I think my marriage is over
Comments
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I think I agree with ddfair. This relationship does not sound healthy at all and it seems like there has been little progress. Your husband may have behaved in a way that you don't like, but you did say you do some of the same things he does language-wise. I think one thing we really can't forget is that if this situation was reversed (a husband who became too drunk and started punching his wife) this thread would be up in arms telling the woman to leave her husband immediately. No matter how someone behaves, they do not deserve to be physically attacked (regardless of the severity).
All relationships have moments when they are tested, but overall two people should strive to make the other a better person and enrich their lives. It sounds like both of you spend far more time unhappy than happy.
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I think if there is any hope your husband needs either a new job or the woman in question needs to move on.
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I definitely agree that there is no excuse for violence. I think that it would be helpful to focus on anger management with your therapist, SoAlone. However, there is absolutely a reason for the continued discontent. The woman at work took any "joking" about being "future wife" way too far and crossed a boundary by contacting SoAlone's husband outside of work. I don't think I could let it go if I knew my husband was spending time every single work day with a woman who clearly didn't care that she was hurting someone's marriage, because if she didn't care before why would she care now? In my experience, women who go after married men tend to start out with flirting but will push it as far as the man will go, all the while claiming that they're the innocent one and can't help it if married men are attracted to them. Not to mention the fact that SoAlone's husband has made very little attempt to fix the situation (in what way has he made "great progress"???) and basically seems to be trying to juggle everyone involved so he can keep things the way they've been. Again, if it were my husband and I had a work friend who made him uncomfortable I would immediately stop the interaction in any way I could, including going so far as to find a new job if necessary, because my husband would come first.
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I normally wouldn't post to give advice on anyone's marriage, but this last post of yours kind of blew my mind. I don't know how old your kids are, very young, I assume since you mentioned a play room. There is no way kids would make remarks like that unless they were coached into dad being the "bad guy". That's seriously f'd up. If your husband engaged in this kind of conversation with your children too, then seriously, call it a day. I really hope I misread something somewhere, but if I didn't, I totally agree with ddfair.
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I just have to respond to this comment: "There is no way kids would make remarks like that unless they were coached into dad being the 'bad guy'". This is quite the assumption and absolutely not necessarily true. My personal example:
My ex-husband was abusive. Mostly verbally. An incident that happened when my younger daughter had just turned 3 is the thing that made me realize I couldn't keep living the way I was, even though I had been going to counseling for a while, as had my then-husband. I was sitting at the kitchen table with my daughter in my lap. My husband had decided, because of a magazine article he had read, that I must have cheated on him because women who travel for work were more likely to cheat. (Yes, that's ridiculous, and absolutely the truth.) He was going on and on (not yelling, but with a nasty tone and some name-calling thrown in) about how he didn't believe me, because this magazine said it was the case. I wasn't responding much, but I'm sure my body had tensed. Finally, my 3 year old yelled at my husband, "Stop it, daddy! Stop being mean to mommy!" At that point I realized that my kids were being exposed to a lot more than I realized. I thought that because neither of us was yelling that it wasn't that bad. I was wrong.
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"being mean to me by allowing this woman to get as close as she did to him".
"I should know better and dad would never leave me for someone else, especially this woman who they think is much younger than she really is"
Agreed SummerAngel, but "stop it Daddy" and those two comments above, not even close. Sure kids are aware of tension, anger, fear, etc, but you'll never convince me that little kids came up with those two comments above on their own. Someone suggested it.
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And as I suspected, I regret posting on this thread, but manipulating children is offensive to me and frankly, pisses me off. I'll keep my mouth shut now. SoAlone, we obviously come from different worlds, and it's none of my business, but I think you may regret not taking the high road. Good luck....and I don't mean that to sound sarcastic, I really wish you well. In the grand scheme of things, life could be a lot worse. If you have a need to know what's on his phone and what he's doing every minute of every day, or with whom, that's no way to live.
