POLITICAL JUNKIES
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So many fascinating angles to this campaign.
There is much complaining by candidates of the unfairness of rules, regulations and laws when they don't swing in their favor. I think Sanders is frustrated at this point because NY voter laws affected those who wanted to vote for him but could not. Perhaps when he has time to think things through, to right his ship, he will begin to back HRC. Let's hope.
And now that Trump has won so openly in NY, he's not griping about unfair delegate counts.
I always survey the big picture, and by that, I really do mean the visual snapshot of what's happening with the candidates. While Donald made his victory speech last night, in the crowd behind him was Tiffany and a couple other unknown women with long blonde straight hair parted down the middle. Ivanka was off to the side and could been seen when the camera zoomed out. But where was Melania? I wonder how much of the process she understands.
I look forward to seeing who the nominated candidates select as their running mates.
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ksusan, that should never happen. Never, ever. So sorry you went through such a hard time at the hands of small-minded people.
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I've never understood the mentality of beating someone up because the person is gay, and am sorry to learn of your experience, ksusan. I grew up in the Ohio Vally, very straight laced. Hardly anyone was openly gay around here until the past decade. Before that, many people who wanted to live an openly gay lifestyle moved far away. There seemed to be more scandal involved with interracial couples that gays around here, and I knew many girls who moved away because they had black boyfriends and it was so unacceptable. Now there is much more tolerance of many lifestyles.
We have a gay couple who live across the street. My husband is friends with one of the guys, and that's a big breakthrough for hubby. He's got s a little of that (straight) white male entitlement mixed into his personality so it's telling to me that he's gradually become more open minded on these things. I believe it is due to the influence of me and our son as we tend to be more liberal
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Regarding Trump, he is promising so much on that victory platform. Gonna bring back jobs to the U.S. Build up the military to its strongest capacity ever. And the Wall on the Mexican border.
Another fairy tale he spoke of: claims he'll bring back the steel mills. It's such a ridiculous statement, I can't see how anyone could believe him. Those mills are his-tor-y.
It's being said that since this most recent shake up with his campaign managers that Trump is trying to polish his image more. There were no insults hurled as he made his speech last night. Sounds like he's hunkering down.
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Divine, truer words have not been spoken. He never says the "how" part, just that he "will" and "it will be great." Oh well, if he is the nominee, I have a feeling the questions will get tougher and he will be forced to answer them or he will lose all credibility.
Word is that the scrutiny into his financial life will increase if he is nominated and lots of people will lose faith if he was less than honest about his personal net-worth and/or how many times he has had a business go belly-up or lose a lot of money. Stories abound on the net about condo projects, shopping centers, attractions etc. started and never completed with many of them never getting off the ground. Many angry folks out there on this issue.
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ksusan - my middle son is gay, luckily he can more then take care of himself if confronted with that situation! He's also broken a lot of girls hearts
DT had to get 50% of the vote to get all of the delagates, how did he do on that front?
I just added this to my favs - nice to see sensible political discussion for a change!
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Hydranne - we need a LIKE button around here! Spot on!
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Trumps business's cater to the rich only. Perhaps if he put his golden name on some affordable housing, for the average American he can sell more of the half empty high rise condos, hotel rooms, retail space, etc. It is beneath him to associate with most Americans. Why would anyone buy steak, vodka, water, just bc his name is printed on it? Can the average person afford to stay in his hotels? The only way an average person can spend money on a Trump product is in his casino where he can take money from the average joe.
He wants "trump" to be synonymous with rolex in a timex country.
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HomeMom, if you click on the smiley, you can get the thumbs up. I am giving this post an enthusiastic thumbs up! Edited to add that I meant Hydranne's post. Hell, you all get a thumbs up from me! Intelligent and wonderful women, the lot of you.
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Hydranne, thanks for the nice words. I certainly receive much good information from this thread, giving me insight into the political campaign I wouldn't find otherwise. I like that we are all able to discuss the matter which I have to admit is probably more interesting because of Trump. Yet the idea of a woman as president, that's what has the most appeal to me.
