On My Way to Lymphedema?
Hi,
Just had a surveillance appointment with my LPT and she thinks I may be showing early signs of lymphedema. I have two questions for those of you who are much more knowledgeable on this topic than I am. Before I get to my questions, here is some background information.
Jan 2015 - BMX with 4 nodes removed from right (dominant) side. Clear nodes, but 2nd breast cancer found on left side, . Immediately post surgery, had some severe carpal tunnel issues which resolved in a few months. On Tamoxifen since Feb. 2015
June - October 2015 - Had 3 lymphedema surveillance visits which showed right arm limb volume 3%, 2% and 4% higher than left arm
Jan. 2016 - Limb volume measurement shows right arm is now 6% larger than left arm. LPT is particularly concerned because the increased volume is most noticeable in the forearm and she said in her experience, that is the area of the arm where lymphedema most often begins. She also tested my grip strength and said my right hand result is showing decreased grip which is indicative of carpal tunnel. She is concerned that the carpal tunnel could be causing swelling and drainage issues.
General Info - I did not have radiation or chemo. My BMI is between 21 and 22
So here are my questions:
1. Based on the above information and particularly the increase in right limb volume, does it appear I'm on the path to lyphedema? Is it typically a gradual increase in limb volume until you reach a threshold where you are officially diagnosed?
2. I know I read that lymphedema may be a risk factor for carpal tunnel, but is the reverse true? If I have an underlying carpal tunnel issue (first started getting CTS symptoms 2-3 years ago, but they have been very minor except for the period of time right after BMX), is that a risk factor for lymphedema. Likewise, does having carpal tunnel make lymphedema worse?
Thanks in advance for any information you can provide.
Comments
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Hello, fralaliso,
I'm glad your therapist is monitoring this, and I hope she's a fully-qualified lymphedema therapist who can start treating it. Early treatment makes it easier to manage and control going forward. There's no certain measurement where a diagnosis is assigned to it. In fact, you can have early-stage lymphedema with no visible or measurable swelling (it's called pre-clinical lymphedema). That's because there can be 30% more fluid than normal in your arm (or other area) before it becomes measurable. Early signs of lymphedema might include heaviness or aching or just a "funny" feeling in the arm. So, really good that you've caught this early!
Carpal tunnel could certainly be a risk factor for lymphedema. Any pain draws lymph fluid to the area--it's part of your body's emergency response to any pain or injury. With a lymph system compromised by surgery and node removal, the extra fluid can trigger lymphedema as the damaged system struggles (unsuccessfully!) with the increased fluid accumulation.
Having carpal tunnel may make lymphedema worse, depending on the pain level and how much energy you're willing to put in to control it. But that's probably an individual issue, as we're all different.
Do get help soon. Here's information on lymphedema treatment:
http://www.stepup-speakout.org/treatments_for_lymp...
Please tell us how we can help!
Gentle hugs,
Binney -
I met with the LE specialist at Evanston Hosp. (Dr.J.L. Feldman, world-renowned) last week. He measured both arms & wrists and found no increase from the pre-op measurements my BS’ nurse took as baselines for the prophylactic compression sleeve & gauntlet she ordered me to wear for exercise and flights >4hr. He said from measurements that it doesn’t appear I have arm LE (the diff. bet. R & L is attributable to my being a “rightie”); but from symptoms I described (finger swelling during a couple of 8-hr flights while wearing the compression stuff, arm stiffness and fullness while at >1 mi. high in Taormina, Sicily, and forearm soreness and a palpable knot for a few weeks before & during my trip upon extension & rotation--the latter indicative of mild temporary cording) he diagnosed pre-clinical LE so that Medicare would pay for my PT sessions and my supplement would cover some of the co-pay for the glove he prescribed in lieu of the gauntlet. He also said my giant breast seroma is just a seroma, aggravated by radiation. I had 2 sentinel nodes and 2 “tag-along” nodes biopsied, all negative and none w/in the radiation field.
Had my first LE therapy session today, during which I was taught MLD for both arm and breast--even though the seroma is not LE, it is still lymph fluid which might be “trained” to drain away gradually and reduce the seroma to manageable proportions (unfortunately, I was also ordered to replace my bras with ones a band and a cup size bigger, to ease pressure on the tissues--and to keep wearing bras or support camis for sleep. I noticed a small painless bruise on my forearm, in the same spot as the prior cording symptoms, though I don’t recall bumping or otherwise injuring the forearm. The LE therapist says that’s usually a souvenir of cording having suddenly resolved itself--some patients feel a “popping” though I didn’t. She also told me to do MLD on both sides, since part of the goal is to shift fluid to the “good” (i.e., non-surgical) side for eventual excretion--and my groin as well as upper & lower abs, which might be almost as much fluid as fat.
