Do young women overestimate/amplify their own personal risk?

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kanji1
kanji1 Member Posts: 9
edited October 2018 in Not Diagnosed But Worried

Because I have anxiety and because my surgeon has recommended a watch & wait approach to a suspected fibroadenoma, I frequent these boards time to time. Specifically the, "Not Diagnosed but Worried" section.


All too often I see women in their late teens-mid twenties posting on here concerned they have not just breast cancer, but rare forms such as IBC or Paget's disease. This is no doubt caused by a growing number of younger people Googling their symptoms and succumbing to what some people call "Cyberchondria." I'm sad to admit that I am/was one of those people, especially when I first discovered my lump. I am 23 years old, and will be 24 in the beginning of next year and have personally never met, seen, or heard of any woman getting breast cancer in my age group, aside from rare stories on the internet. I have read statistics stating 93% of breast cancers happen in those 40 or older, and heard from my own surgeon that what I have has less than a 5% chance of being cancer. I have to ask, even with all of these readily available statistics, why is the deep seeded and very REAL feeling fear still present for so many women (myself included)? Just how common is this disease in the 20/30 year age group?

Comments

  • djmammo
    djmammo Member Posts: 2,939
    edited October 2018
  • gb2115
    gb2115 Member Posts: 1,894
    edited October 2018

    I think one of the problems is that people tend to believe what they read on the internet. So if you read symptoms of breast cancer and it fits what you have (even though 10 other benign medical problems also fit) it's easy to believe you have it, without the critical thinking skills that a doctor develops during their many years of training. I think some people are wired to automatically assume the worst case scenario. I have a tendency to do that, and probably would have been someone googling symptoms and expecting breast cancer. Unfortunately I had it. But luckily (I guess??) I never noticed the lump, and then my doctor found it on a routine exam. So I went from everything being peachy to the rug being pulled out from under my feet in less than 48 hours. So I was able to skip the googling.

    But yeah, cyberchondria. There's also a tendency I think in younger generations to go to the internet for absolutely everything. So it's second nature to jump on the internet for every little problem, rather than see a medical professional with the skills to properly diagnose. I see this in telehealth too. Skipping seeing a doctor in person because it's easier to do it online. But can they really diagnose without a proper physical exam? I don't know. Maybe inadequate insurance plays a role too, I don't know. Good discussion.

  • kanji1
    kanji1 Member Posts: 9
    edited October 2018

    DJmammo- interesting graph, I suppose the problem lies in the fact that the bars for 20-39 aren't at absolutely zero. I was never good at math or reading statistics, but the 20-29 age group collectively reads less than 1,000 cases per year give or take.


    The anxiety (hypochondria/cyberchondria) stems from the thought of, "what if I'm in that X amount?" Rather than looking at the broader picture of say, the 95% chance you DO NOT have something, you look at the 5% chance that you DO.


    gb2115 - thank you for your reply. Regarding insurance, yes I do think that's a major factor. There are a lot of young men and women who are uninsured and will have to pay out of pocket for exams and imaging. I'm one of them, luckily my visits to the surgeon are less than $300 a visit, so it's manageable. I know some people who can not afford it, though. Biopsies and surgeries probably cost a hell of a lot more than that. I know plenty of my friends who have not been to the doctor in 1-2 years simply because they can't afford it. So they turn to Google or WebMD to self diagnose. Even though those sites are full of it. I googled sneezing one time and it said I may have a sinus tumor or a chronic respiratory infection. Just goes to show you those sites aren't a replacement for actual medical checkups.

  • djmammo
    djmammo Member Posts: 2,939
    edited October 2018

    kanji1

    In 30 years of practice I believe I only saw 2 or 3 pts in their late 20's and they had DCIS.


  • futura
    futura Member Posts: 23
    edited October 2018

    this is US I'm guessing?

  • Tmh0921
    Tmh0921 Member Posts: 714
    edited October 2018

    Please visit youngsurvival.org, and look at the survival stories and ages.

    I was diagnosed when I was 27, with invasive ducal carcinoma. I know of another woman where I work who was diagnosed with invasive ductal carcinoma at age 24. It can, and does happen. And unfortunately, because of age and being dismissed because of the “you're too young for breast cancer" mindset, many young women experience a delay in diagnosis which leads to poorer prognosis.

    Age shouldn't be a determining factor in whether or not a woman or a medical professional takes a breast lump seriously.


  • kanji1
    kanji1 Member Posts: 9
    edited October 2018

    Futura


    If you're asking about the chart djmammo posted, I believe that's either statistics from the US or the UK.

  • WC3
    WC3 Member Posts: 1,540
    edited October 2018

    djmammo:

    That chart is for overall cancer incident, not breast cancer, correct?

  • kanji1
    kanji1 Member Posts: 9
    edited October 2018

    WC3:

    That chart seems to be for overall or another cancer. Although I do think the incident rate for younger people still provides relevant information.

  • WC3
    WC3 Member Posts: 1,540
    edited October 2018

    kanji1:

    I was diagnosed at 38, found the lump when I was 36 (radiologist at imaging facility misdiagnosed it as benign) and it may have developed sometime between 31 and 34.

    I have read that less than 5% of breast cancer are diagnosed in women under 40, but the key word here is diagnosed. Those diagnosed in their very early 40s likely had breast cancer in their late 30s.

