Will 30% of Early Stage (1-IIIA) go on to metastasize??

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  • JuniperCat
    JuniperCat Member Posts: 658
    edited December 2017
  • Lovinggrouches
    Lovinggrouches Member Posts: 530
    edited December 2017

    If I remember correctly, I sent info on family tree of breast cancer relatives, filled out a survey or two, sent a copy of genetic results and did sputum specimen

  • marijen
    marijen Member Posts: 3,731
    edited December 2017

    SABCS 2017: Circulating tumour cells may predict late recurrence in HR-positive breast cancer patients

    08 Dec 2017

    Among patients with hormone receptor (HR)-positive HER2-negative stage 2-3 breast cancer without clinical evidence of recurrence, those who had circulating tumor cells (CTC) detected in blood five years after diagnosis had an increased risk for late recurrence of breast cancer, according to data presented at the 2017 San Antonio Breast Cancer Symposium, held Dec. 5–9.

    "We found that a single positive CTC assay result five years after diagnosis provides independent prognostic information for late recurrence," said Joseph A. Sparano, MD, associate director for clinical research, Montefiore Einstein Center for Cancer Care, Albert Einstein Cancer Center, New York. "This provides proof of concept that liquid biopsy-based biomarkers may be used to stratify risk for late recurrence and possibly inform treatment or clinical trial options."

    Despite advances in breast cancer treatment in recent years, many women still have late recurrent disease five years or more after the initial diagnosis. HR-positive breast cancers, which make up more than half of all breast cancer cases, have an increased risk of late recurrence, noted Sparano.

    "Biomarkers for late recurrence that may help guide therapy are needed," he stressed.

    Participants of Sparano's study were previously enrolled in a clinical trial which assessed the addition of bevacizumab, a vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF) inhibitor, to chemotherapy as adjuvant treatment following surgery.

    Sparano and colleagues measured CTCs in blood samples from patients using the CELLSEARCH CTC assay between 4.5 and 7.5 years after an initial diagnosis of HER2-negative stage 2-3 breast cancer.

    No patients had clinical evidence of recurrence at the time of enrollment.

    Of patients with HR-positive breast cancer, 4.5 percent had recurrence of the disease; this compares to a recurrence rate of 0.5 percent in the HR-negative group.

    Of the 546 patients enrolled in the study, 4.8 percent had a positive CTC assay result.

    Among patients with HR-positive breast cancer, 5.1 percent had a positive CTC result; among those with HR-negative disease, 4.3 percent had a positive CTC result. After a median follow-up of 1.6 years, a positive CTC assay result was associated with a nearly 20-fold increased risk of breast cancer recurrence in patients with HR-positive disease.

    The positive predictive value of a positive CTC assay for recurrence by two years in patients with HR-positive disease was 35 percent, and the negative predictive value for patients in this cohort was 98 percent.

    A positive CTC assay was not associated with recurrence in the HR-negative group.

    Sparano commented that these results were somewhat unexpected.

    "We were surprised to see that 5 percent of patients had CTCs about five or more years after their initial diagnosis," he said. "Although we were expecting that CTC-positive patients would have a higher recurrence rate, we weren't expecting the risk of recurrence to be this high after a relatively short period of time."

    "This study provides strong evidence of the clinical validity of the CTC assay as a prognostic biomarker for late recurrence in HR-positive breast cancer, which accounts for about one-half of all recurrences," Sparano said. "Utilizing the CTC assay for prognostic analysis may aid in a more accurate identification of patients who would most benefit from extended adjuvant endocrine therapy or other treatment options," he noted.

    Next steps include studying how a single negative CTC test or serial negative tests could serve as a negative predictive marker that may allow sparing of extended adjuvant endocrine therapy beyond five or more years. Limitations of the study include short follow-up after the CTC assay, with an average time of 1.6 years.

    Sparano noted that additional follow-up is required, and that further study will be necessary to determine the clinical utility of the CTC assay in this setting.

    Watch the press conference for more.

    Source: SABCS

  • ThinkingPositive
    ThinkingPositive Member Posts: 834
    edited December 2017

    thanks for the info. I will look into this study.

  • marijen
    marijen Member Posts: 3,731
    edited January 2018

    017.

    ER-positive breast cancer patients with more than three positive nodes or grade 3 tumors are at high risk of late recurrence after 5-year adjuvant endocrine therapy.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29042797


  • wintersocks
    wintersocks Member Posts: 922
    edited January 2018

    This study echoes what i have been told. I am now heading into year 6 since diagnosis.

  • marijen
    marijen Member Posts: 3,731
    edited January 2018

    Here’s the cancer statistics 2018.I don’t know where to put it so I’ll put it here.


    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.3322/caac.21...


  • farmerlucy
    farmerlucy Member Posts: 3,985
    edited January 2018

    Wow marijen - That is quite a report. Thanks so much for posting. Sobering. Numbers were higher than what I thought. Ugh. Carpe Diem.