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The other woman is a symptom. Her moving to another job or the husband even quitting that job would not solve the fact that he is unwilling to change behaviour when that behaviour upsets someone he claims to love and be committed to. The issue of the wife 'not letting it go' would then move on to the newest example of his lack of respect or even cognition of how his behaviour affects the marriage.
He refuses to change and the wife spins her wheels focusing on the symptom (that insensitive woman) instead of the fact that the guy is unwilling to change. So wheel spinning would then move on to the next example of his shitty behaviour. It's a vicious cycle when you focus on the current symptom rather than the big picture. Dragging the kids onto this merry go round is sad. Give them a break and make a decision instead of hoping for that woman to go away or waiting for him to get a clue.
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I agree, the kids are being hurt by this and that is not okay.
I said early on that until the husband willingly and honestly acknowledges what he did was wrong there will be very little room for change here. I believe that SoAlone is having a hard time "letting it go" because he has failed to do this. I could be wrong obviously, but like Wren said this is a symptom of a problem that he will not accept responsibility for his behavior.
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First, I want to thank you all for your help and advice. I do appreciate it all.
I was originally dx in 2009 and then had a reoccurrence in 2014. So now I am considered stage 4 and will be in treatment for life. So this is really hard for me and all of us to accept.
My children are 9&10 and both of their teachers agree that they are wise beyond their years. Every teacher they have had told me that they enjoy having conversations about the books they are reading in class because they both bring to the table a different perspective on what they read. Much more mature than the other kids in their classes. So I really take offense to the comment regarding my children and me talking negatively about their father behind his back. My kids have heard enough throughout the last couple of months and in all honesty the last 2 years to know what is going on without any coaching from me. In fact, I have never bad mouthed my husband to either of them, I do the complete opposite and tell them this is on me. And they know this woman, they have seen her many times and they themselves at the last party they saw her asked me why daddy is hanging out with her so much and not me. This was before any of the fighting started.
As far as him getting another job, that option has been brought up and it just isn't feasible. For him to switch jobs would mean uprooting us to another state. That will not happen, between his elderly parents and mine, we are somewhat tied to where we are.
My violent outburst was a first. I am a yogi. I practice yoga and meditation regularly. I am usually the peace keeper in situations and try to find the silver lining in everything. So this outburst was completely out of character for me. In fact, when we (husband and I) spoke about it afterwards, he was just as shocked as me with it.
I NEVER drink more than 2 glasses of wine. I am a lightweight. I cannot drink more without falling asleep. He kept topping off my glass and I had no idea how much I really drank. For all I know I had 3 glasses and that extra glass is what pushed me over the edge.
I saw my therapist today. I told her everything, no reason to hold back to the person trying to help me. I told her I think I am losing my mind because this whole thing is not like me at all. She agreed. She also made me realize that the day this happened, he stood me up at my friend's wake. He had gone easier and didn't bother to tell me. I was upset for several reasons. My friend's moms wake was very stressful for me and brought up a lot of feelings. She told me that I am great at compartmentalizing my feelings and shelving everything until I can deal with it. This is something I shelved for 2 years. 2 years of ignoring what was going on in front of me because I was too busy fighting for my life. 2 years of focusing on keeping a "normal" life going for my kids so that they wouldn't be afraid. I had bigger issues to deal with and I dealt with them. Now I am dealing with the smaller things. And this is small in comparison.
She is a symptom, not the problem. The problem is that he felt it was ok to behave this way with this woman. He thought I was ok with all of this because I didn't say anything while I was in active treatment (chemo, radiation, surgery) Now that I am only on targeted therapies, it is easier to deal with all the issues I had to ignore.
What I think I needed to hear him say is that he is sorry and finally understands why this all bothers me. He finally admitted his actions with her were insensitive and he should have never allowed their friendship to evolve into what it became. He took responsibility. I needed him to man up and say he screwed up.
I would have never checked his phone if he wasn't constantly texting with her. If she hadn't been texting him when she knew we were on vacation. If he hadn't been texting her while we were at a family party.
At this point, the way I feel today, I don't care if she transfers or stays working for him. I need to focus on me and my family. And what is best for all of us.
