Radical Remission Book Club by Kelly A. Turner, Ph.D.

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  • txmom
    txmom Member Posts: 306
    edited July 2016

    Just bumping because it's been quite the past couple of weeks.  Maybe everyone is reading.....


  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited July 2016

    Actually I'm rereading! I am failing at happiness. I obsess over everything. Any suggestions?

  • 3-16-2011
    3-16-2011 Member Posts: 559
    edited July 2016

    hi Carol

    One of my favorite things to do when I am stuck in my head is to ask the three questions. What is the worst thing that could happen? What is the best thing that could happen? What is the most likely thing that could happen? It has become a routine to help me stop over thinking. Good luck, I have been thinking of you

    Mary

  • eelder
    eelder Member Posts: 169
    edited July 2016

    3-16-2011.... I love your approach. Those 3 questions are simple yet powerful. Thank you for sharing. I will try this.


  • Longtermsurvivor
    Longtermsurvivor Member Posts: 1,438
    edited July 2016

    HI Carol,

    You write of failing at happiness - the one described and prescribed by Kelly Turner and her radical remitters? Or what you know as your birthright - life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

    I believe it's so important that each person asks about happiness - what brings it, how to sustain it, how to radiate it as light and warmth for others - human and beyond.

    Cancer can push us to discover our unique meaning and purpose.

    I've found that my happiness rests and flourishes upon and within connections - with people, places, memories, ideas, hopes, dreams and working in concert with divine guidance. Happiness is synonymous with love and belonging for me.

    The bucket list, entertainment, consumerism and values of the dominant culture don't bring me any lasting happiness - so I don't nurture those connections in my one "wild and precious life." *

    Woke up thinking of this poem that expresses one woman's happiness so clearly -

    Weathering

    Literally thin-skinned, I suppose, my face
    catches the wind off the snow-line and flushes
    with a flush that will never wholly settle. Well:
    that was a metropolitan vanity,
    wanting to look young for ever, to pass.

    I was never a pre-Raphaelite beauty,
    nor anything but pretty enough to satisfy
    men who need to be seen with passable women.
    But now that I am in love with a place
    which doesn't care how I look, or if I'm happy,

    happy is how I look, and that's all.
    My hair will turn grey in any case,
    my nails chip and flake, my waist thicken,
    and the years work all their usual changes.
    If my face is to be weather-beaten as well

    that's little enough lost, a fair bargain
    for a year among lakes and fells, when simply
    to look out of my window at the high pass
    makes me indifferent to mirrors and to what
    my soul may wear over its new complexion.

    Fleur Adcock, Poems 1960-2000, Bloodaxe Books, 2000.

    Carol, I wish you well on building your own happiness - you've a lifetime of experience to bring to this.

    What would you choose? What chooses you?

    much love, Stephanie


    * The Summer Day


    Who made the world?

    Who made the swan, and the black bear?

    Who made the grasshopper?

    This grasshopper, I mean-

    the one who has flung herself out of the grass,

    the one who is eating sugar out of my hand,

    who is moving her jaws back and forth instead of up and down-

    who is gazing around with her enormous and complicated eyes.

    Now she lifts her pale forearms and thoroughly washes her face.

    Now she snaps her wings open, and floats away.

    I don't know exactly what a prayer is.

    I do know how to pay attention, how to fall down

    into the grass, how to kneel down in the grass,

    how to be idle and blessed, how to stroll through the fields,

    which is what I have been doing all day.

    Tell me, what else should I have done?

    Doesn't everything die at last, and too soon?

    Tell me, what is it you plan to do

    with your one wild and precious life?

    —Mary Oliver

  • Longtermsurvivor
    Longtermsurvivor Member Posts: 1,438
    edited July 2016

    One common prescription for happiness and contentedness is to cultivate gratitude.

    There are a wealth of resources online and in bookstores to help with this.

    I enjoy a daily reminder from www.gratefulness.org

    Today's word for the day:

    No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted.

