Radical Remission Book Club by Kelly A. Turner, Ph.D.

Anonymous

I really found this book to be inspiring and facinating. In the Bone Mets Group, we have often discussed aspects of this book and can relate to our own scans and findings that have no explanations as to why new scans show healed lesions before a stage 4 is even discovered. I am an example of that finding. It is not a book that recommends you to discontinue current treatment but tells stories of how our immune system can cause havoc and the success stories of immune system building. Please join in our discussion!!

Anonymous

After an 18 year remission, I was diagnosed with Mets to my bones. The bone scan showed healed lesions in my thoracic spine that were not there in 2008. Somewhere between 2008-2015 my immune system took care of the metastasis. In 2015 after a routine MRI for degenerate disk disease active Mets with previous healed Mets were found. My MO explained to me that my immune system fought off the earlier Mets. The two previous years to my new diagnosis I went through a very stressful year with a poor diet.

In October 2015 I began a new journey with my stage 4 diagnosis by starting with diet. No credit to this book because I had not read it yet but decided to go vegan. I also did rads, revisited letroloze, and have been on Ibrance for 8 months. Recent scans are stable with slow areas of healing.

I am continuing to try and build a strong immune system knowing if I did it before I can do it again.

Carol

singlemom1

Hi Carol,

I am curious, were you taking supplements during the time your immune system fought off the earlier mets?

I have recently purchased the book and have been following the authors Facebook for the last few months.

Bonnie.

Andi67

Hi Carol! I'm from the Bone Mets thread... thanks for starting this. Buying Radical Remission (and the Qigong or whatever it's called DVD) have been on my to do list this week, so this is extra encouraging and supportive. I have tried to change my diet since being diagnosed almost four years ago, but I know there are other things I should be doing.... so I am excited about reading it!

XO

Andi

Anonymous

Hi Bonnie- I was not taking any special supplements during that time where the mets healed. I did loose about 15 pounds by doing a pea protein shake with coconut milk twice a day, and a meat protein and veg for the dinner meal in 2012. Gained it all back plus some with lots of stress 2014-2015 but now my weight is where I am good at. I would like to eliminate 10 more pounds and I am slowly getting there.

I ordered some ph strips and my ph is 7.5 which is pretty good. I also ordered the tapes but they have not arrived.

The diet is easy to do but I would be lying if I said I did not miss the normalcy of going out to dinner and having things I no longer eat. By far the biggest cheat I do as a vegan is Iwill have some sock eye salmon.

I am having my first Riki session tomorrow. Supplements are next on my list.

Carol

Anonymous

Hi Andi- let me know when you get the tapes, this should be interesting to do. I am so arthritic I wonder how I will do!!

Carol

annieoakley

Carol, the arthritis is what Qigong has helped me with the most. It also has given me a new found energy I didn't have before I started. The most important thing with the movements is to focus on the breath. I do it daily and once a week in a class specifically for cancer patients. Let me know when you get the DVD. I was excited when I read the chapter about Qigong in Radical Remission.

Heidihill

Lovesmaltese, that is very interesting about your healed lesions. I am not a doctor but I think it certainly could have been your immune system but I wonder if it could also have been just getting older and the cell changes aging brings on increasing the chances of successful metastasis. It could be both, of course. Many things we do are aging. We need something like a "fountain of youth," speaking of supplements.

http://www.newswise.com/articles/fountain-of-youth...

I only occassionally use supplements though, for example, like now I'm preparing for a trip and don't want to get sick so I'm taking zinc and vitamin C. My thinking is that I don't want my body to get dependent on supplements. OTOH I may need something soon to enhance my vision. LOL.

Anonymous

Annie- I'm over to MA this week visiting with family. They have a healing class that offers QiGong twice a week. Looking into going to one before I head back home. So excited.

Anonymous

Heidi- During the time that I think those mets appeared was such a rewarding time in my life! Our 3 daughters all got married between 2007-2009- we celebrated a new marriage 3 years in a row. Then from 2010-2013 I was blessed with 6 grandchildren. It wasn't until I lost a 14 year old love of my life dog in 2012 and a devastating loss to a new 2 yo pup that had a diseased brain that I helped cross the bridge that caused me such undeniable grief that I am sure caused havoc on my failing immune system. The mind is powerful. I need the most work there.

