Canadian protocol, need help deciding on boost treatments

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jdot
jdot Member Posts: 25

My RO offered the Canadian protocol of 16 treatments plus the option of 4 boost treatments. I feel OK with the Canadian protocol but wonder it's necessary to do the four additional boost treatments to the tumor bed. I'm 49 and had a lumpectomy, 3.5 cm, no spreading to lymph nodes. I don't want more radiation than needed, so I'm in limbo about those 4 additional treatments.

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  • etnasgrl
    etnasgrl Member Posts: 650
    edited March 2016

    I also had the Canadian protocol.
    I'm 41, had Invasive Ductal Carcinoma, 1cm, lumpectomy with clean margins, and no cancer in the lymph nodes.
    I did 15 "regular" treatments and 5 "boosts". My radiation oncologist explained to me that the boosts are actually the most important part of radiation. Since it concentrates only on the surgery bed, it kills any cancer cells that may have been left behind from the lumpectomy, that were too small for the surgical oncologist to see. Her words were, "It provides a little extra insurance".
    I was all for that!!!

    I noticed no difference in my skin from the boosts and so far, have experienced no side effects. I would absolutely say to go ahead with the boosts! Especially if they do provide that little bit of extra insurance. I don't want this nasty crap to ever come back again!

  • jdot
    jdot Member Posts: 25
    edited March 2016

    Etnasgrl, thanks so much for your input. I'm leaning toward the boost treatments. If I'm going through the radiation in the first place, it seems I should get the most out of it. How are you doing on Tamoxifen?

  • etnasgrl
    etnasgrl Member Posts: 650
    edited March 2016

    Well, today is only day three of Tamoxifen, but so far, so good!

    I finished radiation on February 15th. My medical oncologist wanted me to take a two week break before starting the Tamoxifen.
    Knock on wood....so far, I haven't noticed any side effects yet. Hoping that continues!

    I'm glad to hear that you are leaning towards getting the boosts done. I really think that you should.

    Happy

  • Bubbie1
    Bubbie1 Member Posts: 7
    edited March 2016

    jdot, I too opted for the Canadian protocol (hypofractionated) and will start this week (March 10, 2016). I'll be receiving the boost as well. I tried to do my research, but there are many differing opinions regarding the hypofractionated course of treatment vs the longer conventional course- especially with grade 3 tumors, as mine was. I'm doing what seems best to me, just made peace with my decision and am moving forward! Almost looking forward to getting started, just so I can get through it and be done with that step! One day we will put this all behind us, right?

    When will you start your RADS?


  • jdot
    jdot Member Posts: 25
    edited March 2016

    Bubbie1, my radiation starts on the exact same day, March 10, 2016. The facility is an hour and 15 minutes away, so it will be a time consuming "adventure." I'm surprised we are given choices as to treatment length/boosts. I figured my RO would offer his recommendation and that would bit it. It's scary to realize the final decisions are up to me. Do you mind indicating the size of your tumor? Thanks very much for your input.

  • Bubbie1
    Bubbie1 Member Posts: 7
    edited March 2016

    Tumor size was 8mm - small but aggressive! Oncotype score 21 - intermediate risk of recurrence, what my RO described as a 'gray area'.

    Wow, that will be a commute for you. That didn't factor into my decision, since my treatment facility is about 3 miles from my house - I'm very fortunate in that respect.

    My RO gave me the choice but I could tell he favored the shorter treatment. He said if his wife had to make the decision, he would favor her choosing that. He made it clear that he would be fine with whatever I decided, but you're right, its scary when its left up to us! I read a lot of scientific studies and had to brush up on my college statistics classes! And still there were more gray areas. My patient navigator asked me, "If you do have a recurrence years down the road, will you be able to look back and say, 'I made the best decision for myself with the information I had at the time, and I'm at peace with that'? I pondered that for awhile and decided I'd be able to say just that. Decision made.

    Know that I'll be thinking about you on Thursday, as we start this part of our journey together!

  • jdot
    jdot Member Posts: 25
    edited March 2016

    I've done my share of research, too. The extra boost seems to close the gap of an already small risk of recurrence. But I'm with you, I should take that extra insurance since I'm already going through radiation in the first place.

    Sounds like you're off the hook for chemo since your Oncotype score is on the low end of the middle range. Did you have to make that scary decision or was chemo not recommended? Based on the 3.5 cm tumor in my post-op pathology, my RO practically insisted I have chemo before even ordering an Oncotype test. But my MO ordered the test and I got 12 so chemo was off the table. It was so hard waiting those two weeks for test results. When I got the news I cried for a half an hour from relief.