Any of my observations are just thrown out there not necessarily to persuade others to see things my way but in a way to say, this is how I perceive the situation and others may perceive it that way as well. Everyone's own personal experience colors how they perceive the campaign, as in the case of ksusan. For me, being in my mid 50s growing up in an area and era that I now realize how oppressive of women and discriminatory against them it has been, I want change. I want a more equal playing field. You know how Reagan said, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" . Well, I want Hillary to be able to say, "Oppressors of American women, tear down this glass ceiling!"
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ksusan, what I see and hear when talking to younger people (DS, nephews, nieces, their friends.....all in their 20s), is that the sexuality of their friends is not something they even think about. They just accept people as people (and in doing so are dragging their older family members along.......it's harder to stick to a prejudice when you know the real people you think you don't like.....for whatever reason). Here is a cute story about my 90 year old friend.....one of her sons lives on the West Coast with another man. One day we were talking about her family and she commented, "Maybe his friend IS just a roommate, who knows? Maybe they are married." Then she laughed and shrugged. And I was delighted.
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Ha ha, that's a great poster and adorable story about your 90 year old friend, Ruth.
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Just stopping in to say because I had the pleasure to meet Hydanne, have spoken before to ( on another thread long time back ) Ruthbru, and as well Chi-Sandy. I have been in love with politics for a few yrs. now ( about three yrs. into Obama's first term ) but have to admit I found the time due to my diagnosis and as well the fact that I have ALL BIL's in my family and they were/are avid, almost rabid Fox viewers. I always had trouble trying to watch Fox and I presume it is because I watch so much other news. Channel hopping one evening Dh and I found MSNBC which we now watch, along with our regular news programs.
I am not well up on politics, but have always leaned Democrat so registered that way. Up until Obama's second term ( though I did vote for him the first term ) I generally voted for the person I felt was most qualified. In Obama's second term for the first time I voted straight Democratic ticket. I don't know what I will do in the up-coming election, but from the get-go I really felt ( no matter how many Republicans got on the ticket ) that no one had the broad range of attributes that would be necessary on that side. Certainly winnowed things down rather quickly that way.
On the Dems side I always felt from the first debate that it was between Bernie & Hillary. I like Bernie well enough and would vote for him if that is the way it turned out, but Hillary is my first choice. I have had wonderful feelings for many of our Democratic Presidents, but I actually think it is time for a woman. I truly feel women are generally far less rigid when it comes to situations where one's empathies should come into play --- like Newtown. Like equal rights and equal pay.
Like many of you, I don't understand Bernie either though someone did mention that perhaps he did so well ( much more so than he hoped ) that he is a bit caught up in it all. I hope his heading for Vermont alone last night was to do some real personal searching for how best to move forward.
Loved the story of the 90 yr. old. Sounds like a very pragmatic well put together person. So many people have valuable lessons to share. Good points here with people listening to each other's view with an ear toward understanding differences, maybe even embracing some, but at least willing to recognize the beauty of differences without upset. That beauty would sometimes be hard to see and appreciate if that was all there were. I admire those who have the capacity to not be robotically rigid in thinking. What a joy that we are all different --- we learn so much more from our differences than we otherwise would. Like Joanne Whorley ( if anyone recalls the old Laugh-In show ) if we were all the same " BORING " as she drug out the word.
Jackie
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Greg Palast reports that up to 125,000 voters (mostly Democrats in majority-ethnic minority precincts) in Brooklyn had to vote via “provisional" ballot because their names had been removed from the rolls for no apparent reason. (Good luck getting a provisional ballot counted). I was amazed to learn that Brooklyn was subject to the Voting Rights Act's extra-scrutiny requirements, along with Southern states. And this purging goes on all over the country, in blue as well as red states. At a meeting recently, he asked how many have ever had to cast a provisional ballot. Only two hands went up--both black. He cited a statistic that black voters are 900% likelier to have had their names stricken and forced to take provisional ballots than are white. Pretty sobering, even considering the source (Palast is so far left he makes Michael Moore sound like Michael Medved).