Going to look at some supplements today. Maybe start one at a time. I was thinking of starting with milk thistle.

Carol

singlemom1

Carol,

I am so very condused about supplements. My onc says no to all, but so much reading says yes to many. I also agree on the stress. I had a very difficult time for at least 9 months prior to the mets diagnosis. I hope you enjoy the reiki

Andi67

I love Reiki! I think it's just amazing. My sister in law just became a Reiki Master... she's now working on sound therapy healing techniques. I have been taking supplements for over three years. One of my doctors at Cancer Center Treatment of America recommended them... the most important one is a mushroom extract that is an immune system booster. It's called ( I am going to spell this wrong) Coriolus. Of course, I don't take them as often as I should, but I try to remember 3-4 times a week. Until this last winter, I didn't get "sick" at all, even when everyone around me did so I definitely think they help.

I am also somewhat arthritic - or maybe it's just joint pain left over from chemo, so I am really hoping these tapes help.

I agree 100% with the stress and the mind/body connection.

XO

Andrea

jensgotthis

My breast cancer primary tumor was in the left side and the irony was not lost on me that it was over my heart as I was in a marriage that probably should have ended sooner than it did. I found out about the cancer once I emerged from the darkness after separation and was diagnosed Stage 4 de novo. I definetely believe in the stress connection. I'm excited to pull out my copy of Radical Remission and begin reading it again and talking more with all of you about it.

Milaandra

I, too, believe in the stress/cancer connection. I think mine started during my mother's illness and death, and got out of control during a period of intense financial stress.

dtad

singlemom....I get it. The information on supplements can be confusing. However don't expect your MO to recommend them. Most conventional docs know very little about supplements. Its just not part of their medical training. Those that do know something have the motivation to learn on their own. You really have to see a naturopathic doc if you want some guidance on supplements. Good luck to all....

Anonymous

I'm very interested in learning about supplements too. I just researched milk thistle and low and behold it is not recommended for estrogen positive cancers. It can increase estrogen. I am going to discuss supplements with my MO at my next visit. I was approved to take turmeric and a B-12 supplement but so far that is all I have asked.

I also found some information on just regular white button mushrooms have estrogen blocking properties. So I have added them to my diet each day.

Stress and diet we have control over and I am going to strive to keep working on both of them. I can create stress from just about anything if I let myself. I am learning to avoid situations (even ones that interest me) to avoid any aggravation.

Carol

Longtermsurvivor

This book was published "after the event" for me...so I read it with interest to find whether I was missing any essential ingredient for well-being. Not much!

We seem to emphasize medicines, treatments, diet, supplements, nutrition and maybe body/energy work for dealing with cancer.

Yet, this book points out that we are so much more than bodies to be maintained and upgraded.

I've been dealing with advanced breast cancer for most of my adult life - over 25 years now - without NED. So, it's been a dynamic, dancing work of art, more than a work of science. I'm more about health/healing than medicine and medical interventions.

Here's something I wrote earlier about my approach to holistic healing with MBC

https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/79/topics...

Being on hospice, I'm even more committed to CAM/integrative medicine. My goals may be different, not cure or remission, but I still constantly engage all those tools to achieve the highest possible quality of life. Living well while dying is my goal and it's working out pretty well, because I've engaged these practices and processes for decades now.

I encourage everyone to invite healing allies to work with your intentions - whether cure, remission or dying well.

warmest healing regards for all, Stephanie

AmyQ

I just purchased the book on my iPad and have been digesting every word - I'm on vacation in Florida so enjoying the prospect of either returning and slowly modifying my diet OR taking advantage of the fresh, yummy natural foods found in Florida this time of year. So far I've resorted to the usual, fried shrimp, fried oysters, fried clams, too much fried and not enough natural and add fruity alcoholic drinks, it's not a healthy combination.

Today however I am hungry and actually craving baby lettuces with fruit and light fruity dressings. I am enjoying reading the success stories and learning that most of those mentioned in the book were not crazy obsessive about their life-altering changes, which btw do not all center around food. Purified water is important as is exercise and reducing stress.

I actually visualize myself being one of those enjoying radical remission, so instead of waiting until I return from vacation, I think I'll start with my next meal.

Enjoy!