  • ThinkingPositive
    ThinkingPositive Member Posts: 834
    edited January 2018

    marijen...about you post on recurrence after 5 years on endocrine therapy. That means that it should be 10 years for those of us that fall into that category. I assume that’s me. 1 node positive. Grade 3. And my MO said the further out I get from diagnosis the less likely!!!

  • TWills
    TWills Member Posts: 679
    edited January 2018

    ThinkingPositive, that's what my MO said for me as well. 1 node Grade 3. Because of the grade 3 it is most likely to show up in the first 5 maybe 10 years and then go down over time. I was turning 45 around my diagnosis and although she said she could never say cured or all clear she did say that if I hadn't had a reoccurance by 65ish I would "most likely" be clear. Who knows what they'll figure out in the mean time. Now I just have to decide on the whole ovary removal thing to slightly up my chances. Ugh 😑


  • HollyDollyD
    HollyDollyD Member Posts: 77
    edited January 2018

    Remember that science has changed. Long term statistical outlooks mean that the original ocurrence and treatment were x years old.

    Have hope and keep fighting.

    My oncologist told me that after being a woman (huh...not changing that), the next greatest risk is being overweight, because fat produces estrogen. I think there's so much we can do with diet and exercise and just healthy living nowdays that can reduce our risk. And they are coming up with new treatments all the time. Maybe in 10 years after a mastectomy, we will have stem cell implants that can regrow healthy breast tissue. A girl can hope, right?

    Hugs,

    Holly

  • NotBrokenJustBent
    NotBrokenJustBent Member Posts: 394
    edited January 2018

    I am just over 4 years on blockers. At my recent MO visit a couple weeks ago I wanted to discuss 5 vs 10 years on blockers but she wouldn't go there and said we have time and science is changing all the time. It was her thought that in the next year more would be known. I really wanted a plan and time to mull things over but also encouraged that research on all of this is ongoing and progressing at a fast pace. Yes Holly, "a girl can hope". She too is unconvinced as to the accuracy of the BCI test at this juncture.

  • ThinkingPositive
    ThinkingPositive Member Posts: 834
    edited January 2018

    TWills.... I had both of mine out plus Fallopian tubes. No big deal as I had already gone through menopause years before being diagnosed at 58. I had a small cyst on one ovary that we were following up on every 6 months. Got tired of that and a few months after finishing chemo I wanted them out. Recovery was no big deal.

  • marijen
    marijen Member Posts: 3,731
    edited January 2018

    5 to 10 sounds like a prison sentence to me, I got out at 2.5 due to eyesight problems. There is more information at How Many Are Doing Aromastase Therapy for 10 Years
    https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/78/topics...

    Holly Dolly, yes hope is in abundance. I am hoping for growing a new lumbar 1.. and for better treatment that doesn’t require depressing our hormones.

    And fighting the weight batlle daily.




  • TWills
    TWills Member Posts: 679
    edited January 2018

    I've just started Tamoxifen two months ago and doing fine so far so I hate to mess with that, seems the newest conference data that my MO went to last month said ovaries out(in my case, pre menopause) with AI's have a slightly better % of reducing reoccurance. It's a small % and I don't want worse side effects so it's a gamble for sure. Side effects are my concern.Again, I say she said this for my case.

  • Traveltext
    Traveltext Member Posts: 2,089
    edited January 2018


    All 61 pages of this interesting, and perennial, topic prove that we are all more or less concerned about recurrence. The stats are one thing, and we certainly all try to rationalize them to suit our own cases, so here is my rationalization.

    No cancer gets the funding and attention that breast cancer gets, so we're lucky that, as people here say all the time, new research is improving our survival rates, lengthening our remission times, and extending our lives if we proceed to Stage IV. Having had aggressive breast and prostate cancers and two strokes (ischemic and hemorrhagic), I've come to the conclusion that I'd rather have the certainty that cancer treatment involves compared to the sudden death or disability that a stroke patient risks. Needless to say, I've sorted out my affairs and either eventuality will not be a burden on loved ones. But, I look at my bc mate Rob, now four years stage IV, after four years stage III, and he's living life very well. I then look at friends badly debilitated by a stroke and think I'd rather be dead than in their situation.

    I think it all boils down to the age of get this disease, your attitude to death, your psychological strength, and your ability to live life in a "new normal" mode. This said, my heart goes out to younger people here. My mom died aged 40 in 1962 (leaving 4 young boys) and her full treatment consisted of a most radical mastectomy and super-high radiation. Pre cemo, pre hormone blockers, pre Stage IV wonder drugs, she lasted two years.

    The latest stats show cancer survival rates are improving, and that's real good news.


  • Anna-33
    Anna-33 Member Posts: 192
    edited January 2018

    I am so scared.... just waiting for messages about distant metastasis... Every detail in my initial diagnosis seems to show that my prognosis is really poor. What to do with my young kids? They are under four. I am crying all day and night...

