Biopsy tomorrow, looking for greater understanding before app

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Sturbaj1
Sturbaj1 Member Posts: 3
edited December 2015 in Waiting for Test Results

I never expected to be seeking information following my first Mammo. Since then I went for a diagnostic mammo and ultrasound, and go in for biopsy tomorrow, following a consultation with a surgical oncologist tomorrow. Here is what I have, and I just would like to be better informed and understand what to ask:

Birads 4, persistent asymmetry, located laterally at 5:00 position, 5 cm from nipple ill defined hypoechoic region, measuring 18mm margins ill defined, and posterior acoustic shadowing is seen. Fatty replaced lymph nodes are noted incidentally in the axilla.

This means nothing to me and when they ask me if I have questions, I don't even know where to begin! I'm trying to remain calm, but this is testing my core. I appreciate any and all insight you might offer. Thank you! J

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  • Hopeful82014
    Hopeful82014 Member Posts: 3,480
    edited November 2015
    I'm sorry you're going through this.

    I can't decipher that for you enough for you to rely on. I would strongly advise you to get in the habit of asking, in effect, 'what dies that mean - and what does it imply FOR ME?'

    Don' let them leave the room until your questions are answered. If you can get someone to go with you tomorrow to advocate on your behalf that would be very helpful.

    Good luck tomorrow.
  • ChiSandy
    ChiSandy Member Posts: 12,133
    edited November 2015

    “Persistent asymmetry" means that no matter how hard your breast was compressed in the mammography machine and no matter how the radiologist tried to manipulate the ultrasound probe, the “asymmetry" (i.e., the thing they noticed from your screening mammo that isn't present in your other breast) won't distort or go away, and is visible from several angles.

    “Laterally at 5:00...5 cm from nipple" means it's toward the lower outside of your left breast, about 2-1/2 to 3" from your nipple. 18 mm, or 1.8 cm, is about 3/4 of an inch, or a tad smaller than a thumbnail.

    “Margins ill-defined" means that it doesn't have a clear border on imaging but rather looks irregular (and its true shape probably can't be known until it's been removed). It means it's hard to tell just by imaging where it ends and the surrounding breast tissue begins,

    “Hypoechoic" means that the ultrasound waves don't bounce back off it very strongly, so the blob looks darker compared to its surroundings (“hyperechoic" is completely solid and looks lighter because the ultrasound waves bounce back very strongly, and “anechoic" looks completely dark because it absorbs the ultrasound waves,"); and “posterior acoustic shadowing" means that it casts a shadow behind it. It's usually characteristic of a malignant mass, but sometimes a benign mass can exhibit it too.

    The fact that it's ill-defined, hypoechoic and casts a shadow means that though it bears some hallmarks of a malignancy they can't state with absolute certainty whether it's malignant or benign, nor what size it truly is---it is just as likely that the actual dimensions might include the shadow and be smaller than estimated, as it is that it might be larger.

    “Fatty replaced lymph nodes in the axilla" means that tissue in some of the lymph nodes in your armpit seems to have been replaced by fat...which is normal as we age; “noted incidentally" means it wasn't the reason for doing the imaging, nor something they were looking for, but they saw it anyway.

    Does the report mention a BIRADS score? (Probably 4)? It means that the anomaly they saw bears some but not all characteristics of a malignant tumor and might in fact be benign--so the only way to tell is by doing a biopsy. The biopsy would show the type of cells (and if cancerous, what type of breast cancer), how fast or slowly they're dividing (if at all) and how hard or easy it is to tell them apart from any normal cells; and if malignant, whether they have hormone receptors and overexpress a protein called HER2-neu. All those would help determine what to do next, and down the line. But its true size can't be determined until it's out.

    But don't put the cart before the horse: you should know that 80% of these turn out benign.

  • Sturbaj1
    Sturbaj1 Member Posts: 3
    edited November 2015

    Thank you for the quick responses. They certainly help me understand a little more in preparation for tomorrow's consult and biopsy.

  • So-Oly
    So-Oly Member Posts: 4
    edited November 2015

    Dear Sturbaj1,

    Just sending you my support and care remotely. Good luck tomorrow and just remember to breathe. Make some kind of plan for after to sit down with someone you trust and just try to process. (If you can) You may find yourself feeling like you are in a surreal world or in slow motion. You may cry, it's ok. This in my personal opinion is normal. This is a game of one foot in front of the other, get support and extra eyes and ears and let your self process. Hugs! I'll look for you *;).

  • windingshores
    windingshores Member Posts: 704
    edited November 2015

    It might be benign. If it isn't, it is normal to lose it a little. I started shaking so badly on the table when they told me that my diagnostic mammo and ultrasound looked malignant, that I had to ask the fellow observing to hold me down for the biopsy. I also got a small amount of Klonopin for the first few nights. This did not signify anything about my later coping, which was fine. We seem to soldier through once we know what's up.

    The Internet can be upsetting until you know exactly what you are dealing with, so don't worry about knowing a lot until you know details. Then the Internet, used carefully (be aware a lot of info is old) can help with decisions. I bought some books to rely on for an overview. You can often get test results through patient portals and can look up what they mean or people will help you here.

    Good luck today!


  • Sturbaj1
    Sturbaj1 Member Posts: 3
    edited November 2015

    Thank you all! Had the biopsy today, hope to know something by Friday

  • 614
    614 Member Posts: 851
    edited November 2015

    Good luck and hugs.

    Thanks for the comprehensive post, ChiSandy.

  • 614
    614 Member Posts: 851
    edited November 2015


    Dear ChiSandy:

    Can you clarify what you wrote about hypoechoic.  Is hypoechoic generally indicative of a malignancy?  You also included other terms so I am not sure which terminology may be malignant.  (I realize that nothing is absolute.)

    Dear Sturbaj:

    Good luck.  I hope that you find out your results soon and that they are benign.

  • ChiSandy
    ChiSandy Member Posts: 12,133
    edited November 2015

    When you get an ultrasound, the probe that they move around on your skin sends out very short sound waves. It “sees” what’s there by differences in how those sound waves are reflected back to the probe (“echo”). Normal tissue is what’s called “echoic” or “hyperechoic,” which means that they strongly bounce the waves back to the probe. On the ultrasound screen (and print) they look light-colored (the opposite of the way they looked on your mammo, which is to say they weren’t very visible if at all). A solid lesion, whether benign or malignant, tends to be “hypoechoic,” which means it doesn’t strongly reflect the sound waves back and looks darker on the screen. Malignant lesions tend to be hypoechoic or have some hypoechoic areas, but the reverse isn’t necessarily true--so are many benign lesions such as benign nodules and fibroadenomas. Biopsy is usually the only way to tell the difference, especially If the borders are only somewhat irregular.

  • 614
    614 Member Posts: 851
    edited November 2015


    Dear ChiSandy:

    Thanks.  I thought that is what you meant. 

    I had a biopsy on Monday for an area that was seen on my ultrasound as being hypoechoic with shadowing.  However, the area is a "non-mass".  This area was seen 6 months ago on my MRI and I chose to wait and watch for 6 months. (It turns out that it would not have been able to be biopsied 6 months ago anyway.)  My doctors feel that this suspicious area is due to my surgery and/or radiation rather than this being a malignancy.  I am confident that it is benign and I am not worried about it.  I will find out the results of my biopsy hopefully, tomorrow.

    I appreciate all of your help and input.

    Thanks again to everyone here.

  • 614
    614 Member Posts: 851
    edited December 2015

    It turns out that I have ALH with Focal Microcalcifications - benign.

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