    AESOP


  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited July 2016

    Steph

    I am not sure where the happiness is that I am lacking. I don't enjoy doing anything, I am so wrapped up in myself- I can't escape and I don't enjoy doing anything it seems. I am worse now than I have ever been. I don't laugh out loud, I don't find reading enjoyable because I can't concentrate.

    Examples: I would like to go out to dinner with my friends. Ok, I am a vegen, so you would think that going and being with the friends for the joy of seeing them would out weigh the misery I have of now being vegan and nothing to order. I became obsessed or neurotic or something. Why am I vegan if I find this such a struggling thing for me? That's easy enough... I am hoping this is helping me with my cancer. I am trapped in my own mind.

    I suffer from low counts on Ibrance. It will be a miracle if I can stay on 2 weeks and then off 2. I am always paranoid of catching something. I got terribly sick twice and really what I am doing is missing out on life.

    The truth is I am very insecure, After an 18 year remission I was clueless this could happen. I feel so unorganized in my mind.

    Thanks, Carol

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited July 2016

    tSteph

    "No act of kindness, no matter how small, is ever wasted." and you accomplished that today by caring about me.

    Hugs

    Carol

  • GG27
    GG27 Member Posts: 2,128
    edited July 2016

    Carol, I'm so sorry that you're going through a tough time right now. You have been so supportive to me, is there anything I can do?

    Can you push yourself to go out for coffee instead of dinner? I struggled with the diet thing (not vegan) but hard to eat out, I finally had to give myself permission to enjoy being out instead of restricting myself so much.

    You have friends here.... ((Hugs)). de

  • Miami33145
    Miami33145 Member Posts: 3
    edited July 2016

    There is much clinical research that shows the positive benefit of supplements for cancer. Highly recommend Cucurmin, Green Tea, Resveratrol, for inflammation. Maybe it was getting on the Letrozole but my bone mets and lung nodules have decreased by 40% over the past 6 months from Letrozole, supplements and Far Infrared therapy done at home with my own FIR pad. Good luck!

    A great book to read that includes the scientific 'why it works' is "Anticancer: A New Way of Life, New Edition" by Dr. David Servan-Schreiber. This is where I started and then I researched further from there on scientific research websites.

  • solfeo
    solfeo Member Posts: 838
    edited July 2016

    In my experience the minute someone told me I need to be happy and stress-free to survive this cancer, it stressed me out even more and made me less happy. I was stressing out about stressing out!

    I have managed to turn it around for the most part. I'll share what has worked for me although no one approach is right for everyone.

    I do guided healing and anti-stress meditations. In my case I choose a non-religious program but there are many that include a higher power in the mix if that is your preference. I also started seeing a psychologist shortly after my diagnosis. I failed at therapy several times early in life, so don't count it out just because you didn't like therapy in the past, or it didn't work. In my case the difference was finding the right person who really gets me. I got really lucky this time. The third thing I have changed is that I make a concerted effort to count my blessings every day. You would be surprised how many good things there are in life to be grateful for, even in the middle of this cancer *bleep* storm. There is not much room left for the negative thoughts when the positive ones are occupying that space in your mind. It takes some time to make this change. You're not going to be good at it on day one, but persistence is key. The final factor that has changed everything for me is exercise. It literally burns off the stress, and if you do it right your brain will undergo some rewiring and your moods will improve. It's also good for the cancer.

    I also follow a very strict diet by choice. It's not vegan but that isn't what is important here. Following my diet, cooking for it, achieving the weight loss I needed to improve my health and odds - all of that makes me very happy because I feel like I'm doing something good for myself. If you feel forced into your diet and hate every minute of it to the point that it is affecting your happiness, then it might not be the right diet for you.