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SoAlone, you are very articulate in writing about your situation. Because I don't know you in "real life", I take what you say at face value, believe your side of the story and try not to assume anything. I know children are very perceptive even when you try to pretend things are okay.
I said it before, your husband sounds like he wants his cake and eat it too. He expected you to continue to be okay with the situation and stay quiet so he could go about feeling like he had the world by the tail. Confronting the matter has upset the apple cart to,say the least. I am glad your therapist is helping you sort things out. Do you journal? That could help you sort through things, too. As well as no more drinking.
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SoAlone, I am truly sorry I offended you. I don't "know" you or your husband and I had no right to make any judgement, nor did I have any business commenting. I let my emotions get the better of me because of my own experiences and that was very wrong.
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Leggo, I don't think you need to apologize for anything.... My Brother and I went through this when we were about 10 & 11.... We rode our bicycles over to the "other woman's" house....! We just asked her "to leave Dad alone, because it was hurting our Mom"....
We LIVED with all the fighting, and tears! Dad never learned.... He wanted it all.... Mom stayed with him throughout her filing for divorce, him moving out, then moving back to California WITH the other one! Mom found out, and gave another warning.... It's either her, or me.... This went on for over 10 years!
"Birdie" came back here, and Mom moved back to be with him.... Yes, all the drinking, and all the womanizing..... but she said "She would rather have him some of the time than none at all".... Birdie eventually killed herself.
And we grew up not believing anything either one of them said.... they took it out on us.... Turmoil all of our lives....
Every marriage is different... We are just expressing what we went through.... what happens "sometimes." When a man, or a woman chooses someone else over their marriage, it takes more than just "patience"..... It takes time..... trust..... and knowing that the other person now loves you more than life itself..... If we have that, then we have it all.
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Chevy, I am so very sorry you had to live through all that. I can't imagine. I actually did have to apologize, because I've never had the issues SoAlone is dealing with. Actually quite the opposite....the way I look now, hubby is way out of my league and I'm always grateful that he hasn't given me reason to question our marriage. He's certainly not even close to perfect, but I'm not the type who would be bothered by him texting a female friend or the occasional get together (not for sex of course
Nor have I ever given him any reason to doubt my actions. I can honestly say though I do think "what if the shoe was on the other foot" a lot and thank gawd that usually brings me back to my senses. If he suddenly told me I couldn't see my male friends, I'm pretty sure I'd lose my shit. My whole experience with having children involved can be credited to my bitch MIL. She never missed an opportunity to try to break us up and when she started involving our child, I had to draw my line in the sand. I gambled....either hubby keep her sociopathic ass out of my home and she see her grandchild only while supervised or I'm out. Hubby picked me (thankfully) but seriously, could have gone either way, but at that point I didn't care if he stayed or not. Kids are so good at figuring things out. My only regret in the situation is that I didn't listen the first time when I heard "Grandma says....."
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Leggo... Isn't it amazing what some of us go through? Yes, I know we can have male friends as well as our female friends, ... But having said that, we don't go home and tell our spouse that they are his girlfriend or future wife, and other hurtful things... Can't take those things back....
Your MIL is/was very hateful.... glad you stood up to the situation, and got rid of the problem! Man, I can think of a FEW times I should have said something to my In-laws, but was afraid of what would happen, and didn't want to hurt my Husband. My FIL, in one of his drunken tirades would always admonish his Son, my Husband, because we only had little girls... "His Son wasn't man enough to have a boy... All he could do is swing an ax, and not chop logs".... (Or the other way around)..... The LAST time he said this at a family dinner, and our little Daughter's were there, I stood up, threw a towel down on the table and said "I'm not taking this anymore".... And I went sobbing into a bedroom... Everyone came in, and apologized, and blah-blah.... My In-laws finally put their tails between their legs and left!
Those people did not value little girls.... only Son's. They were never a part of our Daughter's lives... they were just "there"... Never once took them shopping, or to the park... and only once did they baby-sit. Came back to our 10 year old sitting on her Grandpa's lap, and him teaching her how to smoke... Never trusted them again.
