Confusing MRI vs. biopsy results - Help!
Hello everyone,
Mom was diagnosed with DCIS Grade 2, some necrosis, ER+ 100%, PR+ 80%, one month ago. Since then we have seen a breast surgeon, radiation oncologist, and medical oncologist. We paid out of pocket for an outside consult after several health insurance denials.
We've had varying opinions regarding treatment. All agree on lumpectomy but there are differing opinions on radiation treatment.
Within her medical group, we were given these choices for radiation: lumpectomy with or without radiation during surgery, followed by 16 or 28 daily radiation treatments.
The outside consult (a leading surgeon), suggested a one-shot radiation treatment during surgery with no follow-up radiation; a targeted 5-day radiation treatment; or a 3-week course of radiation. The consult surgeon strongly disagreed with the 6-week approach, saying it was unnecessarily long. A radiation oncologist acquaintance noted he is doing 3-week treatments.
To all physicians we inquired about another option: lumpectomy followed by the Oncotype DX test to determine rate of recurrence and need for radiation. If radiation is not immediately necessary, we would then take a watch and wait approach to monitor future growths. Mom has a heart condition and ideally we would not want to subject her to unnecessary radiation. All agreed it was a viable option.
We were about to decide on a course of action and set a surgery date. However, we received the results of the MRI and this has thrown us for a loop.
MRI shows no evidence of a cancer tumor - no mass, no nodal abnormalities, bilateral breast MRI essentially negative. There is some "fuzziness" on the scan located near the biopsy site, which could be due to bleeding or a reaction to the metal clip. The biopsy of course showed evidence of cancer cells. Are they hiding behind that fuzziness?
Mom has had other cancer "scares" before. Her mother, who had a double mastectomy, was always convinced that she never had BC to begin with. Mom is concerned that she may not really have cancer, since no mass/tumor can be identified. She's wondering if there was a mixup of the slides, or if they presented falsely.
The docs still want to do an excisional lumpectomy to see what may be present, even if by chance the biopsy itself removed whatever tumor/cancer was present. Mom is resistant to this and what with her heart condition, we would really prefer not to put her under and endure surgery.
Anyone have a similar experience? MRI showing no mass/tumor, but biopsy slides showing cancer cells? According to the doc, this has happened with other patients before, but another oncology acquaintance thinks it is quite unusual.
We need to move forward with a decision on surgery and are uncertain about whether to proceed at this time. Of course, if there is cancer present, we should remove it. But there is no mass showing on the scan. Should we remove the breast tissue at the site of the biopsy, even without a tumor? Again I am worried about the risks of surgery in general, but also worried about missing cancer cells, even if they are minimal.
Does a lumpectomy seem extreme, given the situation? Is there any alternative to a lumpectomy at this time? We requested a repeat MRI and/or biopsy, but they said it would not help. Is there something equivalent to the CA-125 blood test used to check for ovarian cancer?
We would really appreciate any thoughts/insights as this is really hard for mom. She was having a hard time with acceptance and is now back in the denial camp.
Thank you so much.
Comments
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Hi Tiger, no scan MRI including is 100 percent reliable. I had MRI before surgery and it didn't show anything in lymph nodes, however it turned out I had macro mets in several.
What is the approximate size of the tumor
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How old is your mother? Age makes a difference in the suggested treatment.
No, there is no blood test that will help in this situation.
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If the tumor was small enough, it’s quite possible that the biopsy removed all of the cancer - that’s what happened in my case ... no cancer was found on the lumpectomy. Had I been older, with pure DCIS (I was 45 with a micro-invasion) I could probably have skipped radiation.
The MRI is no powerful enough to detect isolated left-over cells that could then grow back though, so at the minimum a lumpectomy to achieve wider margins would be necessary for your mom. If no further cancer is found, then skipping radiation and further monitoring would certainly be a reasonable choice.