  • Longtermsurvivor
    Longtermsurvivor Member Posts: 1,438
    edited July 2016

    Hi Carol,

    I hope we hear of others' dances with happiness. :)

    Yesterday, I read on another topic that your diagnosis may have expanded based on an imaging exam. Of course the ground feels wobbly under you and you'll hold onto the magic RR formula more tightly.

    I'm reading an excellent book - Krista Tippett's Becoming Wise: An Inquiry into the Mystery and Art of Living

    Here's an excerpt from a recent On Being conversation where she's the guest, rather than the host:

    "There is this great puzzle about life that things go wrong, right? Perfection can be a goal, but it's never a destination. And this has given rise across history to the whole theodicy debate. If there — how could there be a good God, or how could the universe, the balance of the universe be good when there's so much suffering? And so that question is there and it's real, and reasonable.

    "But then there is also this paradox that we are so often made by what would break us. And I think this is where our spiritual traditions, where spiritual life is so redemptive and necessary, because this is the place in life that says — that honors the fact that there's darkness — but also says "And you can find meaning right there," right? Not — it's not overcoming it. It's not beyond it. It's not in spite of it. What goes wrong doesn't have to define us but, I mean, again, to come back to what wisdom is, as I've seen it, it's people who walk through whatever darkness, whatever hardship, whatever imperfection and unexpected catastrophes or the like, the huge and the ordinary losses of any life, who walk through those and integrate them into wholeness on the other side. That you're whole and healed, not fixed. Not in spite of those things, but because of how you have let them be part of you."

    -- Krista Tippett conversation with Pico Iyer http://www.dailygood.org/story/1334/the-mystery-and-art-of-living-on-being/

    Carole, my morning is limited by my own needs, but I want you to know that I read and heard and feel you. You are not alone and we are connected.

    I do trust that your current struggle is part of your growth process and that sometimes muscle breaks down, so it can be built up stronger and anew.

    warmest of healing hugs, Stephanie

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited July 2016

    Steph- Thanks so much for responding to me. I wanted to mention, although, I read Eat Pray Love many years ago- what I remember and if I remembered it correctly I came away with knowing I would never be able to meditate with a bug crawling on my arm. Shows you a little bit of my personality.

    I am building stronger and anew... I have said all along it took 18 years to return so I can kick it away again for 18 more years.

    I hope your day is filled with more happiness then what you to bring to so many- if so... you are overwhelmed with joy.

    Love Carol



  • singlemom1
    singlemom1 Member Posts: 434
    edited July 2016

    Carol, just wanted to let you know that I connected with your post and have similiar feelings often. I find feelings of depression tend to weave in and out with various levels of strength. Sometimes I feel I am doing pretty good and then something on the more minor side happens and I find myself a mess! It seems like I am using all my emotional reserve to handle having this disease on a daily basis and then when a relatively minor but unexpected thing happens I lose it as I don't have any emotional reserve or coping skills left.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited July 2016

    Singelmom, Yes, I think we would not be normal if we didn't find ourselves in a mess at times. The truth is we are not superwomen although I think I am sometimes. The mind is so powerful- at almost 64 years old I am still learning how to use it to my best advantage. A lesson from yesterday for me was I was right about how I was feeling but I worried about something that was already there and what changed from not knowing to knowing? Nothing... The good news is the funk that I was in is lifting. It's up to me how I run this marathon.

    Carol

  • TwoHobbies
    TwoHobbies Member Posts: 2,118
    edited July 2016

    Amen, singlemom. I haven't heard anyone else express that. I used to handle so much and now I can't handle anything hardly at all now. Ironic that people call us "strong" when I fall into a puddle at one more problem.

    Carol, what I have done is try to note what I was doing when I feel happy or good. Do more of that. When my mood has turned downward, what triggered that and stop doing that. Simple right.? I do urge you to go out with friends. Talk about normal, non cancer things. Be the person you are outside of this. Maybe you won't eat perfect but you can get close. I also do some healing meditations from you tube and they do make me feel calmer and more peaceful.