    Good luck to you on Thursday. It's nice to know we're going through this together.

  • ChiSandy
    ChiSandy Member Posts: 12,133
    edited March 2016

    I had a third protocol: 16 treatments, double-dose, all to just the tumor bed. My RO had just finished participating in a trial that found identical results with that, the Canadian protocol (16+5 boosts), and the standard 33-treatment protocol in women >60, with node-negative luminal A tumors <2cm. (I was 64, had node-negative luminal A, 1.3cm). The protocol I had produced less fatigue and fewer skin side effects than the other two (although I did get enlargement of my tumor-cavity seroma and fibrosis between it and the skin).

  • jdot
    jdot Member Posts: 25
    edited March 2016

    Wow, that's interesting, ChiSandy. Is the fibrosis uncomfortable on a day-to-day basis?

  • Suz-Q
    Suz-Q Member Posts: 205
    edited March 2016

    hi jdot, I had the Canadian protocol 16+5. I was very afraid of the boost and made my decision to go ahead with it for two reasons. One of my margins was less than 1 cm and I wanted to make sure I did everything possible to keep the cancer from coming back. No guarantees about this, but I didn't want to live with any regrets either. I did really well with radiation treatments and they fly by once you start.

  • ChiSandy
    ChiSandy Member Posts: 12,133
    edited March 2016

    The fibrosis isn’t at all uncomfortable--and it is softening slowly.

  • jdot
    jdot Member Posts: 25
    edited March 2016

    Thanks for your info, Suz-Q. It's good to know you did so well with radiation.

    ChiSandy, I appreciate your info on fibrosis. Somewhere I read that Vitamin E supplements can help soften fibrosis.

  • jenny153
    jenny153 Member Posts: 21
    edited March 2016

    Hi. I would think you should go with the boosts. My diagnosis was similar to yours, (oncotype score of 18) and I too was given 15 normal rads and 5 boosts to the tumor bed area at the end of treatment. It acts as extra insurance in zapping any stray cells which may be floating around. I finished treatment last Tuesday. To be honest my skin was ok until the second boost when it flared up but I was give a cream called flamezine for use after rads and also nu gel during rads. Cool aloe vira gel also helps if you have any problems with burning. I still think it was worth it to have the boosts though. Good luck.

  • april485
    april485 Member Posts: 3,257
    edited March 2016

    And then there is my protocol...also a clinical trial. I had 10 treatments, 2x a day for 5 days of partial breast rads. Where the standard protocol is whole breast (as is the Canadian) with boosts, mine was in essence just boosts and in the end, it was less radiation and I suffered little to no ill effects (save for fatigue) during and right after I was finished. Now, several years later, I have some fibrosis and shrinkage (quite a bit actually) and am still okay with my choice because I got in and out quickly. As long as it works in the end, I am good with it even though cosmetically it did not work as well as they had hoped. I am way past my age of caring (will be 61) of what my breast looks like without clothes on as it beats having to have a MX (for me as my bc was small) so am good with it.

  • Bubbie1
    Bubbie1 Member Posts: 7
    edited March 2016

    jdot, yes, I too am off the hook for chemo! You're right, those two weeks of waiting were agonizing. Because I'm at the low end of imtermediate, both my MO and RO said that chemotherapy just wouldn't add enough benefit to justify going through it. So that was one decision I didn't have to struggle through. They both stressed the importance of endocrine therapy after radiation though...not looking forward to 5 years of that. Still, counting my blessings regarding the chemo.

  • jdot
    jdot Member Posts: 25
    edited March 2016

    Thanks, jenny153 and april485, for your input. It makes me feel better to know so many of you have had (or will have) boost treatments. I've read about the very short treatment plans. Perhaps they'll become more commonplace in the future.

    Bubbie1, I'm so glad you got a pass on chemo. Just a couple more days and we'll start our radiation. I think it's kind of nice to start on a Thursday rather than jumping right into a Monday-Friday schedule.