Sanders' campaign confirmed today that it was still looking to win as many pledged delegates as possible (and the e-mails claimed it could be done with some more, and repeated, $2.70 donations). IMHO, he made two huge mistakes--first, by underestimating how much his platform would resonate so for too long he ran his campaign like the quirky near-third-party guy the DNC viewed him to be at the outset; had he gotten more serious much earlier, the race could have been realistically neck-and-neck by now. Second, he failed to do early enough what Obama's first-run supporters did: parallel (or even preface) campaign efforts by digging deep and registering enough new voters (and getting those in closed-primary states to register as Democrats--or switch affiliation to Democrat--sufficiently before deadlines). He might have done far better in NY, especially in the cities, had he done that, and garnered more pledged delegates. A third, smaller mistake (but one that might torpedo his one remaining last-minute Hail Mary pass--I realize the religious irony--strategy) was to alienate or at least fail to engage party-regular superdelegates and convince them that he was not out to oust them but rather to open their minds to his platform. There is no way on earth for him to capture all remaining pledged delegates in the upcoming primaries & caucuses; and his only hope of snagging enough superdelegates to make it more of an even battle was essentialy hoist on his own petard of “politcal revolution:" a phrase that scares the bejeepers out of the very people he's going to need on his side.
Granted, hindsight is powerful and he has done far better than anyone (including he) expected. If he wants to keep running, that's his prerogative--over on the other side of the aisle, Cruz and (especially) Kasich are proceeding with lower odds than Sanders at this point. But he has to realize--assuming his principles are more important to him than the nomination--that none of those goals will ever be achieved without a Democratic Congress & White House; and that the few ultra-progressive outsider down-ticket candidates he's telling his followers to support, even if they get elected, will be powerless in a GOP-dominated Congress and a Trump White House. He can keep running, but still save face (and his agenda) by beginning to urge his supporters to donate to and vote for the party's nominee and all Democrats running for Congress.
And for good measure (and HRC realizes this), to support Democrats in state and local elections, too. That's where most of the laws that affect the fabric of this country are enacted, and that's who will be drawing district lines after the next census.
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Hi Jackie. well it is not boring, that is for sure!
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Rachel Maddow just interviewed Sanders' senior strategist Tad Devine, and while he appeared more measured and rational than Jeff Weaver last night, he is just as delusional, as evidenced by his insistence that Sanders could still clinch the nomination before the convention by winning the caucuses and most of the remaining primaries and then--this is the truly incredible part--getting the Democratic Party to coalesce and unite behind him. (I am reminded of a certain quote by Wayne & Garth about monkeys, flying, and butts). He also said, when confronted with the fact that HRC has garnered more popular vote in primaries than either any one candidate, or all this year's other candidates combined, “popular vote doesn't nominate Presidential candidates--delegates do; and it's states that elect a President." He claims he can win most of the upcoming states and win more total states than HRC. (Of course, unlike Congressional districts and delegates, different states have different amounts of electoral votes). He said that “Caucus states are front-loaded, while the primary states are rear-loaded" (I think he may have meant the reverse, using “front-loaded" to mean “prospective" rather than in the usual sense of “front" being earlier).
Devine said the party will coalesce behind the candidate with the best chance in the general election. In an ideal universe, it would--but in reality the more electable candidate loses the primary, whereas the one who best resonates with the base gets the nomination and then goes down in flames in November. (On the GOP side, many races since the advent of the Tea Party; on the Democratic side, the example of Joe Sestak winning the 2010 Dem. Senatorial primary over Arlen Specter (who polled far higher in a hypothetical Nov. contest) and then losing the general. And right now the only evidence we have of Sanders having the best chance of beating a Republican is polls--polls taken before the conservative dark-money Koch-addict super-PACs have had a chance to attack him on the national stage. Look--in that regard, HRC's been field-tested since her first Senate run in 2000 (and before that as First Lady). She beat Whitewater, Benghazi, and E-Mail-Gate: by now she's faced everything the GOP can throw at her and is basically bulletproof. Bernie's fresh out of the wrapper and has never had to run against a conservative except in Vermont.
HOW on earth can Sanders--an independent who caucuses with Democrats in the Senate but doesn't seem to support the party in any other way--get the party to unite behind HIM when he hasn't raised a cent for it or endorsed any of its nominees this year except for a couple of extremely progressive (a la Nader) Congressional candidates (one of whom has yet to win her state's primary)? He trashed the DNC the other day over its funneling money to Clinton & vice versa (something it has done for all candidates for years); it also endorsed him in his Senate election and most of his House elections before that. You don't bite the hand that feeds you and then insist it will caress you (and stop feeding the one who doesn't bite).