    I haven't read this book but it's a fascinating topic. I had seen her website a year or two ago. I have radically changed my diet. It gives me some sense of control and accomplishment. Working next on the other things on the list!

  • Longtermsurvivor
    Longtermsurvivor Member Posts: 1,438
    edited July 2016

    This is excerpted from a very beautiful bco post by Lulubee...it's stuck with me for three months, because it's such a great teaching:

    I went to see my Chinese Medicine doctor, a man of deep wisdom. He tapped a few dozen acupuncture needles into my body while quietly observing my pulse, my skin, my breathing, my eyes. Before he left me to rest with the needles for a while, he turned on some meditative oriental music and turned off the lights. Then he stood silhouetted by the light in the hallway and quietly said:

    "The cancer will do what the cancer will do. The doctors will do what the doctors will do. God will do what God will do. All that is left for you to do is mind your happiness."

    "Your mind is above your breasts."

    And he closed the door, leaving me to meditate in the dark. His wise words have lifted cares off my spirit time and again for almost a decade now. Maybe they will help others, too.

    All that is left for you to do is mind your happiness.

    https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/8/topics/...


  • solfeo
    solfeo Member Posts: 838
    edited July 2016

    My mom sent me the following quote, which has been attributed to Abraham Lincoln. I don't know if he really said it but it hit home.

    "I have noticed that most people in this world are about as happy as they have made up their minds to be."

    You could look at this as blaming the victim, especially when some of us have legitimately more to be unhappy about than others. But in my experience it just rings true. Overall I am happy - happier than I was before the BC - but stuff happens that drags me down, and as others have mentioned sometimes the breast cancer just piles onto whatever is bothering you. If you're like me you want a permanent pass on other problems in life after having to deal with cancer.

    The one time I let myself get truly down in the dumps - like bedridden with depression - was due to some family problems and feeling sorry for myself on top of the breast cancer. I don't know where it came from but it just suddenly dawned on me that I could stop feeling that way anytime I wanted to. So I vowed to myself to feel better and just got out of bed and did it. That was a first for me, and I have tried to actively make up my mind to feel happy since then. I'm not strong enough to let every problem roll off my back without affecting me at all. Stressful things happen, but I am recovering more quickly than I used to. Another big family thing happened last week, and what usually might have taken me a week or longer to get over, was gone in a weekend.

    This is a tricky discussion because you don't want to make anyone feel badly for being unable to achieve the same level of peace as you have. I also know things could change for me at any time depending on the severity of life's problems, but I put it out there just because it's working for me right now. Sometimes we don't realize what is possible until we witness another person's good results.

    I stubbornly resist thinking of breast cancer as a learning experience, but I can't deny that I'm a better person than I was a year ago, both physically and mentally.

  • TwoHobbies
    TwoHobbies Member Posts: 2,118
    edited July 2016

    LTS that story about being in charge of happiness is a good reminder. When I had my recurrence I was a little upset with myself. I had gotten back to a happy place after the initial cancer. I obliviously walked into the doctor recovered and happy and she found another cancer. I was mad I didn't find it but then I thought I'm glad I had those months of feeling normal and forgetting about it. I would have hated to spend every day worrying and unhappy about cancer.

  • Longtermsurvivor
    Longtermsurvivor Member Posts: 1,438
    edited July 2016

    Interesting press release about dietary changes - successful and unsuccessful approaches:

    Your Diet Plan Isn't Working? New Baylor Research Explains Why

    • Cake Kale Research
    • Successful dieters focus on adding healthy foods – foods that they actually like, according to new research by Meredith David, Ph.D., assistant professor of marketing. (iStock)

    July 11, 2016

    Study shows health-plan successes determined by 'approach' or 'avoidance' strategies

    Media contact: Eric M. Eckert, office: (254) 710-1964, mobile: (254) 652-0398

    Follow Eric on Twitter: @EricBaylorU

    Follow Baylor Media Communications on Twitter: @BaylorUMedia

    WACO, Texas (July 11, 2016) – Many diet plans are doomed from the start.

