When did tumor shrinkage become evident chemotherapy?

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CareGiverHusband
CareGiverHusband Member Posts: 14

Would appreciate feedback on when tumor shrinkage became evident during chemotherapy? Immediately, halfway, towards the end or NO SHRINKAGE? Specifics would help in regards to type of chemo and tumor size.

My wife started A/C + Taxol chemo in December. Doctor skipped the 4th and final A/C after no evidence in shrinkage via mammogram and ultrasound. She moved on to Taxol and has just completed the 5th infusion of 12. At 3rd infusion, doctor believed there was slight shrinkage by touch. Now after 5th, doctor believes tumor hasn't shrunk more.

As you can imagine, the thought of chemo NOT being effective and melting the tumor is incredibly distressing and her spirits are incredibly low.

Does chemo flat out NOT work in some cases?

Quick info: tumor 5cm, spread to lymph nodes, her2 -, estrogen +. progesterone -, grade 2, Invasive mammary carcinoma with mucinous.

Comments

  • ElaineTherese
    ElaineTherese Member Posts: 3,328
    edited March 2017

    Hi!

    I did neoadjvant chemo as well, AC + T. I was grade 3 and triple positive (ER+/PR+/HER2+). My MO used a ruler to measure my lump during chemo. It shrank during AC, and disappeared during T. A comparison of my pre-chemo MRI and PET scan and my post-chemo MRI and PET scan showed no active cancer. That was confirmed after surgery by my pathology report.

    Different cancers respond differently to chemo. Chemo works best with rapidly dividing cells, so that may be why my grade 3 cells were wiped out. Also, chemo often doesn't work as well for those with high levels of ER+/PR+.

    Ultimately, the only way to determine whether or not chemo shrunk your wife's tumor is to do the surgery and perform the pathology tests. Some have noted that post-chemo lumps often resemble Swiss cheese -- the chemo has eaten away the cancer, but the shell of the cancer hasn't changed much in size.

    It IS depressing to go through chemo and to think that it hasn't had much impact. But, sometimes negative results are still informative. You may, at the very least, have a better idea of what didn't work for your wife's cancer. ((Hugs))

  • NotVeryBrave
    NotVeryBrave Member Posts: 1,287
    edited March 2017

    I noticed tumor shrinkage after the first round, but that was with 2 chemo agents and 2 targeted therapies. They won't repeat the MRI until chemo is one. Even so - that doesn't always show what's going on.

    It's good that they are trying different things, but surgery and post-pathology will show what has really happened.

    Try not to get discouraged. There are still more treatment modalities available to your wife. It's marathon.

  • CareGiverHusband
    CareGiverHusband Member Posts: 14
    edited March 2017

    Thank you ladies!

    ElaineTherese thanks for the specific info regarding swiss cheese casing. Also, so pleased you are doing well and continue to help others by posting your knowledge and experience.

    NotVeryBrave (doubtful) ;), trying not to be discouraged while in the process. Extremely difficult as you know. It is indeed a marathon and I have to remind myself and wife the battle is not always a straight forward path.

    Would appreciate additional experience from others as we fight the good fight! I want to share some real world cases with my wife this evening when I get home from work.


  • obsolete
    obsolete Member Posts: 466
    edited March 2017

    Mr Husband, I'm touched by your compassion and dedication to your wife's breast cancer & chemo.

    I'm currently mobile, but you can click on menu/search/mucinous carcinoma for more info on your wife's BC. Focus on pathology and chemosensitivity.

    Bless your wife's heart.

  • CareGiverHusband
    CareGiverHusband Member Posts: 14
    edited March 2017

    Thanks WeAreConnected! My entire being is dedicated to being the best husband and caregiver. All my time is spent towards her well being and battle.

    I will read through the discussion: "Mucinous Carcinoma of the breast". Thanks for the reminder. I had previously skimmed through it awhile back.

    I am specifically trying to find those who have experienced lack of tumor shrinkage during chemo. If so, did treatment change in the form of another chemo cocktail or hormonal therapy introduced in conjunction or stay the course and wait for surgery results? Or other?

    I know the anxiety of chemotherapy... it's challenging. However, add on NOT witnessing any tumor shrinkage and it's a lot of restless nights and anxiety filled days.

    I feel she has an extremely intelligent and dedicated oncologist but do I become that guy who challenges her plan of treatment and attention to my wife?

    Thanks in advance and I greatly appreciate the people of this forum as a frequent visitor since my wife's diagnosis.

