Proton radiation therapy?

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scrv
scrv Member Posts: 16

I had a lumpectomy on Jan 3. I will be having radiation therapy in a couple weeks. I am one of the lucky left breast ladies. I also have one node positive so they are telling me that I should do all the nodes around the breastbone etc. where I am being treated they can offer me proton radiation rather than typical X-ray radiation. I have been trying to research thisespecially for node treatment. Not a lot out there cause it's fairly new for breast cancer use. Doesanyone have any experience with this or know anything about it? It seems like it could be a good choice for me. It's alll so hard to figure out whats best :(.

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  • Amelia01
    Amelia01 Member Posts: 266
    edited February 2018

    I don't have any personal experience but have been investigated the pros and cons of proton therapy vs conventional radiation. From what I've read, proton is so zone specific that it will target a pinpointed area as opposed to conventional radiation which can be likened to shooting in the dark with an automatic weapon and hoping to hit something. Because you still have your lymph nodes, proton seems like the best solution for you (only my opinion!). I wouldn't know how to answer if you had the lymph nodes removed (my case). If I get any medical answers (asking my MO about it); I'll share them with you.

  • Tewks
    Tewks Member Posts: 105
    edited February 2018

    Good afternoon ladies! I just started Proton radiation last week, and I'm curious to hear from others who may be going through it also. It's not the most comfortable hour of my day, that's for sure, but I had one treatment that caused so much shoulder pain that I was crying by the time I was finished.

    Is traditional radiation similar in that you're basically motionless for 40-60 minutes? I know Proton is supposedly safer and more accurate, especially for those of us with left breast issues, but is this daily physical discomfort really worth it??

    Anxious to hear what anyone else has experienced. Thanks

  • Lexica
    Lexica Member Posts: 259
    edited February 2018

    Hi, Tewks, I'm doing traditional xray therapy and am typically on the table no more than 20 minutes. Sometimes it's longer, but thats usually because they have to make an adjustment. Is it that long every time? Did they say the sessions might get shorter/more efficient once you're further into treatment?

  • OCDAmy
    OCDAmy Member Posts: 873
    edited February 2018

    I had IMRT on left breast and was in the room for about 10 minutes max. They made a mold that I laid in each time so it was easier to line up. IMRT is good for left breast and does not require breath hold. I didn't realize proton lasted that long. How many treatments do you get total?

  • Tewks
    Tewks Member Posts: 105
    edited February 2018

    I'll try to answer all of you at once. After having a nightmare experience with chemo (and cancelling it), I was very skeptical about radiation. After surgery and reconstruction last June I was told I was cancer free but both chemo and radiation were highly recommended as preventive measures, so I followed the advice and took the plunge...against my better "gut feeling" judgement. Chemo did not go well at all, we took a break mid-A/C then cancelled completely after one Taxol. So going into 6 weeks of radiation was not real high on my list of winter activities, especially consodering the possible heart/lung damage down the road. It was only by chance that I learned about Proton therapy from, of all places, a television commercial. And yes, it is very zone-specific and that alleviates my fears about the side effects.

    I have 27 total treatments, each lasts about 40-45 minutes. I've had only four so far and the radiation itself is painless but what's almost intolerable is lying in one position totally immobilized for such a long time. I'm doubling my Xanax and gabapentin and have added naproxen in hopes that either my shoulder joint is less inflamed or that I'm so zonked out I don't know the difference. No one has said the time might get shorter, maybe I'll get lucky and that'll happen.

    I am lying in a mold made for my body and haven't yet been told to hold my breath...except perhaps to alleviate my anxiety 😉. My husband keeps telling me I have his permission to quit, no questions asked, should I ever feel the need to bail out. So for me it's one day/one treatment at a time, no longterm commitment and that makes it easier.

    I'm just curious to hear from anyone else who's done this for breast cancer. I shudder to think what this must be like for the prostate cancer patients, it must be so much more uncomfortable and that's one of the many thoughts that keeps me going. That and the little kids...cannot imagine.

    So, I doubt this has helped anyone else but thanks for the time and space to whine. This whole ordeal really sucks...