    The reason? Dieters tend to adopt the wrong strategies, often planning to ditch their favorite foods and replace them with less-desirable options, according to new research from Baylor University's Hankamer School of Business.

    Conversely, successful dieters focus on adding healthy foods – foods that they actually like, said Meredith David, Ph.D., assistant professor of marketing at Baylor. She is the lead author on the study, "Saying 'No' to Cake or 'Yes' to Kale: Approach and Avoidance Strategies in Pursuit of Health Goals," published in the journal Psychology & Marketing.

    "Our research shows that instead of creating rules to avoid one's favorite treats, dieters should focus on eating healthy foods that they enjoy," David said. "Dieters who restrict themselves from consuming the foods they love most may be setting themselves up for failure. Instead, they may be better off by allowing occasional 'treats' and focusing attention on healthy foods that they enjoy and making it a point to include those tasty, but healthy foods in their diet."

    The outcomes of the research – three studies and a total of 542 study participants – hinged on a person's level of self-control.

    "In coming up with plans to enhance one's health and well-being, low self-control individuals tend to set themselves up for a harder pathway to success by focusing on avoiding the very foods they find most tempting," David said. "Our data reveals that individuals who are generally more successful at reaching their goals tend to develop more motivating plans regarding the inclusion of healthy, well-liked items and the exclusion of unhealthy items that are not one's favorites."

    The research found:

    • When asked to list specific rules that individuals might use to guide their food consumption, a large percentage of individuals listed rules that involve restricting and avoiding certain foods. This was particularly the case among low self-control individuals – those who generally have less success in reaching their goals. Individuals who are generally more successful in goal pursuit tended to list rules that involved things they should approach and/or consume.

    • When thinking of unhealthy foods to avoid as a part of a diet, low self-control individuals think of foods that they really like – their favorite snacks, and most tempting items. High self-control individuals think of foods that they like but could reasonably forgo.

    • When thinking of healthy foods to eat as a part of a diet, low self-control individuals think of foods they do not like, such as those that they find highly unpalatable (e.g., Brussels sprouts). High self-control individuals think of foods they enjoy eating (e.g., strawberries).

    "Frequent attention is given to health advice surrounding well-intentioned lists of 'magical' foods that everyone should eat or practically 'poisonous' foods that people should avoid consuming," David said. "The next time you decide to go on a diet or seek to improve your health by altering your food consumption, opt for strategies that focus on including healthy foods in your diet, and focus specifically on those healthy foods that you really enjoy eating."

    Kelly L. Haws, Ph.D., associate professor of marketing at Vanderbilt University, co-authored the study.


  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited July 2016

    Longterm, that makes total sense. The first year post-DX, I cut out various foods, but they were foods that I could live without. Mostly things that I ate out of habit/company, but that I didn't really have a thing for. Then I started adding things back in as occasional foods. 5 years later, this approach is still working for me. I aim to eat veggies as much as possible, but I eat veggies that I really like, prepared in ways that I like. Deprivation is not tenable as a way of life, and especially post-cancer, my goal is to enjoy.

  • Wendy3
    Wendy3 Member Posts: 1,012
    edited July 2016

    Hey Carol finally I found you guys I'm a radical remission junky. I bought the book about a month ago and have been reading it only when I'm down and it helps every time it's like medicine thanks you Kelly Turner. I have so many people telling me it's all hog wash and hype I disagree. I really believe there is a lot we don't know or understand about our bodies and with this book Kelly Turner has stuck her finger into the pie. She has started something great something that gives hope to thousands so yeah.

    Maybe we could discuss what parts of the book we found especially interesting or profound? Just a thought take care ladies love the thread.