    If you put my prediagnostic information in to the breast cancer risk calculator on cancer.gov, it will tell you that my 5 year risk is 0.4% and my lifetime risk is 11.3% but due to my family history and other factors, in my head I put my odds of developing breast cancer at 50% due to my family history.

    I think that calculator on cancer.gov has too many short comings to be used as an official predictive tool...the imaging/biopsy facility I went to used it or a similar calculator and decided to print my 0.4% 5 year risk and 11.3% lifetime risk on the same reports that essentially said I had breast cancer. I guessed they figured I could use a laugh.

    The lump that turned out to be cancer wasn't a lump I could feel for a long time. It was new and was in my upper outer quadrant which had previously had no palpable lumps.

    What tests have they done on the lump that worries you?


  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited October 2018

    When I found El Lumpo, I got it checked out and everything, but I leaned to the side of “the stats are overwhelmingly against this being cancer.” I was 28 at the time, my risk based on age was .05%.

    I read a quote once, not about cancer but about HIV transmitted in a rare way: “Someone has to make up the small numbers.” Unfortunately, that turned out to be me.

    I didn’t put off getting the lump checked out nor was I ignored by my doctors. I still ended up originally Stage lllc which quickly turned to Stage IV. If there had been significant delays, I could’ve ended up being rushed to the ER on my deathbed.

    So yeah, young women probably overestimate their risk. But what’s worse, a few weeks of additional stress or missing something deadly??

  • djmammo
    djmammo Member Posts: 2,939
    edited October 2018

    WC3

    I've replaced that graph with a better one.

  • djmammo
    djmammo Member Posts: 2,939
    edited October 2018

    The following is just my personal opinion on this topic

    ======

    If you are a radiologist that reads all modalities, mammography is only one small part of one's day or week. These are the requirements: "the interpreting physician shall have interpreted or multi-read at least 960 mammographic examinations during the 24 months immediately preceding the date of the facility's annual MQSA inspection"

    This comes out to just under 10 mammograms per week and likely fewer diagnostic cases. If breast imaging is all you do, you may read as many as 100 screening exams before lunch each day and read diagnostic studies and perform biopsies all afternoon. Its a question of commitment and how much of your brain is allocated to breast cancer and breast imaging. Most radiologists I have worked with would be very happy if they never saw another mammogram in their entire career. The liability is higher than other modalities and its not as easy to read as other modalities given the variation of the appearance of each patient's breast and the variability in the appearance of each cancer.

    The difference is one radiologist would say to a 20 year old "At your age I don't think you have breast cancer" and send them home whereas the other would say to the same patient "At your age I don't think you have breast cancer" followed by a mammogram, an ultrasound and a biopsy.

    Given that my speciality is 100% visual, I have a hard time accepting that clinicians can make a decision like this on physical exam alone, without wanting to "look inside".

  • Swedish_Girl
    Swedish_Girl Member Posts: 13
    edited October 2018

    The doctor that examined my lump thought it was benign and I had to wait a month to do mammogram, ultrasound and biopsy. He should have made my case a priority instead of thinking I'm too young. I really hope someone told him that he made a mistake. If there is a lump or anything else weird it should be checked. No matter what age the patient is.

  • WC3
    WC3 Member Posts: 1,540
    edited October 2018

    djmammo:

    I can see how a cyst might have a distinct feel, but I agree that lumps should be imaged and/or biopsied before they are called benign or not.

    My imaging was done at a breast center so I thought if my breasts were too dense to properly read the mammogram, they would tell me but they didn't.

  • djmammo
    djmammo Member Posts: 2,939
    edited October 2018

    WC3

    A benign cyst can be tense and feel very hard like IDC or it can be fairly soft like a colloid carcinoma. Lobular carcinoma can often feel like fibrocystic tissue. I trust the US more than my physical exam and I hold a Level III Certificate in Clinical Breast Examination from the NCoBC.

    As far as density is concerned it is a requirement for us to include the patient's density in every mammo report and in the required lay letter that is mailed to every patient explaining their mammo findings. Every report I have ever seen also includes the disclaimer that dense breast tissue can obscure small abnormalities. Some states have instituted laws requiring the listing of options for further evaluation of dense breasts and other states require their insurance companies to pay for any additional imaging required to evaluate dense breasts even in the absence of a lump.

  • kanji1
    kanji1 Member Posts: 9
    edited October 2018

    I don't have much to add other than the replies have been very informative and, although anecdotal, I don't feel as though I've been ignored or dismissed by my concerns throughout this whole process (starting last September).


    Agree with everybody else of course that a breast exam alone isn't enough to ever make a surefire diagnosis. Not sure why any doctor would be comfortable doing that.

  • WC3
    WC3 Member Posts: 1,540
    edited October 2018

    djmammo:

    I didn't receive a letter the first time, only the second time. I really wish they would have recommended an MRI or biopsy the first time and I'm not sure why they didn't, given the density of my breasts, family history, that it was a new lump and in my left breast, upper outer quadrant, where I had no other palpable lumps.

    They just told me it was normal breast tissue. I asked if I should have it rechecked in 6 months or a year and I was told no, not unless I noticed any changes, but by the time changes were apparent to me it was almost 3cm. It had been growing more towards the inside of my breast than the outside, and downwards in to a denser region which had always been lumpy so I really only noticed a difference when it got big enough to buldge on the outer side.


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