  • jnu3
    jnu3 Member Posts: 76
    edited March 2016

    I am having difficult considerations regarding boost treatment. I just completed treatment number 9 of the proposed 15 whole breast radiation. 5 Boost are proposed and I question necessity. Oncotype DX was 13; I will be on hormone supression once done with radiation. My surgery was done December 17, 2015. My treatment plan was delayed because of a delay in receiving Oncotype test results. Radiation started February 24, 2016; 15th treatment will be March 16, 2016 which is 90 days post surgery. I logically cannot understand how beneficial 5 boost treatments to the tumor site would be at this late date. I would have thought that radiation to the tumor site should have been shortly after surgery or at least weeks ago. I am 64 years old. A lot of the information has indicated that some older women treated with hormonal therapy may not need radiation therapy (breastcancer.org/research news). I see my RO tomorrow and will further discuss the plan. I have probably a few days in which to make a final decision. I am so confused.

  • ChiSandy
    ChiSandy Member Posts: 12,133
    edited March 2016

    Welcome, jnu. We're sorry for what brought you here but glad to have you join us.

    First of all, radiation is never done until one has healed from surgery. That's anywhere from 4 wks-2 mos. Radiation isn't just like having an x-ray, its effects are cumulative and real injury can be done to tissues that have yet to heal sufficiently. I had to delay mine due not just because of waiting for my genetic test results (which had they turned out differently might have made bmx advisable instead), but also to the SNB incision rupturing and the seroma beneath it leaking (explosively at first). It had to be sutured, the sutures needed to stay in two weeks and that needed an add'l week to heal. Second, acc. to my RO, the women who are considered old enough to skip rads are generally 70 or even 75+. My ex-office mgr (she & I share the same PCP and MO) was able to skip it--but she's 81. Being over 60 (64 at the time) made me eligible for the partial-breast double-dose 16-treatment protocol--it didn't exempt me from rads as the std. of care.

    Nobody can force you to do or skip anything. But before you make a decision you might regret later on, you need to discuss this thoroughly with your RO, asking him every question that comes to mind.

    Oh, and if you fill out your profile and make it “public," we might be better able to effectively address your concerns.

  • jnu3
    jnu3 Member Posts: 76
    edited March 2016

    I am not foregoing radiation. I am going through the 15 treatments. My concern is the boost and that is where I have left it. I will have completed 15 treatment March 16, 2016. I will be on hormonal therapy for at least the next 5 years. I will be meeting with my RO tomorrow to get his thoughts and recommendations. When I indicated that I logically could not see the benefit of boost after this long, he didn't indicate that there was any problem with a choice of not doing the last week of boost.

    I posted public after the fact. Thank you.

  • ChiSandy
    ChiSandy Member Posts: 12,133
    edited March 2016

    Sorry I focused on your reference to some older women not needing radiation, when your question was actually about boosts. My bad.

  • jdot
    jdot Member Posts: 25
    edited March 2016

    Hello, jnu. I certainly understand your predicament. I'm surprised such an important decision is left to the patient. I have my first treatment today and at this point I'm planning on doing 4 boost treatments after my 16 day plan. My RO said that in Canada and the UK, the boost is typically not done. This made my decision harder. I worry that medicine is overdone in the US and I don't want more radiation than I need. But after reading numerous articles on the topic, plus getting input from everyone here in this thread, I'm feeling better about doing the boost treatments. It only closes the gap of possible recurrence by a few percentage points, but I feel that if I'm going through radiation in the first place I want it to be as effective as possible. My tumor was 3.5 cm, so I think that's another reason to go ahead with the boost to the tumor bed.

    According to one study, women under 40 get the most benefit from the boost. I'm 49 and I hope to have another 40 years to live, and I'd rather not have to deal with breast cancer again. Here's a report I found helpful: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/823566

    Good luck with your decision, jnu. I hope your RO helps you feel comfortable with your final choice. You might consider getting input from your surgeon on the matter.

  • jnu3
    jnu3 Member Posts: 76
    edited March 2016

    jdot:

    Discussed dilemma with RO at appointment today. It was decided that we would add 1 additional whole breast radiation for a total of 16 and forego any boost. He indicated that since my tumor was small and ocotype was 13 indicating low recurrence, there was no reason to undergo the additional radiation. We discussed the clinical study which was the subject of the article that you referenced on Medscape. It actually fit all my criteria. Thank you. My last radiation will be March 17, 2016 (the luck of the Irish) and I will start hormonal therapy on March 18, 2016 (the beginning of a long road). Wish you luck and will check back.

    I posted this morning after my appointment, but forgot to hit submit

  • jdot
    jdot Member Posts: 25
    edited March 2016

    Thanks for your update, jnu3. I'm glad you had a productive meeting with your RO and you won't have to go through those extra boost treatments.

