing of many, many women on this forum from metastatic bc, some diagnosed before me and some after. I don't feel any survivor's guilt that I continue to have a stable diagnosis. Their deaths, tho,are one reason my mortality is so obvious to me. The diagnosis forced me to leave my complacent little religion and seek something else, not knowing what.
Micmel, I've had some experiences in my life that are unexplainable as well. It is the synchronization of unusual and/or unrelated events that come together and seem to have a life of their own. A surrealness to them. They weren't created or manufactured by me, but affected my life and my life's direction. They aren't common. I consider them spiritual occurances. But does that imply life after death? I cannot say.
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I have had many unexplained spiritual experiences, but one really stands out.
About 30 years ago, my maternal aunt suffered a recurrence of colon cancer. This time it was metastatic. Anyway, I hadn't heard much for a few months about how she was doing (she lived in a different state, and mainly talked with my mother).
But one morning I was in my kitchen and felt a presence near my front door. I looked in that direction and knew it was her, although I couldn't see her. She communicated through telepathy that she had come to say goodbye. Later that day my mom told me she had passed that morning, about the time I felt her near me.
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Pupmom, thank you for sharing that powerful moment. Jo
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You're welcome Joe. I'm sure many here have had similar experiences.
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ananda I love your posts and contributions!! I don’t really know what happened back there but I for one have not read your words as argumentative and I have found your insights to be incredibly spiritual!!
I too have studied Buddhism as well as Daosim and have meditated and done movement meditation and internal Qi cultivating practices for many years. I feel like you and I are on the same page!
Maybe we should start a separate thread where we can discuss these things? I will go ahead and start one and hopefully you will join me there love
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I have since I've been on this forum. Back in the fall I suggested to one of the women on a thread that one of her purposes(and we all have more purpose than we understand) may simply be to hold a door open for someone who is struggling with that simple task for the rest of the world.
My husband took me to a fall craft show not far from our home. I had been so sick that I hadn't gone many places but doctors and hospitals. A friend called me that morning and told me about the show so I grabbed my cane and we took off before I changed my mind.
When we got there I passed the main building that had quilt exhibits and I decided I'd skip that and save my steps even though my aunts were world class hand quilters. After roving through outside booths and two buildings of beautiful crafts I told my husband I needed to go. We left out of the building through the back entrance after visiting with a neighbor on my street with breast cancer that I hadn't spoken to in two years. We got to the side entrance of the quilt exhibit that had a ramp so I told my husband we'd walk through the building here to the other side and I'd peak through the doors at the quilts then head for the car just outside that door.
When I opened the door an elderly woman older than my 69 years, stooped over and struggling with her walker was standing right in front of me.I stepped aside for her. She looked up into my face with a glowing smile and said thank you. The oxygen was sucked out of the room and I heard my own words, I cry every time I see her face. I could write another page of the people and events that day that brought us together,but it is far more than coincidence or synchronicity.
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Jo, WOW!
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I'm enjoying all of the posts and truthfully forget the original intent of threads most times. I think many threads or conversations in real life veer off track into other areas of thought and this expands my views. I am grateful for that.
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