Look, I understand he has started a movement and raised millions in tiny donations from loyal and passionate supporters and, as Devine said, believes it's only fair to give them a chance to vote for him. But there comes a point when one has to recognize that continuing a failing quest will ensure not just the continuance of the very system he wants to defeat but perhaps reinforce it and make achieving his vision that much harder for the next candidate to come along. If he stays in this race much longer, he'll have Berned his bridges behind his dream for America.
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"If he stays in this race much longer, he'll have Berned his bridges behind his dream for America" amen ChiSandy...sigh
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Prepared. Polished. Presidential. That's what Hillary Clinton is. She's been taking notes her entire political life, with the advantage of being her husband's understudy, so to speak, when he was President. She's also learned from her own previous campaigns and applied that knowledge to this one.
Sanders was out-maneuvered and out-strategized. So just as Hillary had to take some lumps and coalesce with the Obama campaign of eight years ago, putting the Democratic Party first and her desire for the presidency on hold, Sanders is going to have to face the same music. Maybe he didn't realize the power Clinton had and her ability to put into action everything she's learned. He didn't fully grasp her all-encompassing clout. This isn't her first rodeo.
I think HRC made backroom deals before she threw her support behind Obama. Could be that Sanders is wanting to make a deal with the Democratic Party and HRC before he backs Her as their nominee
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I think one of the reasons Sanders has been able to continue is because his grassroots fundraising has been enormously effective. He spent heavily in NY, because he had the money, where other losing candidates at this point in the cycle might have had to pull out because the donations weren't there anymore.
And yes, Kayb, I agree he doesn't feel the same commitment to party unification that a lifelong Democrat would, and that Clinton certainly did 8 years ago.
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I was thinking about why I have switched my vote to HRC from initially supporting BS and I realized they really are similar in most ways despite the differences they battle about during debates.
They both have the best interests of the USA at heart. They have both served their country in some way their entire adult lives and have put up with a lot of divisiveness to do so. The public is very fickle and as such, one minute they love ya, the next you are fodder for jokes and cruel jabs to your integrity. They both put up with that and soldiered on to reach the goals and vision they had for their constituents. Both of them are very much "for the people."
I saw just how committed Hillary is when she lost the nomination (which she truly expected was hers) to the young upstart, Barack Obama in 2008. When later on she was tapped to be his Secretary of State, she dove in head first and whole-heartedly served her country in that capacity with no malice against her once rival Obama. I have read that they have become quite close in real life and share a lot of the same goals for this country which is mostly all good from where I sit.
I think Bernie is a wonderful dreamer who has not waivered for eons on his commitment to seeing equality on all fronts and wanting a better life for the poor and middle class. His views on how to get there often strike me as idealism with no real path to achieving his goals but his idealism and care is infectious so I was absolutely "feeling the Bern" for a good long time. He did turn me off a bit when he got a little nasty of late. I did not like seeing this side of him and it made me uncomfortable.
As Divine said above "Prepared. Polished. Presidential" is how I am seeing Hillary and I must also admit to a little excitement at the thought of back to back history being made. The first black President followed by the first woman President? I must be dreaming!
We sure have come a long, long way to the "Help wanted Male, Help wanted Female" days of my youth. That always disturbed me, even as a young girl when I looked in the newspaper and saw those ads! I asked my Mom "why can't a girl be an auto mechanic?" My mom's answer was priceless - She said "They can! It is just that men don't want us to be because it pays better than being a secretary does." How true was that!!!
Ok, done rambling my thoughts today.
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Off Topic: Sad news for those of you who liked the artist "Prince" Looks like he has died...
http://hollywoodlife.com/2016/04/21/prince-dead-sick-sudden-death/
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Oh wow, what a shock!
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Yeah, all over mainstream media now so it is definite. I read a blurb earlier on Huff Post and then saw it hit AP and knew it was likely true...so sad. He was only 57!