  • Midwest_Laura
    Midwest_Laura Member Posts: 168
    edited March 2017

    Hello, Husband. I had neoadjuvant chemo, dose dense, AC-T. After the first round, my MO said that the the chemo was working. I didn't want to believe him (too good to be true), but after the 2nd round I had to agree. While the tumor didn't necessarily seem smaller in dimension, it was definitely softer. The tumor was originally rock hard. Now, after 4 rounds of AC and 2 rounds of Taxol, the tumor site feels almost like normal breast tissue unless you really squeeze hard and know where the tumor is. I know that the tumor is still there, but the difference in feel is dramatic. Sorry to be blunt, but does your wife's boob feelany different?

  • CareGiverHusband
    CareGiverHusband Member Posts: 14
    edited March 2017

    Thanks for the reply Midwest_Laura! I am happy to read you got early results and shrinkage!

    The tumor is more soft and moveable by my wife and her Oncologist. I guess that is good... combined with possible swiss cheese casing being left behind.

    I don't know... as we go through this I guess we just want more perceivable and dramatic results with 7 Taxol infusions remaining.

    It is indeed a marathon!

  • aterry
    aterry Member Posts: 290
    edited March 2017

    Hello Husband, It's great you're learning as much as you can to help your wife. I had 4 rounds of AC and when an ultrasound was done it showed minimal shrinkage--less than a millimeter. I was pretty discouraged. But at least it didn't grow. My MO said in my case it may be because my tumor has "mystery" tissue around it and that may make it hard to see on the ultrasound what is going on. I will have an MRI next week after the 12th round of Taxol. I'll be posting the results. I read somewhere that complete eradication of the tumor happens in 20% of cases, so while it's a goal, most people achieve only partial shrinkage. One person on this board had insignificant shrinkage but when they did surgery the tumor was "dead". One benefit of doing neoadjuvant chemo is that the MOs can get a sense of what works best in each individual case. I'm in a clinical trial at Mt Sinai, NYC, where a mouse model has been injected with my tumor cells and is getting the same chemo I am. IF* I were to have the bad luck to get a recurrence there would be data that would help guide the chemo second time around. *Knocking on wood and other substances that I never need this.

  • Midwest_Laura
    Midwest_Laura Member Posts: 168
    edited March 2017

    CG Husband: the change in texture should be consider progress. You need to remember that chemo works best on aggressive caners. Your wife's Dx indicates that it highly unlikely that she will shrink the tumor to nothing. My MO said that I only have a 20% chance of the tumor completely disappearing. His goal was to shrink it by 50% with chemo.Your wife may be about the same. For us, it is the hormone therapy that will be the most effective.

    If you are not yet an expert with patience, cancer is ruthless teacher!

  • CareGiverHusband
    CareGiverHusband Member Posts: 14
    edited March 2017

    Ladies... thank you so much!

    I spend so much time reading and educating myself, as well as, talking to survivors (both breast and other cancers).

    I feel fortunate to access additional info thru the internet... well at least most times. It can be very overwhelming. I feel it helps.

    My wife has chemo her 6th Taxol infusion this Friday and her Oncologists always checks in on her while in the chair. I will bombard her with questions.

    I really have to agree with your statement about cancer being a ruthless teacher of patience.

    Thanks again everyone!

  • voraciousreader
    voraciousreader Member Posts: 7,496
    edited March 2017

    check the mucinous thread...i just posted

  • CENOK2017
    CENOK2017 Member Posts: 80
    edited April 2018

    caregIverhusband,

    I know your post is a year old but wanted to tell you my experience. I started TCHP in January 2018and just finished my 4th chemo. My tumor has not shrunk at all either, which is so discouraging. MO has not suggested stopping chemo. She did say, like others here, that the time of surgery will tell whether the chemo worked. It is very depressing especially when we hear of other's tumors shrinking to nothing. I pray things have turned out well for your wife.

  • Patterbelle
    Patterbelle Member Posts: 3
    edited July 2018

    hi just seeing how everyone got on with there tumours not shrinking, my daughter (24) had 2x ac tumour didn't shrink or grow so changed it to tax, tumour looked like it was growing so emergency mastectomy, on removal they found chemo was working, her lump was 5.1 cm .she's now on carboplatin and Paxi taxol weekly only 1 more to go then next step rads

  • Kkmay
    Kkmay Member Posts: 156
    edited February 2019

    Thank you guys for your information!

    I thought that the shrinkage is the only sign of progress. However, what do you mean by the swiss cheese feel?

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