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Hi TigerButterfly:
You can inquire about what procedures and controls are in place to ensure that slides are not mixed up. They should be relatively robust.
Regarding accurate interpretation of the slides, here is a paper which attempted to assess the level of agreement among pathologists:
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2203798
You may wish to obtain an independent pathology review of the slides. My second opinion review was performed by a team and included a review of all imaging, pathology and treatment recommendations.
MRI is not foolproof. The disease on my right was clearly evident by mammography (biopsy showed DCIS), and the extent of disease was confirmed by MRI ("concordant"). But my left side is illustrative of some less common DCIS cases that are not detectable by MRI: The same MRI session that clearly detected disease on the right, located two areas of concern in the left outer quadrant. These were proven to be benign on biopsy and represent two false-positives. No other areas of concern were identified by MRI, a false-negative as mammography showed a subtle area of concern near the mid-line, an excisional biopsy of found DCIS, and later mastectomy revealed over 5 cm of DCIS on the left (majority was grade 2; some grade 3).
Regarding the accuracy of MRI (this paper is cited only for the MRI information):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4286860/pdf/FVVinObGyn-6-210-218.pdf
"Breast MRI has a high sensitivity in the diagnosis of invasive breast cancer, varying from 90% to 100%; the sensitivity for the diagnosis of DCIS is 77-96% (Nadrljanski et al., 2013). The sensitivity of mammography decreases with increasing nuclear grade, whereas that of MRI is improved [with increasing nuclear grade]. In a prospective study mammography missed nearly half of the high-grade lesions (48%) (Kuhl et al., 2007). The fact that MRI detects many DCIS lesions that go unnoticed on mammography implies that some cancers can be prevented by timely intervention on the basis of MRI finding. The disadvantages of MRI are the limited availability and the high cost. For the time being, the primary role of MRI in DCIS is limited to the evaluation of lesion extension and thus the planning of breast-conserving surgery (BCS)."
Thus, it is possible for MRI to fail to detect DCIS, and the sensitivity is decreased with lower nuclear grade lesions. Or as stated elsewhere: "Whereas a high-grade DCIS lesion without enhancement is rare (about 2% of cases), absence of [MRI] enhancement is observed in about 20% of low-grade DCIS lesions."
BarredOwl
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Hello everyone,
Sorry for the delayed reply. Thank you so much for sharing your experiences and insight, and BarredOwl, thanks for the additional information. All of this really helps.
We are seeking a second opinion but will likely go ahead with the lumpectomy, followed by oncotype DX testing to assess the need for radiation. Mom is in her 70s. There seems to be some question re: radiation benefits for the elderly. She also has a heart condition, so I have concerns about anesthesia during surgery, as well as radiation.
The tumor was/is 4mm. Again not sure if it was removed during biopsy, or just not showing on the scan. I understand that a lumpectomy will show us the margins and also whether there is any evidence of invasive cancer cells.
The MRI result is confusing but it is best to see what is there. Just don't want her to go through anything unnecessary. She is my heart and I just want to take all of this away for her.
Thank you again -
TigerButterfly
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Hi TigerButterfly:
Hoping you find the best path forward via the additional review, discussion, and advice from the second opinion.
By the way, if your Mom has a cardiologist (or obtains a referral to one), she can check in with them regarding any proposed surgical procedure, and request that the cardiologist coordinate with the surgical team, if indicated regarding any special concerns. Also, some women here have met in advance with the anesthesiologist to discuss special concerns.
BarredOwl
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Hi BarredOwl,
Thanks again for your reply. We have met with her cardiologist, who gave us instructions regarding her blood thinners. We were not aware we could meet with an anesthesiologist - thanks for mentioning. We did ask the doc about doing partial anesthesia, but that is not an option.
Hope to tie it all together with the second opinion. Insurance (Medicare HMO) has been very challenging and after several appeals and denials we only have authorization for one visit. I will be preparing a list of questions - hope I cover the key ones.
TigerButterfly
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