  • CA1943
    CA1943 Member Posts: 13
    edited February 2018

    I just finished my proton 33 treatments on 1/23/18.  It is approved by Medicare now, not sure about commercial insurances as Proton is typically not used for breast cancer. It is still a better choice however as it is precise, and not "going through tissue" like regular radiation beams... I still have had some cardio issues during and after treatment...SO, I can just imagine what regular radiation does to the body!

  • CA1943
    CA1943 Member Posts: 13
    edited February 2018

    Yes indeed the entire scenario sucks... Radiation was not fun laying in that mold in a weird position during thoser 33 treatments! But since I have refused chemo, and debating on taking Femara, what other choice did I have to beat that beast??? Time will tell the story and with God on my side, I might just make it! lol!  

  • scrv
    scrv Member Posts: 16
    edited February 2018

    hello everyone thank you so much for all the responses. I started the protons last week. So far so good I guess. I am not being put in any molds except a mold for my head that they strap to the table. I do have to have my arms above my head and they measure and line up the tattoos they gave me. I have wondered how they can be sure I am totally lined up. My arms have felt ok so far. I have a couple questions for you.

    CA1943: if it's ok to ask what kind of cardio issues are you having? Are they from treatment? I have been very worried about that all. My primary wants me to have an echocardiogram for a murmur she can hear. I have had them before and other docs said it was nothing but she is my new doc and I really like her an trust her and she doesn't trust the other docs opinion. But right now they have me wrapped up with mepital to decrease skin side effects. It's a clear dressing that looks like cellophane. They don't want to get it all gooped up with the stuff they use for that test. How did your skin end up at the end and what did you use for it?

    OCDAmy: how is IMRT different from other x-Ray ? They made me feel that protons was my best choice though it can be harder on your skin and they don't have a lot of studies on it. I have wondered about IMRT and why you wouldn't have to do the breath hold thing. ?

    Most of my treatments have been shorter about a half hour. I think maybe the reason it can take longer is sometimes they have to wait for the beam itself. I know where I am they share it with other four treatment rooms and everyone has to wait their turn. They are only giving me twenty five treatments vs the six weeks it seems most other people are getting. Not that I want more but makes me a bit nervous

    God bless you

  • ShetlandPony
    ShetlandPony Member Posts: 4,924
    edited February 2018

    Tewks, maybe getting physical therapy for your shoulder will help you to be more comfortable. Do you have frozen shoulder since surgery?

  • OCDAmy
    OCDAmy Member Posts: 873
    edited February 2018

    Here is some information abut IMRT:
    Intensity-modulated radiation therapy, or IMRT, is a type of cancer treatment that uses advanced computer programs to calculate and deliver radiation directly to cancer cells from different angles. It allows people with cancer to receive higher, more effective doses of radiation while limiting damage to the healthy tissues and organs around it. This increases your chance for a cure and lessens the likelihood of side effects.

    IMRT allows the radiation dose to conform more precisely to the three-dimensional shape of the tumor by changing — modulating — the radiation beam into multiple smaller beams. This enables a higher dose of radiation to be delivered to the tumor while sparing healthy tissue around it. To deliver these smaller beams, the machine forms the radiation into varying shapes throughout the course of treatment.

    Recently, considerable efforts have been made to minimize cardiac toxicity of left-sided breast irradiation by new treatment methods such as deep-inspiration breath-hold (DIBH) and new radiation techniques, particularly intensity modulated radiotherapy (IMRT) and volumetric modulated arc therapy (VMAT).

  • Tewks
    Tewks Member Posts: 105
    edited February 2018

    I just now re-found this thread, couldn't find it anywhere! Whew!!

    I'm now done with 12 put of 27 treatments, most taking up to 40 minutes on the table but I think that's just waiting for an available beam. My skin is turning pink, I have a slight rash and it's starting to itch a little. My RO advised more aquaphor and a prescription cortisone cream if I need it. The techs are super nice about the time, almost apologetic that we don't get in and out instantly. I'm thinking I'm very lucky to live where I do and have access to such great medical facilities

    Shoulder update: it's not my shoulder joint at all, it's the muscle that cramps. It's happened three times and I'm controlling that with naproxen, Motrin, and Xanax. And I must tell you all that I realized two days ago that im actually meditating my way through the treatments, much like the self-hypnosis of Lamaze. The techs are playing some great stuff on Pandora and I'm really surprised at how easily I can zone out what's happening with treatment and concentrate only on the music, just by training my mind. 40 minutes has never flown by so fast...