But I tolerated them.... to keep peace in the family, so they say...... and thankfully they aren't in our lives anymore....
As we get older, we look back and think "What the hell was I THINKING?" How did I get through that, without seriously hurting someone? But we don't have to "take-it".... When someone hurts us, or ours, we need to have the strength to stand-up, think things through, and take care of the situation... Not let it take over our lives.
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thanks ladies, no need to apologize, I know everything came from a good and well meaning place.
I never had an issue with any of his female friends, just the opposite. Every female friend he made at work at one time or another had been welcomed into my home and my life. I say friend from work because that is honestly the only place he makes friends on his own. Other than that they are all mutual friends. As a mater of fact, I am very good friends with a woman he "mentored" a few years ago. I had spoken to her somewhat about this current situation. She doesn't know details and she doesn't know I am bothered by any of it but she agreed, this was not his normal behavior. I am not the jealous type.
I hate that my kids are aware of any of this. I thought they were clueless, but they sensed dads odd behavior long before I said anything. I grew up with parents fighting all the time, the last thing I wanted was for them to grow up with it. Even the small fights, I never raised my voice in front of them.
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SoAlone, not to excuse your DH's bad behavior but to give another perspective my DH went on a many year tear of bad behavior trying to get away from the truth of our youngest child's diagnosis. Son got very ill at age 7 months leaving him with brain damage and seizures. We had hope he would recover enough to walk and talk. By age 3 and half it was obvious that the rare seizure disorder he acquired from the brain injury was continuing to cause more problems. My husband spent several years running from the problem and nearly destroyed all of us in the process. It wasn't until he realized what he was doing and accepted that no matter what he couldn't run away from the truth. We both hurt each other deeply in the process. It took a long time but our marriage is better than ever now. The point I am making is maybe this one is different because he feels helpless to fix this situation with your diagnosis. Again, he's going to need to understand he can't run away from the truth. Hopefully he'll get it before he does irreparable damage.
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Molly, I am so sorry you had to go through this along with your son's diagnosis. I can't even imagine how hard that was on you. In the last few discussions I had with him, he finally admitted the "truth" and that is what I needed to hear from him. Once he came out and said what I have been saying all along without the denials and deflecting, I think I was able to let go. I haven't brought it up in the last few days, typically Friday nights is when the fireworks were going off. I needed him to see what I was seeing and to understand how hurtful his actions have been.
He cannot control her working for him. He made that happen. Now all we can do is wait for her to move forward on and with her career. I know that when she transfers, she will start the texting again to make sure he doesn't forget about her if a position comes up in his or one of his friends depts. I told him I will be ok with that as long as his responses to her are the same as the responses he gives to his other friends looking to transfer, which is, yes, I know you want to move as soon as I hear of something I will let you know. He should have that as an automatic response in his texts, lol.
After last weekend's outburst, on both of our parts, he has been more loving and trying harder than ever to make me feel like I am the most important person in the world. We are slowly moving towards the partnership we once had. Baby steps, but I feel like we both are finally on the same page once again.
I still regret my children becoming involved, but maybe that is what it took. Their innocent view on what was going on made us both realize how childish we have become.
For now, I will not go to his office for any reason. I needed to drop off his suit which he forgot to take with him, so I told him to meet me on the corner. He wanted me to come in, but I just said it is better I don't. I haven't asked about his day at work, other than, how was your day? No probing questions. I told him i am going to sign up for some adult ed classes just to keep myself busy and my mind focused on other things. I need to go back to the gym, finally got the approval from my BS ( had recent surgery and she told me to take it easy for a couple months). I think when all this falls into place, we will both be in a better place mentally and physically. I need to go back to my former life.