    Wendy


  • dlb823
    dlb823 Member Posts: 9,430
    edited July 2016

    Carol, I'm so glad you started this thread! I've always felt I was doing a lot of helpful holistic stuff (along w/conventional), but I finally got a chance today while I was in the car for 4 hrs. to start listening to the the audio version of this book, and after just 4 chapters, I already have several healthy new things I want to do --fasting; hot natural mineral springs (fortunately we have them here in the Palm Springs area, but I never realized they might be good for mbc); possibly keeping a food diary (without being compulsive) to see if what I do or don't eat affects my TMs, and weening myself off honey, which I've always considered a better sweetener because it's natural, but am now questioning after the story about the guy who figured out his TMs went up on agave -- another natural sweetener. I'm also motivated now to sign up for a guided meditation session offered at my ND's clinic. Oh, and I plan to look seriously at some of the healing things offered in Sedona, which is just a few hours from here and known for spiritual and energy healers, etc. Oh, and I'm also seriously thinking of trying colon hydrotherapy. And I'm only on Chapter 4!

    I also have to say that listening to the book on audio -- now that I'm finally getting around to it -- has some benefits over a hard copy. Although you can't highlight or underline, and the narrative voices used to simulate a patient telling their story are kind of cheesy, I feel like I'm really getting more out of it than if I was reading it myself -- sort of like listening to a lecture. I would definitely recommend it if, like me, you have a hard time focusing when you're reading.

    So I have one question... Has anyone come across a good chart showing the glucose content of things like honey, maple syrup, and coconut sugar (something Wendy had recommended in the past that I've been using when I occasionally bake, thinking it was healthier)? I'm thinking I need to stop using them all, but I still want to understand how they compare to refined sugar products.

  • Heidihill
    Heidihill Member Posts: 5,476
    edited July 2016

    Still have to read the book but here's a listing of sweetener GIs:

    http://www.sugar-and-sweetener-guide.com/glycemic-...

    I'm with you on the healing trips, Deanna!

  • lala1
    lala1 Member Posts: 1,147
    edited July 2016

    dlb823---Forgive my ignorance but what does "TMs" mean?

  • barbski60
    barbski60 Member Posts: 39
    edited July 2016

    TM = tumor markers (I had to look it up too)


  • supercw
    supercw Member Posts: 7
    edited July 2016

    so happy to see this as a whole thread. i love this book.

  • dlb823
    dlb823 Member Posts: 9,430
    edited July 2016

    Heidihill, thanks for that excellent list! Very helpful!

    lala1 ~ As barb said, TM = tumor markers -- what the CA27-29 or CEA or CA15-3 tests measure. In the book, a radical remission prostate cancer patient kept a food diary to see if his diet affected his TMs, and it did. His TMs rose with meat, dairy and sugar products, including agave nectar, which is low on the glycemic index, but still had a negative effect on his TMs.

  • TwoHobbies
    TwoHobbies Member Posts: 2,118
    edited July 2016

    OK, dlb, that bit about tumor markers and diet made me order the book today. I have been doing an experiment with my fasting and postprandial glucose based on the idea that those with lower blood glucose fare better. It has been an interesting experiment and I know what I can occasionally get away with versus what I should totally avoid

  • dlb823
    dlb823 Member Posts: 9,430
    edited July 2016

    TwoHobbies, are you actually checking your glucose levels with a meter and test strips? And how are you fasting? You probably know this, but Valter Longo @ USC (I think he's still here; not sure) has researched and written extensively on the benefit of fasting for cancer patients. If you haven't read some of his stuff, I highly recommend it. Here's a little piece for those not familiar w/him. (I'm also a big fan of Dan Buettner's Blue Zones research.)

    https://www.bluezones.com/2016/04/fasting-for-long...

    There actually is another supplement product on the market -- not Dr. Longo's ProLon -- something by Elysium Health, which also has an impressive slate of founders -- that also mimics the positive effects of fasting. Unfortunately, my UCLA onc didn't think adding it to my regimen was advisable at the moment, but it's been on my radar for awhile now. https://www.elysiumhealth.com/team


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