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I have a couple of thoughts about Sanders --- no one may see it, but I felt like I did. I liked Bernie all along, but truthfully felt more convinced from the start it should be Hillary. One of the things I noted ( and I need to put a disclaimer here as I no longer have links for it ) is that Bernie most often votes up or down depending on how it will hurt Wall St. Just saying that in some of the debates when Hillary could point a finger at him for his "vote" I had a feeling that causing disruption or destruction was more important to him. Just didn't seem to be looking at the BIG picture during these votes.
Also, when Bernie was ranting about super delegates and the DNC and rigging issues --- if I hadn't been aware that it was actually him talking --- I would have thought I was listening to RINO Trump. I am much more annoyed with Bernie as of late and think his advisors are too eager to HELP him stay in what is a losing proposition for him I do believe. ChiSandy had it all laid out well. Bernie just seems to be almost a one-issue candidate -- like income inequality and big banks.
As someone said --- Hillary has been tested over and over. She made the grade a long time ago. Just my fairly humble feelings.
Jackie
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kayb, I hope the message gets to Bernie's strongest supporters. I was watching The Nightly Show last night, with Susan Sarandon and regular contributor Mike Yard in the panel discussion. Sarandon kept saying she refused to even say the words “Hillary might win;" and Yard said it wasn't fair to have to choose between two people he “hates." Both of them kept saying that HRC was “the System" and that nobody was going to listen and nothing would change unless “stuff got blown up [metaphorically--interpretation mine]." They both claimed it was high time for a third or even fourth party. (How's that working out for the Reform or Green so far)? Nobody else was able to get a word in edgewise, let alone state the obvious (and reasonable) fact that revolution can't happen unless the voting majority buys into the idea. The one thing Yard said that made sense was that perhaps it was time to get parties out of the nominating process, let the people pick among all the candidates and the one with the most votes (I assume popular, but electoral might still be a possibility in the general) would win. If there were a “primary" it would be an elimination round for a general run-off--as it is in jurisdictions that hold nonpartisan elections (such as Seattle's mayoral electoral system).
On to Prince. Yet another one of our icons gone way too soon. Especially shocking: he was vegan, teetotaling, and a fitness devotee. As to his having had the “flu," there's been speculation as to whether he was touring recently through an area with Zika-carrying mosquitoes. My money is on something congenital (brain aneurysm?) or hereditary (occult coronary artery disease, which was what killed figure skater Sergei Grinkov at 29 and marathon-runner/folksinger-songwriter Dave Carter at 45). Flu doesn't kill a healthy middle-aged person that suddenly, certainly not after having been discharged from hospital. That he was found “unresponsive in an elevator" (rather than in his room) tells me he'd gone back to his usual active life and his death was sudden, and either unrelated to flu or due to flu having seriously compromised his cardiovascular system.
He took Earth, Wind & Fire's concept of soul-pop fusion and added funk & rock to the mix; he integrated MTV even before Michael Jackson; and he made rock “dangerous" again, reclaiming it as the instrument of generational and sexual rebellion that first scared parents back at its dawn in the 1950s...and then some. He was a perfectionist, who worked fast and prolifically, and refused to issue anything that wasn't up to his high standards. He was creative, a master multi-instrumentalist & bandleader, and genius producer.
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It's even more important for Bernie to get his supporters to “hold their noses" to vote Democratic for downballot (not just Congressional but state & local) elections as well. Remember, it wasn't Congress who enacted HB 52 in NC, abortion restrictions in TX & MS, and severe voting restrictions in a host of states.
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Very sad about Prince.
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The newest issue of Time analyzes what the candidates say they'll do about the budget deficient and what it might actually do to the debt:
*Trump-his current tax & spending plan could actually set us back an additional $30 trillion by 2026
*Clinton-would up spending by 2%. Analysts say her tax hikes would add $498 billion in revenue after 10 years but could reduce GDP growth by 1%
* Cruz-his plan to cut taxes & boost military spending could add an estimated $12.5 trillion to the debt
* Sanders- would levy $15.3 trillion in new taxes, but his new health plan could still add $2 trillion to $15 trillion to the debt & slow GDP growth by 9.5%
*Kasich-hasn't released enough details for the experts to even analyze
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My error about Zephyr Teachout--she ran unsuccessfully for the 2014 Dem. NYS gubernatorial--not the NYC mayoral--nomination. She also lost the Working Families’ Party nomination.
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