His former colleague which he helped get into a position much higher than his said that it is typical for stupid younger women to play this game in their workplace. She said if she had played this game, she would have risen to her current position much sooner, but she would not have been respected by anyone. She is proud of how she came to be and she is grateful for all the help my husband had given her. Women like this that he has befriended make me proud of his choice of friends. So, you see, I am not afraid of him having female friends. I love this part of him that wants to level out the playing field for women. He just needs to know that not all of these women look out for his best interests and that they don't care about how their behavior will effect him or his family.
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I am a family law (divorce) paralegal. Could I just say none of us should be telling someone we don't know to divorce her husband? Aside from encouraging people having problems to seek counseling, together or alone, we can empathize, but stop telling someone what to do when we are not intimately familiar with the parties and both sides of the story
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We are not telling SoAlone what to do Melissa.... Just telling her what some of us went through!
Maybe you can handle this in a more professional way.....
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I'm glad things are slowly working themselves out SoAlone. Hubby sounds like a pretty good guy. Not all men would make an effort.
Chevy, isn't it the truth? Marriages are hard enough, never mind throwing some bat-shit crazy in-laws into the mix. Mine passed by my second child. Awful to say....but our peace and happiness increased a hundred fold after that. I can't think of anything sadder than someone who causes so much chaos that nobody misses them when they're gone.
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Happy to read things are going in the right direction. Looks like you two will be just fine. As you said, baby steps. And what you are doing for yourself is great and much needed with looking into adult ed and building yourself back up again. Great job!
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Regarding the kids knowing: we'd like to shield our kids from unpleasant things, but its not always realistic and we are all imperfect. The upside of that is that your kids will see the two of you working things out, over time. They will see the forgiveness and the effort and emphasis placed on working through problems and not running away or splitting up because of them. That's not a bad lesson to observe and learn from.
My husband and I have one adult son. We had our share of hollering fights over the years as our son grew up. For the most part, we were/are a functional family, but we did run into difficulties from time to time. I feel that's pretty normal.Some of our fights occurred in front of our son. We never put him in the middle of any fights, tho. We never asked him to take sides, or involve him in our differences between us two. So, I don't really have any guilt about it. He's a well adjusted young man. I'm not a perfect parent. That's okay
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DiveneMrsM, you give me hope and encouragement that we will get through this.
Up until now, we have spoiled our children and they have never seen or heard us fight. I think 10 years is a long time to not raise our voices in front of them. I think they need to see that life isn't always happy and go lucky, people argue and get mad and know how to make up and move forward. Up till now they have had an unrealistic view of the world. The world isn't perfect. Even with BC, I have tried to shield them as much as humanly possible.
We are trying. A couple of weeks ago if he had hung up on me because someone walked into his office, I would have been suspicious. Just now he hung up because he had a visitor and I really don't care who it is. I have made it very clear that I will not tolerate her being in our lives and I want to believe he is on the same page.
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Sad to say I am back. He walked out again this evening and I don't care anymore. What happened was for a while now, when he gets a text, he covers his phone with his hand so I can't see it. I didn't really pay attention to this and it didn't bother me until this weekend (Easter Sunday to be exact). So, I don't want to mention anything over the weekend because of the holiday and I didn't want another holiday ruined because of this. I have to note, we have been getting along beautifully for the last couple weeks. Anyway, today we spent a lovely morning together and he did it again, but I didn't want to start before he goes to work. So when he came home, he was in a really bad mood, didn't really want to talk to me to tell me what is going on. So I couldn't hold it in. I calmly asked him if he was aware of this habit he has started with the phone. I calmly explained how it looks like he is being secretive and it is bothering me. I explained that I didn't want to hold this in until I exploded, that I thought it would be better to talk about it when I wasn't mad and I was giving him the benefit of the doubt that he was unaware of his behavior. Well, that didn't go well. He stormed out! Yelling about I don't even know what. Temper tantrum like a 5 year old. When he came back, I asked him what that was all about.He said this could have waited for another day when he wasn't in such a bad mood.
You know what, I have been a fool to think that this was all about some woman. It isn't. It is a complete lack of respect for me and my feelings. I have bitten my tongue and allowed him to say and do whatever he wanted and I refuse to allow this to continue.