Amy

Kendrasue

So happy to be joining in here! I've just downloaded Radical Remission into my Nook, and my DF has ordered the Qi Gong DVD for me. I'm just barely into the first few pages. Happy to see you AmyQ! And you, too, Carol! And you, too, AnnieOakley! And, everyone else, as well! Already, I have learned that button mushrooms are anti-estrogen--thank you, Carol! I fear I might need to edge in slowly with a drastic diet change. Does anyone else have this concern, or must it be rigid forever more? As I said, I'm only a few pages in.

xo,

Valerie

AmyQ

Valerie,

There is a section that provides suggestions for easing into your new lifestyle changes...mostly common sense stuff so don't worry.

I'm going to use the ease-in approach too.

I look forward to more discussions about the book. I also wonder if any the patients mentioned in the book are members of BCO.

Amy

Anonymous

When I was diagnosed stage 4 in October my daughter suggested that I try vegan so I did a little research and started. Once I learned more about anything white I changed that. I cut out white rice, and try to stick with sprouted grain breads. I miss potatoes and pasta but I do have sprouted pasta. As for protein, it's beans, beans, and more beans. Your body adjusts and there is no gas. I eat avocados and do not skimp on olive and coconut oil! I do have salmon. As a matter of fact Whole Foods has Copper River Salmon right now. I stocked up and froze today. Best salmon ever. I can report that before vegan diet my cholesterol was 230. It is now in the normal range! My fasting glucose is 100, where I was borderline before. So it has helped me in those areas. Breakfast is sprouted grain rice cereal and almond milk and fruit. Or sprouted English muffin with avocado and I love cashew butter. It's the hardest meal to have variety in . I miss eggs. I would love to think that this is helping build my immune system to help fight this battle, but at the very least it has helped me be healthier in other areas. There is not a diet that has provided any accurate studies that it cures cancer, but healthier eating makes for more energy and we all can use more of that. Have a great weekend.

Carol

Anonymous

Amy, enjoy your Florida trip! I can taste those fried oysters and clAms and I would cheat and eat that ever before I would eat a dessert!!

Anonymous

Hi Val! Great to see you here!!

Anonymous

Steph- thanks for joining in and for sharing your journey. May your attitude and positive thinking rub off on everyone you share with. Hugs, Carol

dlb823

So glad to see this thread, Carol. I've needed motivation to plug in the audio version of this book I bought on Amazon months ago (thinking it was a hardcover version), and I think this thread and discussion will finally get me into it. I've always been and still am a serious supplement user, as well as being a very clean, mostly organic/vegetarian eater. I strongly believe that the stress of a flood that pretty much destroyed our home was a major catalyst in my re-dx, and de-stressing my life has become my most important priority.

Nice to see so many friends here!

Longtermsurvivor

For those who haven't read the whole book, here're the 9 Key Factors for Radical Remission as described by author Dr. Kelly Turner . Each factor has its own chapter.

It's fascinating to me that only two key factors of them focus on what we traditionally think of as holistic/CAM care - diet and herbs & supplements.

And no mention of exercise as a key, though I'm certain it fits in for most of us. Keith Block in his book Life Over Cancer has excellent, supportive work on exercise - no matter your level of ability/fitness. And David Servan-Schrieber included it in AntiCancer: A New Way of Life.

9 Key Factors for Radical Remission

1. Radically changing your diet.

2. Taking control of your health.

3. Following your intuition.

4. Using herbs and supplements.

5. Releasing suppressed emotions.

6. Increasing positive emotions.

7. Embracing social support.

8. Deepening your spiritual connection.

9. Having strong reasons for living.

Remember, this isn't a recipe for success where you just get all the ingredients and follow all the steps to get the results you want. It's a retrospective reflection on what worked for the patients she studied. She is not a medical doctor, but a researcher, lecturer, and consultant in the field of integrative oncology. Her study is anecdotal (story-based, case studies reported by the patients) more than a controlled clinical trial with associated double-blind, statistics, etc.

We can use this as a map or chart, but each of us must walk our own unique path - perhaps achieving radical remission, perhaps having other adventures along our very personal ways.