    All I can say is that I hope this all works...I have zero patience for cancer, I don't have time for it, either in my day or my week or my life and there's zero room in my body for it anywhere. So it had better take a hike,and fast, cuz I'm done with it!

    Please everyone keep in touch, good luck, we can do this!

  • JenRuns
    JenRuns Member Posts: 350
    edited February 2018

    I just finished proton therapy yesterday... 25 proton treatments and 5 boosts to my incision on the regular machine.

    I found the treatment to be longer (I was on the table, immobile for 20 to 30 minutes).

    But, so worth it.

    My skin got a little pink week 2, mostly folliculitis. I didn’t experience any difficult skin issues until the very end, and even with that, it’s minimal compared to what others have seen with traditional radiation therapy. The techs in the “regular” area kept saying how amazing my skin looked, and I’m oh so grateful for that

  • Tewks
    Tewks Member Posts: 105
    edited February 2018

    congratulations!! What do you mean by boosts to your incision? New info to me... thanks

  • JenRuns
    JenRuns Member Posts: 350
    edited February 2018

    I had a bmx... my RO did five treatments to my incision line, which is underneath my breast. The beam depth was very very shallow - just the scar tissue. He said cancer cells can hide in the scar tissue, and protons aren’t set up for the super shallow treatment.


  • Amelia01
    Amelia01 Member Posts: 266
    edited February 2018

    JenRuns - I noted you had your nodes out and are doing proton. Were they all out? How did Dr explain that the proton would work were nodes were removed?

  • JenRuns
    JenRuns Member Posts: 350
    edited February 2018

    I had 16 removed. They radiated under my arm and my neck ... a friend on another board posted this photo, which I think helps show the area. image

  • ArielR
    ArielR Member Posts: 1
    edited March 2018

    Hi Ladies, I will be starting Radiation in a few weeks and I've already had consultations with 2 different ROs where we discussed the standard radiation treatment. However, today I happened to hear about proton therapy from someone in my local cancer support group . In my research today (I've been at my computer for literally 10 hours straight), I see a lot about the benefits of proton therapy particularly for women who have left side tumors as it helps to protect the heart and lung. I was wondering about right side tumors but I don't see much about it. I am being treated for a right side tumor and my thinking is that while the heart is on the left and one of the lungs is on the left, the 'other lung' is on the right side - so won't proton therapy be beneficial for me to help protect the right lung? Would love to hear your thoughts / info on this. Thanks

  • Tewks
    Tewks Member Posts: 105
    edited March 2018

    Ariel, I'm in NJ and halfway through proton radiation. I stumbled onto it when I saw the TV ad and got a ringing endorsement from my team at Fox Chase. Ask your doctors for their opinion, they can best guide you. But it seems to me that it's a less invasive and less damaging form of treatment. My tumor was on my left side so my heart and left lung are a concern. I don't know much about traditional radiation so can't compare the treatment processes to each other. I can only say I trust ProCure and feel totally safe there.

    It's not easy to stay totally still for 45 minutes but I'm learning to meditate during the treatment, and the time flies by. The nurses, technicians and my RO are super nice, warm people with great patience and all have a terrific bedside manner.

    I had a tougher time starting out but have learned how to cope better mentally. The more I read and hear about proton the happier I am with my choice.

    In one of my earlier posts I talked about a shoulder issue and it’s turned out that was a cramped muscle. I upped my magnesium supplement and haven’t had a problem with it since.

    My only problem now is my skin reaction...my new boob looks like it's sunburned and there's an itchy rash. But I have a prescription cream and lots of sympathy, plus they've all assured me it will heal nicely and disappear once treatment is complete.

    This is turning out to be much easier than I first thought it would be.Good luck with your decision and if there's anything else I can tell you please ask!!


  • JenRuns
    JenRuns Member Posts: 350
    edited March 2018

    ArielR, my understanding is that proton is only considered for left-sided breast because of the heart, with the lungs being a bonus. (The risk of heart damage is well documented ... lung, I think, is rarer.)