    I had my first radiation treatment yesterday and I was not expecting to feel heat discomfort on the first day. Is this normal? It started a couple hours after treatment and lasted a few hours. I applied aloe immediately after my treatment and a couple times after that. I will skip wearing a bra today.

  • jnu3
    jnu3 Member Posts: 76
    edited March 2016

    I had no discomfort after the first treatment. I have been using Cetaphil moisturizing cream which was one of the cream recommended. Using it after radiation, in the evening and before bed. After my 11th treatment my breast is blush to red and I am experiencing discomfort in my sternum and ribs. I would mention your feeling of heat discomfort since this was only your first treatment.

  • Bubbie1
    Bubbie1 Member Posts: 7
    edited March 2016

    jdot, congrats on getting that first treatment done and over!! I thought of you yesterday as I went in for my first as well. I haven't noticed anything from that yet, but unfortunately, the day before that first treatment, my breast got warm and more swollen that it has been for a couple of weeks, and quite painful. At my education appointment that day, I discussed this with the Onc PA and she suggested a tight sports bra and daily massage to try to get rid of the swelling and fibrosis that apparently is setting in. Of course, I can only do this until my skin gets too sensitive from the Rads, so I'm hoping I that holds off awhile. Apparently I should've been doing the massage several times a day once I healed from the surgery - she said surgeons are notorious for not giving their patients instructions like that. :(

    Hoping I can do enough now to help with any fibrosis...

    They gave me Remedy skin repair cream to use during Rads, anyone else use that?

  • Bubbie1
    Bubbie1 Member Posts: 7
    edited March 2016

    Hi jnu3. My stats are similar to yours, except my Oncotype score was 21 and my tumor was grade 3. I opted for the boost mainly for those two reasons - grade 3 tumors showed a slightly higher recurrence rate with the HF protocol in one study where a boost wasn't given. So many things to consider; we just have to make peace with our decisions and not second guess ourselves. I wish you the best, and I'm glad you came to a decision that you're comfortable with!


  • jnu3
    jnu3 Member Posts: 76
    edited March 2016

    I am happy with the decision made by myself and my RO. I just completed number 11 treatment. As I indicated, I have blush to red of my breast, intermittent deep ache but nothing so uncomfortable that I can't get through. I am noticing a little itchiness and some red spotting. I am wearing a wireless bra (Playtex and/or Bally) and when I get home from work I go braless. I wish all the best.

  • Bubbie1
    Bubbie1 Member Posts: 7
    edited March 2016

    Anyone else experienced this? I got a call this morning from my RO office - I was told not to eat or drink anything for 4 hours before each treatment from here on out. Apparently yesterday, at my first treatment, my stomach was too close to the radiation field and it needs to be as empty and small as possible so it's not affected. What??? I don't have a big stomach - I'm 5'2" and 115 pounds. My treatments are 2pm each day...so no lunch for me I guess.

  • jdot
    jdot Member Posts: 25
    edited March 2016

    Bubbie, we've made it through two treatments. I had no skin reaction today, but I also skipped wearing a bra. Since yesterday was my first treatment I thought I'd be just fine wearing my bra, but it seemed to act as an insulator, heating up that breast. So I'm done with my bra until this whole thing is over. This morning, however, I was an emotional wreck. I think the reality of this stage of treatment is hitting me, even though I'm determined to be calm and optimistic about it all. I'm already tired, but that could be from stress, not to mention the 2 1/2 hours of driving per day.

    That's surprising to learn about your stomach. I had to look for an anatomy picture to see exactly where it's positioned in relationship to the breast. Here's a good visual: http://www.cancer.gov/PublishedContent/Images/images/cancer-types/cthp/GIanatomy_upper_enlarge.jpg

    You may ask to see images of your treatment plan so your doctor can point out just where the issue is with your stomach. Today I had the opportunity to view my radiation treatment images with the physicists who designed the plan. It was extremely helpful to see exactly where the radiation hits, and more importantly where it doesn't hit. The guys were so helpful and spent a lot of time with me, and even welcomed me to stop in any time with future questions. I can't tell you how much better this made me feel.

  • jnu3
    jnu3 Member Posts: 76
    edited March 2016

    Well, RO added one additional whole breast treatment and no boost. Today was number 16 and done. Still will have the redness continue for a little while longer - I guess its like cooking in a microwave that when the timer goes off it still cooks a little longer. Now to the aromatase inhibitors.

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