Warmest of healing wishes for all, Stephanie

Anonymous

Steph- you are absolutely correct. I'm on board to balance and let positive take over. As an example, I just had scans that reported stable with a little healing. The big but is I have some kind of left pain my Rod leg that is new. Maybe it's sciatica because it does improve after I move around and it comes from my butt area. I will cancel clear my mind when I think otherwise. That's the best I can do for now. The pain was there when the scans were taken. Thanks for your input.

Carol

labelle

I read this book shortly after being diagnosed with BC. Just wanted to add my recommendation. I really enjoyed this book and do believe our bodies have a tremendous ability to heal themselves and that this ability ought not be ignored but studied.

labelle

Re milk thistle:

"Milk thistle has been shown to have estrogenic-mimicking effects, about on par with common soy isoflavones, making them a theoretically poor choice for people with breast cancer. Some sources claim that it's only the "above ground" parts of milk thistle – the leaves and stalk – that are estrogenic, whereas the seeds are not. I don't really buy that. The study above used silymarin to mimic estrogen (albeit very modestly), and silymarin is definitely present in the seeds (PDF).

Even so, remember that milk thistle is primarily taken to increase liver health. What's one of the myriad responsibilities of our humble livers? To process, metabolize, and excrete excess estrogen. We need a healthy liver to get rid of extra estrogen that may contribute to estrogen dominance-related breast cancer. Even if milk thistle is mildly estrogenic, the benefits to our liver health probably outweigh those effects. Sure enough: in one recent study, an herbal conglomerate featuring milk thistle as one of the active participants actually increased estrogen metabolism, effectively reducing the amount of active estrogen by speeding up its clearance from the body. The authors concluded that this likely meant a reduction in breast cancer risk. A very recent in vitro study found that silymarin had a synergistic effect with a common anti-breast cancer drug, while silymarin itself has shown anti-carcinogenic effects on isolated human breast cancer cells."

Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/milk-thistle-and-estrogen-low-libido-and-pollution-mitigation/#ixzz4BJgxAFk0

I do take milk thistle-mine is made from the seeds of the plant. We know that Tamoxifen is not kind to our livers and personally, I think the benefits of milk thistle on the liver, outweigh any risks from its estrogenic properties. Heck, I'm taking a drug prescribed by my oncologist that is known to cause liver damage, blood clots and increases my risk for endometrial cancer. The choices we have to make!

ShetlandPony

One interesting line of thought this book suggested to me was prompted by the questions at the end of chapter 3, the chapter on intuition. It says to ask yourself, "What has contributed to my illness?" and "What do my body, mind, and soul need in order to get well again?" Then in chapter four she uses the analogy of how bleaching your moldy basement will not keep the mold from coming back if you don't also change the conditions by bringing in fresh, dry air. Now, I don't believe all the factors that contribute to cancer are in my control, and it certainly isn't my fault. I do think it is interesting to consider what aspects of my life seven or so years before my diagnosis could have contributed. So I come up with long-term stress, low vitamin D, low iron, and lack of exercise. The vitamin D and iron I have corrected. Maybe I should focus particularly on stress reduction and exercise. I think I actually pay the most attention to nutrition, even though my diet has always been pretty good. I think chapters five through eight -- on emotions, social support, and spiritual connection -- all could come under the general category of stress reduction.

Anonymous

Shet- I agree with every word you just wrote. I agree that we are not in control and certainly if we thought we were doing something to bring on a cancer diagnosis I can't imagine that anyone of us would have contributed to continuing that.

I found very interesting that one gentleman early in the book, that inspired me the most was the one that took the clean breaths of fresh air and put some science to it in regards to why the birds chirped so early. That same man also did not give up coffee/caffeine because it made him feel good, I assume a little boost of energy. Something there made me think... I gave up my single cup of caffeine because of the alkaline thing....and never regained that morning boost that I loved. Guess what? I added it back. We have to choose and pick the battles that we know help us. I know the diet I have chosen has helped my cholesterol and glucose levels. With that being said, yesterday I attended a wonderful dance recital for 3 of my granddaughters. After we celebrated at a great Mexican restaurant. I did have 2 wonderful coronas, unhealthy chips, and I am sure all the veggies and beans and white flour shells were not organic and not sautéed in olive or coconut oil. But guess what? It was one of the best days of my life and Radical Remission has me thinking about choices and when they are best for us.

I always pick three things from the day before that I am thankful for. Even if it something that is taken for granted.

Carol