    Many centers use active breathing control for protecting the lungs during traditional radiation therapy

  • Tewks
    Tewks Member Posts: 105
    edited March 2018

    hi jenruns, I’m halfway through proton radiation right now and will ask me RO tomorrow evening when I see him. Even though only my left breast was affected I have to say this is the first time I’ve ever heard this.

    I’ll try and clear it up and let you all know. I. Also have to say it’s turning out to be a breeze

  • Amelia01
    Amelia01 Member Posts: 266
    edited March 2018

    Do any of the proton group have tissue expanders? I was asked for a clinical trial and not sure if it excludes me or not.


  • JenRuns
    JenRuns Member Posts: 350
    edited March 2018

    I had to do my exchange surgery to do protons... my RO said they can't shoot the beam at the angles they do for regular radiation therapy, so they can't get around the metal that was in the expander with protons (the part where they inject the fills).

    I finished chemo, had the exchange surgery three weeks later, then started protons three weeks after that.

  • Tewks
    Tewks Member Posts: 105
    edited March 2018

    SCRV and everyone else, can anyone tell me the implications of skipping the last three treatments? And why do we have differing numbers of treatments, e.g., 24, 25, 27? What's the difference between them? I've had 24 of 27 and have taken a three day break because of severe burns, along with bad weather. I don't want to go back to finish up but rather I want to skip the last two treatments and am curious to know if anyone else has done this, cut short the treatments. Yes, I could ask the RO, andof course he's pushing me to finish (Easy for him to say), but the center is closed today because of a snow storm so I can't.
    My MO says it's up to the RO, But I just plain don't feel like frying my skin anymore. I have terrible blisters and can't describe how painful it is. Even oxycodone didn't help.
    Thanks all!

  • JenRuns
    JenRuns Member Posts: 350
    edited March 2018

    the number of treatments is based on the dose (gys) they’re giving you. There’s usually a total number (something like 64 gys) that they shoot for for the whole treatment. It’s then broken up... 2.13 gys for 30 treatments, for example

  • Tewks
    Tewks Member Posts: 105
    edited March 2018

    JenRunsThank you! I saw a covering doc tonight but you’ve just given me a clearer answer than anyone. That really does explain it in a way my feeble chemo brain can comprehend. This guy was very sympathetic, told me to take the rest of the week off and go back next week for the last three. We’ll see how much more I heal over the weekend.
    He also told me I’m not taking enough meds to ward off pain which is another reason I’m still so miserable. Just my luck.
    Bottom line in case anyone else asks: yes, the last three are very important, especially for my kind of tumor that had slightly broken through the skin.
    As far as right vs left boob, everyone needs to be evaluated independently. There’s no set answer that applies to everyone. CYA sis alive and well in the world of medicine...
    ‘Night all. Sleep well and thanks for the support!!




  • JenRuns
    JenRuns Member Posts: 350
    edited March 2018

    hang in there tewks....

  • Tewks
    Tewks Member Posts: 105
    edited March 2018

    Jen thank you! Per the ROs instructions I took oxycodone plus Motrin yesterday and it did help the pain a lot. Problem was that I had really bad itching so I got nervous about that, thinking it might be an allergic reaction, so I haven't taken it since and today the Motrin plus gabapentin is working just fine.

    I had lunch yesterday with my oldest daughter, today my son is here cooking rib eye steaks as I write this, my youngest daughter is coming tomorrow, so...pain and/or itching be damned, my kids are sticking around so all isright with my world.

  • Tewks
    Tewks Member Posts: 105
    edited March 2018

    I stayed with it and ended Proton therapy last night. ''Twas a memorable evening for all...I was the last appointment of the day, 9:45 pm, and wouldn't you know, the x-ray equipment broke in my first treatment room so we had to move to another. Then in the second room the computers got all funky and needed extra attention. So, but the time they'd finished the last lasers it was midnight!
    Virtually everyone in the building was waiting to leave so I got the biggest send off ever, and it was lovely.
    I'm going to enjoy my free evenings for a few days but I must say, what a weird feeling to have gone through so much and know I'm now flying solo...no drs!...for awhile.
    Hang in there everyone, and thank you all for being so nice during this part of my journey. Best of luck to everyone!

  • JenRuns
    JenRuns Member Posts: 350
    edited March 2018

    congrats Tewks! Enjoy the free time!

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