Femara/tamoxifen
just curious - how much better are AI s than tamoxifen? I am on tamoxifen for 5 years and then my onc will switch me to femara for 5 years. My onc said AI s are about 15% better - that's a lot. I thought I read on BCO that the benefit of an AI is only 1-2 percent over tamoxifen. So I'm confused. I have no side effects with tamoxifen except some hot flashes. My onc also said I could stay on tamoxifen for 10 years or go back to it if I can't tolerate the AI s. Thoughts?
Nancy
Comments
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Nancy - My onc said 40 - 50% for tamoxifen, 50 -70% for AI so 15% sounds about right to me. I sure have been seeing a lot of oncs leaving their patients on T after menopause though. Maybe there's been a study I missed. I tried Femara but went back to Tamoxifen.
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Hi Jill - thanks for the info. I still have plenty of time to decide and my onc is perfectly fine if I wanted to stay on tamoxifen for 10 years. Decisions decisions. Hope all is well out there on the farm lol
Nancy
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I'm close to menopause at 51. Mom went into it at 52 so 9 months I'm 52. Saw my onc today and started talking about such meds. I have till May before I need to go on as I still have 6 weeks of chemo and 5-6 weeks of rads left with 3 weeks in between. She gave me 3 choices:
Tamox
Remove ovaries
A new study where you get a shot a month + an AI. This she says is better than tamox. Since I started chemo with a period and we don't know when I'm really going to be in menopause since it could just be a side effect of chemo that this combo lowers my chances of recurrence best since I can't go on AI yet. I didn't catch what the shot is as it's far enough away but I'm pretty sure I'll go this route.
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AIs don’t cause blood clots or uterine cancer, and have a slightly lower incidence of hot flashes than tamoxifen. But they do weaken bones, and they’re likelier to cause bone & joint pain, thin hair, and dry skin. Tamoxifen doesn’t weaken bones--it strengthens them; but it can cause uterine cancer (and after prophy hysterectomy, possibly retroperitoneal cancer instead), blood clots and cause or accelerate ripening of cataracts. They work in different ways--tamoxifen, to put it simplistically, “clogs” the tumor’s estrogen receptors so it can’t get the estrogen your body still makes (by ovaries if premenopausal, or fat cells & adrenals if postmenopausal). So your body in general isn’t as deprived of estrogen as it is with AIs. AIs prevent the enzyme aromatase from completing the process of converting the androgens produced by the fat cells & adrenals into estrogen. Both drugs starve the tumor cells of estrogen--tamox by “wiring the tumor’s jaws shut” and AIs by "cleaning out & padlocking the fridge.” Both drugs work in premenopausal women, but AIs deprive the body of estrogen--which can be too abrupt a transition into menopause for younger women. OTOH, AIs are more effective in postmenopausal women because the estrogen depletion isn’t as abrupt in women whose levels are already low, but it’s more complete; it also doesn’t accelerate the cardiovascular problems of older women.
One other consideration--AIs have fewer drug interactions, especially with antidepressants. Dopamine agonists with “transparent” SE profiles (i.e., fewer side effects) like bupropion are okay with AIs, as are SSRIs, SNRIs and tricyclics. But bupropion and most SSRIs & SNRIs (except Effexor) inhibit the enzyme pathway by which tamoxifen blocks estrogen receptors. Since not everyone responds to the same antidepressant in the same way and it often takes trying two or three to find one that works (I’m a veteran of this stuff), if you already have or are prone to depression and find yourself developing it during your cancer “journey," you have more pharmacological wiggle room if you take an AI. (Or so my shrink explained).
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Nancy- My guess is the confusion regarding percentages is probably related to the absolute vs relative benefit. The benefit for me would be in the single digits. The low single digits at that. But then taking Tamoxifen for 5 years only benefits me by 10%. It may be possible for me to improve this 10% by switching to an AI or continuing on Tamoxifen for a total of 10 years. Perhaps 2%? I'd have to re-read the studies. I find it very frustrating when they keeping reporting studies showing these small percentage gains. I guess I should be glad that my numbers are this good.
Your numbers are similar to mine. If your MO means 15% of 10%, that would be 1.5%(absolute benefit).
I see my MO next week. He seldom gives me percentages. He uses words like "slightly better" & says he likes give patients the maximum benefit if possible & they agree to it & tolerate it...... I guess I could ask for percentages instead of always trying to figure that out on my own.
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