  • Traveltext
    Traveltext Member Posts: 2,089
    edited January 2018

    Anna-in-Norway, I'm very sorry to hear this. Tell us about your treatment to date, since that's an important component of your prognosis.

    My oncologist says it's un-constructive to have pre-conceived notions about any aspect of this disease, so perhaps you could bear this in mind to help alleviate your concerns.





  • runor
    runor Member Posts: 1,798
    edited January 2018

    Traveltext, I appreciate the practical sincerity of your post. I tell people I fight this disease on two fronts, in my body and in my head. It's like a two headed hydra. (now I have to go listen to that song by Toto, can you tell me where I might find a hydra, is he wearing a familiar face...)

    These are big issues. The biggest, really. At times it is overwhelming.

  • Anna-33
    Anna-33 Member Posts: 192
    edited January 2018

    Mastectomy, 4 x AC and 12 taxol and radiation...

  • marijen
    marijen Member Posts: 3,731
    edited January 2018

    Metabolic shifts in residual breast cancer drive tumor recurrence


    The researchers identified a chemical signature in the way that residual cells metabolized lipids. The altered process contributed to maintaining high levels of reactive oxygen species, which are molecules known to harm DNA. The team believes that this may play a role in triggering a relapse.


    https://www.jci.org/articles/view/89914?key=67eb30...

    Here’s the interpretation


    https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317464.p...


  • Traveltext
    Traveltext Member Posts: 2,089
    edited January 2018

    Anna-in-Norway, that's best-practice treatment. Are you on hormone blockers?


  • Anna-33
    Anna-33 Member Posts: 192
    edited January 2018

    Yes, but they told me antihormones are not effective in progesteronenegative cancer

  • Meow13
    Meow13 Member Posts: 4,859
    edited January 2018

    Anna, I am 95% er positive and less than 1% pr, so pr negative. Hormone therapy, aromatose inhibitors are proving very effective for er positive and pr negative patients.

  • Anna-33
    Anna-33 Member Posts: 192
    edited January 2018

    Thank you for answearing... I am on AI

  • Traveltext
    Traveltext Member Posts: 2,089
    edited January 2018


    Anna, with your treatment, plus AIs, you should not fear metastatic recurrence.


  • Meow13
    Meow13 Member Posts: 4,859
    edited January 2018

    Anna, I agree with traveltext there is no reason to think you will recur. As time goes on you will find the fear subsides.

  • Anna-33
    Anna-33 Member Posts: 192
    edited January 2018

    I hope so.... cause right now tings feel hopeless! Your support helps a lot. (Sorry if my English is not so good). Here in Norway I feel alone by having lymph node involvement and beeing only 32..

  • DATNY
    DATNY Member Posts: 358
    edited January 2018

    Dear Ann, the truth is: you can't predict what will happen to you. But right now you are disease free and should live to the maximum every moment, as much as you are physically able too. Why give cancer more of your life than you are supposed to? And there are many stage 3 women doing well after 15 years, so you shouldn't feel hopeless:

    https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/67/topics...

    The only thing you could do now is to focus on diet, exercise and your spiritual needs, all of which have been shown to help. Not sure how things are done in Norway, but a plant-based diet is now often recommend here. Below is a link from Dana Farber, which is one of the top 3 places to treat cancer in the US. If you search their site, you will find detailed discussion on nutrition:

    http://www.dana-farber.org/health-library/videos/e...

    Regular exercise is one of the most recognized ways to reduce recurrence.

    Finally, studies show that people who regularly meditate or pray fare better.

    I don't go to a major cancer center, because where I live there are none. But even my small treatment place gave me a set of recommendations, which included regular exercise and meditation or pray. Finally, it is also important to have normal levels of vitamin D.

    If none of these help to make you feel better, perhaps you could discuss with your doctor about anti-depressants. And if your doctors can't find a way to help you lift your spirits, perhaps you should look for another one. I have a friend , stage 3 too, who changed oncologists just because the first one put to much emphasis on the negatives.

    Your kids deserve their "fully operational" mom back , and there is nothing at this point to prevent that from happening.

    Hugs!


  • Paco
    Paco Member Posts: 208
    edited January 2018

    Hmm, statistics. There are so many factors involved in breast cancer that it becomes very hard to glean any real truths from these numbers.

    For all stages combined, the 5-year survival for female breast cancer is 90% and on average, 80% of people diagnosed with breast cancer live for 10 years or longer. We might also want to consider that the median and mean age for being diagnosed with breast cancer is 62, so half of women diagnosed are older and half are younger than that number. The average life expectancy of a woman in the United States is 81. So I suppose if you are diagnosed above the age of 62, as half of women diagnosed are, you can live a very full and normal life with a 15- or 20-year survival. My husband's grandmother was diagnosed at the age of 80 and lived to be 88 years old. She would make our survival statistics look bad but leaving this world at 88 sounds pretty good right now.

    I would read the statistics that that many, many women living with a breast cancer diagnosis will actually live long and productive lives.

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