He went to sleep in the kids play room again as if that was supposed to bother me. I have to say, I think I am ok with him leaving at this point. If he can storm out of here because I asked him a question, without accusation, without attacking, just speaking in a normal tone and using words I carefully chose to not sound like I am accusing him, then he can go and do whatever he wants. I am emotionally detaching myself.
Did I mention he blatantly lied to my face? Over the weekend the 'other woman' texted him to tell him a co-workers parent passed away. I saw the text only because I was napping and his phone was on the night stand next to me. So I didn't say anything about it, expecting him to mention it at some point during the weekend, which he didn't. This evening when he came home in this foul mood, he told me about the passing of this persons parent. I said my condolences and said to him, when did you find this out? He looked me straight in the eye and said this morning when he arrived at work. Now, was there any reason at all to lie about this? I don't think so. If he could so easily lie about something like this, something that would have no consequence to our marriage, how can i trust him about big issues that matter?
When he walked out the kids blamed me! They wanted to know why I am upsetting him so much and that I need to stop. I was baffled! Up until now I have been taking more than partial blame because I didn't want them thinking he was a complete ass. I didn't want anyone accusing me of just telling them my side of the story. So, I explained what happened so that they can see what is really going on. I hated doing it, but i hate always taking the blame.
I am so done here. Thanks for letting me vent.
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Big hugs SoAlone. I'm sorry he's the way he is but it doesn't sound like this is getting much better for the long haul and it's affecting the kids whether or not they hear stuff. My parents divorced after 17 years. While sure it's sad, me at 17 and bro at 8, it eventually became a relief for us. They both remained very loving to us which was key. Wishing you the best in whatever you decide. This is such crap from him, imo. :X
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yes I agree it might be a relief for the kids to divorce. Also you need to have an enjoyable life and not worry so much.
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SoAlone, I am so sorry that the situation does not seem to be improving for you and your husband. You are seeing him fall back into old patterns with the texting and you're not going to put up with it, and I agree that you shouldn't. Maybe he was thinking it would all blow over and he could go back to his old ways. I have to say, there does seem to be too many times when you say, "dh was in a bad mood again"....he either woke up that way, or came home from work that way, or something happened and it put him in a bad mood. He sounds very moody, too moody.
Your children are hoping things work out. When it doesn't, in their simplistic way, they look for the bad guy. They are hoping you'll just say you're sorry to your husband and it will all be okay for them. Life is much more complicated than that. It's good that you explained the situation to them because you do not have to take the fall for this.
It seems you are viewing your husband through a different lens these days and don't like what you see. You are in my thoughts as you continue to sort this out.
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This might sound corny but I like Dr Phil's words "The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior" - thus your husband falling back into his old ways. Good luck to you dear.
Amy
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Feel like a broken record with all the ups and downs I have been experiencing lately. We talked and came to some conclusions. He agreed he has been an ass. He claimed he didn't realize how disrespectful he has been acting toward me. He apologized. We talked some more and are trying to give this one more shot before making any life altering decisions. So, we have been getting along well. He rec'd a new phone from work and I thought he wouldn't give me the passcode, but the day he came home with it and showed me the new phone, he also showed me his passcode. That was a huge sign for me that he is being serious about moving forward. My therapist thinks that he is trying his best at moving forward and I need to cut him some slack. I need to let go and not be so hard on him and reminding him daily of his mess up. Another big sign to me that he is trying to work on this is that his colleagues were getting together for dinner last week. It was something they had been planning for weeks. I was not invited in the initial planning. When they confirmed their date, I said great because I had plans with my friends that evening. A couple days before that night, he called me from work and invited me to join them. So I explained I already had plans, he said that he would drop me off with my friends or tag along if I would allow it, but it was important to him that I join him. We had a lovely evening with his friends and then mine. His friends from work were all very pleasant and I got the impression that none of them are fond of the "other woman". Of course I didn't ask about her or mention her.
I am cautiously optimistic at this point in time. But I am willing to give it one more try. For the sake of my children, my mom and his mom.
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