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Hi Binney,
Thanks so much for taking the time to respond. Your information was helpful.
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fralaliso, the first place my arm swelled was my forearm, too. And I have ulnar nerve problems instead of carpal tunnel, but it's been a huge chicken and egg issue re: what incites what. For me, usually from the nerve pain causes swelling, but sometimes a puffy arm itself causes pain. It is a challenge.
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Thanks for the info. Floaton. I have to say after spending some time today on step-up speak-out.org today, I'm a bit intimidated. Just looking at the wrapping pictures makes me nervous. I'm a total klutz when I try to do anything with my left hand. For some reason, this potential lymphedema diagnosis is hitting me a bit harder than my cancer diagnosis did. My hat is off to all of you ladies who deal with this so well every day. I have a lot to learn from you.
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fralallso, I sure hear you on that. This is a difficult diagnosis, for sure, but please know it gets better--honest! As for being a klutz--this is a steep learning curve and can be frustrating at first. Practice makes it possible. Give yourself room to take this in. You can do it! Tell us how we can help.
Here's an article about the emotional challenges of lymphedema that has helped a lot of the ladies here:
http://www.stepup-speakout.org/patoconnorcopng.htm
Go easy on yourself--gentle hugs,
Binney -
Fralaliso, the good news is you're about to get a whole lot better with your left hand
! I was very right handed too before this, and am (2 years in) now much better with my left hand. It is a learning curve, but as Binney said, it does get better. Not to say I don't still have my moments (and I do!), but having tools like finally finding a sleeve/glove that fits and does more help than harm (it can be a real process, but worth the effort), and knowing how to wrap actually makes things seem at least a little less out of your control. Everyone is different, but for me one of the best things I've done for my le was start an exercise program (with a sleeve/glove and compression bra!) through my local hospital's pt department. They were awesome with the low weight and slow progression weight lifting that's really helped me with day to day swelling. I've also recently started using a rebounder and that seems to help some too. Others here love swimming or tai chi. Some of us do things that make others cringe (me included!) but work for us. There are ways to deal with this, but it is a process, and I agree, it is a really tough diagnosis to take.
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Fralaliso, I have LE in my strongly dominant left arm and hand. And I do a lot of typing/writing for work. Wrapping is not as hard and intimidating as the websites make it look. It's a cosmic nuisance, to be sure, but it does work, to the point that I don't have to do it most of the time!
I took a break from wrapping/sleeve to heal from radiation (kept going with the glove) and am about to go back. I'll be honest and say I'm not always compliant as when I'm working I must have full range of motion in order to type. So I'll just leave the stuff off when I work--freelance so I set my own hours--and put it back on later.
So far, so good. But the best and most important thing, as ChiSandy suggests, is to find a lymphedema specialist who knows his or her stuff and whom you're comfortable with. Knowledge is power! And good luck.
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I suddenly developed "carpal Tunnel" in my LE side about 8 months after I developed LE. Whether it was there all along, and the LE pushed it over the edge,,,, or the LE caused it,,, no one can tell me. One doctor says yes, the swelling caused it, but my LE therapist doesn't think so.
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Thanks for all the additional information, it's very helpful! I would love your opinions on any treatment that I should be starting right now. My recent limb volume difference was 6% and my LE therapist (she has the CLT-LANA designation and does seem to know her stuff) wants me to see an orthopedist about my carpal tunnel. She also wants me to come back to her in 3 mos for another surveillance check. That will also be about 2 weeks before I'm scheduled to fly on a business trip and she definitely wants to assess me before I fly. My question to all of you is - At this stage, is there more that should be done? Should she be starting to treat me with MLD, wrapping, etc? Or is it reasonable to wait to see what the next surveillance shows? I've read a couple places that limb volume difference of 10% is when treatment is started, but I'm not sure that information is reliable.
So much to learn!
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I actually never had limb volume done, but I was taught MLD right from the start and she does it to me every time I go to see her.
Try to see a hand surgeon about the carpal tunnel if that is an option. You will probably start with a splint, especially at night,, just be careful that the splint isn't too tight that it affected the lymph flow. That was a problem for me,,, to get the splint where the wrist won't bend but not too tight to affect the LE.
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