Why don't all breast cancer patients get chemotherapy?

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Anonymous
Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376

Maybe someone can help me understand this question I've had.

Chemotherapy targets cells that grow and divide quickly, as cancer cells do. Unlike radiation or surgery, which target specific areas, chemo can work throughout your body.


If chemo works throughout the body, why doesn't every breast cancer patient get it. My oncologist told me that hormone therapy only works for certain types of breast cancer.

Comments

  • NancyHB
    NancyHB Member Posts: 1,512
    edited January 2019

    It's a complicated answer, but in a nutshell, because not all cancer needs chemo. The benefit must outweigh the risk of long-term, permanent and sometimes debilitating side effects. Chemo works best on fast-growing cancers (grade 3 and some grade 2, not necessarily grade 1). In some instances our own immune systems can also kill stray cancer cells, as well.

    And chemo is no guarantee of non-recurrence, which feeds back into the benefit/risk calculation. This is why Oncotype and Mammaprint have become such vital tools in our treatments plans.

    ETA: for those of us who are TN, chemo is the choice of treatment as we’re unable to use hormone therapy

  • MCBaker
    MCBaker Member Posts: 1,555
    edited January 2019

    as well as those who are er/pr negative but her2+. I was told that the taxol alerts the body of the dangerous cancer, then the herceptin paralyzes it while the body attacks whatever might be left. No options for anti-hormonal pills. Taxol and herceptin are both iv only at this time.

  • NancyHB
    NancyHB Member Posts: 1,512
    edited January 2019

    Thanks for adding that important info, MCBaker - my apologies for missing that population. I always under-type (and forget stuff) when on my phone..

  • SpecialK
    SpecialK Member Posts: 16,486
    edited January 2019

    Determining which patients derive the most benefit from chemotherapy has been the goal of genomic testing. OncotypeDx, and some other less used genomic tests like Pam50, help do this for ER+ patients, by looking at tumor material and coming up with a recurrence score that indicates which individuals will be helped by adding chemotherapy to anti-hormonal therapy - which is also systemic and works throughout the whole body. Chemo works less well on those who are strongly ER+ and those patients may actually get more bang for their buck from anti-hormonal therapy such as Tamoxifen or one of the three aromatase inhibitors - Femara (letrozole), Arimidex (anastrazole), or Aromasin (exemestane). There are also some other genomic tests such as Mammaprint - which can be used for ER- patients also, but certain arrangements of hormonal receptors and Her2 status almost always require chemo and/or targeted therapy due to their aggressiveness, so for those patients the genomic tests are not used as often.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited January 2019

    Thank you, Nancy and Mary, for the excellent, easy-to-understand information. Makes sense now that you explain it.

    Do oncologists assess the long-term, permanent and sometimes debilitating side effects of chemo. Can a person tell in advance what they might experience?

    As you can tell, I'm quite ignorant about all this despite my frequent researching breast cancer topics. I don't need chemo for my cancer but my sister does. She's triple negative. She has her second surgery tomorrow (incision-I think it's a second lumpectomy in the same breast to get more of the margins). She starts chemo at the end of the month if all goes as planned. She has suffered from arthritis for most of her adult life. She is also a good deal overweight.

    I worry! A lot! We live 3000 miles from each other. My daughter is flying out to help her during chemo.


  • SpecialK
    SpecialK Member Posts: 16,486
    edited January 2019

    viewfinder - do you know what chemo regimen your sister is having? It seems that triple negatives either go with Adriamycin/Cytoxan/Taxol which is typically given in two different ways - dose dense Adriamycin and Cytoxan - 4 doses given two weeks apart from each other, then four dose dense Taxol, or the four dose dense AC, then Taxol weekly. Some patients do better with the weekly Taxol because they are smaller doses. AC can cause some more nausea than other regimens, but your sister's oncologist will watch closely and she will be given anti-nausea meds intravenously prior to administration of the chemo, and then she should be given more to take at home afterward. I would advise preventing nausea rather than trying to treat it once it happens. Finding the right meds to take at home can sometimes be trial and error. Let your sister know that she should report all side effects to her oncologist. I had a triple neg friend, who also had weight issues, and she did this regimen and did fine. She is single so I went with her to all of her infusions. She did require additional fluids the day after infusion with some additional steroid and this really helped her. Your sister's oncology center should offer her this if needed. If Adriamycin is to be given I would advise that your sister have an echocardiogram to assess heart health prior to starting, this is a risk factor with this drug, particularly if she is older. The other regimen some triple negs have is Taxotere/Carboplatin, given in doses 21 days apart. The addition of Carboplatin has more recently found to be helpful for triple negatives, but your sister's oncologist will hopefully make a recommendation for which regimen based on her clinical presentation. Some oncologists even add Carboplatin to the Taxol portion of the ACT regimen mentioned above in my post. I don't think determining in advance whether one might experience a specific side effect can be known - I have seen young and fit people suffer and older folks do just fine. I sat next to a lady when I was getting chemo who was in her late 70's. She had fallen shortly after her lumpectomy in a restaurant doorway and broken her hip - except for a time-out in surgery/rehab to fix the hip - she was getting chemo and was chipper and tolerating it without incident. She was an inspiration! Absent a specific co-morbidity that would prohibit a particular regimen - such as pre-existing heart disease and Adriamycin - it is a wait and see. Your sister will be closely followed by her oncologist for years following chemo, usually with appointments at 3 month intervals for the first year or two, then stretched out to 6 month intervals, and then to 1 year intervals. The good news for triple negatives is that after the 5 year point it is unusual to have a recurrence. That is nice of your daughter to go and help, I am sure she will be a comfort to your sister and you will be happy to know she is there with her.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited January 2019

    SpecialK, thanks so very much for the helpful information!!

    I have no idea what chemicals they are giving her but she sent me her chemo schedule this morning. She's been very busy and her second surgery is tomorrow, so I don't want to push her for more info at this time. I think she's in good hands with her oncology team at Virginia Mason in the state of Washington.

    She did tell me that she chose all day rather than driving two hours each day. The traffic in her area can be grueling.

    image

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited January 2019

    For me it was the difference in being HER2+. My first diagnosis in my right breast was ER+, PR+, HER2-. With that diagnosis I wouldn't need chemo and could have a lumpectomy. Then I had an MRI to make sure we weren't missing anything. It detected a mass in my left breast. I had an MRI biopsy. It came back ER+, PR+, HER2+. With that diagnosis I was going to need chemo. It was the difference of being HER2+ that changed everything.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited January 2019

    Oceanbum, Thank you!

    I see you had chemo in 2017. I hope that went well for you. I'm unfamiliar with Targeted Therapy. Is that a part of Chemotherapy?

    What a complicated disease and treatment options.


  • BellasMomToo
    BellasMomToo Member Posts: 305
    edited January 2019

    Only "invasive" BCs, like IDC, may need chemo. "Non-invasive" BCs, like DCIS, don't need chemo cause they are non-invasive -- it doesn't spread beyond the breast. But it is a type of BC. At least, this is how I understand the difference.

    Hopefully someone else can provide a better explanation.

  • MCBaker
    MCBaker Member Posts: 1,555
    edited January 2019

    herceptin is targeted at the HER2 receptors on the surface of HER2+ cancer cells. Same as anti-hormonal pills for er/pr+ tumors that feed off of female hormones.

    My understanding is that chemotherapy strictly applies to toxins that are administered on the principle that cancer cells in general are more vulnerable to poisins, vascular insufficiency and even heat and cold.

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