Hi, using only natural treatments, am done with Western path
Hello,,
Been following these posts for a while and thought I would post too. I had bc "treatment " It was brutal, and never made me feel any safer. That is why I use natural substances, in a nut shell the bc industry standards have caused huge problems that I am angry about not having full disclosure by the onco or rad docs. It would be different if I trusted those md's, they lied too many times for me to believe them. There are those studies out of Johns Hopkins and McGill University in Canada where a huge number of oncologists, 90%.?? saying they don't want chemo. WHAT? ? If those docs don't want it themselves, then that doesn't make feel better or safer having been guilted into doing those things.
That said, here is a partial list of what I take or do to stay well. I do ground flax daily. I also take iodine in a drop form from Scientific Botanicals. I just take one drop daily. I take Turkey Tail and eat Shitake and Maitake mushrooms several times per week. I take Brazilian Bee Propolis daily for the last few months. I take Meriva Curcumin by Thorne daily. This really keeps my level of inflammation down. My CRP was 0.38, quite low.I take 20mg of Melatonin every night. I use Co Q10, also by Thorne. I get IV VITAMIN C the day after my reconstruction surgeries, and also if I get an infection after surgery I get it then too. I also get it monthly, as my finances allow for cancerprevention/REMISSION maintenance. Look up this info about that. I don't have any luck posting links here using my tablet, as my laptop died recently. Here is the name of the article: INTRAVENOUSLY ADMINISTERED VITAMIN C AS CANCER THERAPY, 3 CASE STUDIES. There are a lot of other studies about IV vitamin C, I just like that one because 2 of the 3 people studied had aggressive c that was "supposed to kill them and didn't. It is basically about hope.
Now let me say that if women feel like they will do best doing the more traditional bc therapies, then that is great. It just isn't the right path for me, quality of life is extremely important to me. Each person has to decide what is best for themselves.
Comments
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How did you arrive at these alternatives? Are you seeing a holistic practitioner? And I wish you well on your path
Christine
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Hi Christine,
I was seeing an Oncology trained Naturopath. I was started byher on several different complementary treatments while I was "treated". They really helped then. I have become an excellent researcher, as so many of us have,forced by necessity. Every thing I do has to meet a research driven criteria of benefiting my goal of low inflammation, and anticancer in some way.
What are you doing for yourself? I am also a somewhat athlete and plan to take up rowing as well bike and continue hiking with my dog. Little harder lately to get in dailywalks because kids in school and working 3 days per week. I also forgot to mention that I take 8000 IU of Vitamin D3 and Vitamin K2 in a in a dropper daily. . I think Vitamin D levels should be high, in the 70 -90 range, not in the barely adequate range of 30 to 50 decreed acceptable by western medicine. That lower Vit D level is not much beyond preventing rickets in children and osteomalacia in adults, it it certainly not optimal for health. My Vitamin D level is 58, still too low so I am working to improve that. Vitamin K2 is crucially important when paired with Vitamin D, and Calcium. Vitamin K2 is like an usher, escorting, under the direction of Vitamin D, calcium into the bones (prevention of osteoporosis ) instead of into the arteries ( increasing risk of atherosclerosis and heart disease).
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macb04,
First let me say that I am glad that you have found something that you have faith in and is keeping you well. In the end, that's what matters.
Let me clarify your comment on the McGill survey. It was done in 1986 and involved only 118 doctors, so it was far from huge. They were asked about one type of chemo, cisplatiin. Cisplatiin was fairly new at the time, with limited evidence to support it's use for non-small cell lung cancer. The study isoften referenced , and referenced incorrectly. In the end, it's a 29 year old survey, dealing with one chemo drug for one type of cancer with responses from 118 oncologists.
Mayyou continue to thrive.
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mac
Do you mind sharing your diagnosis? What treatment do they want you to take?
I, myself, would love love love to go the alternate route as I do research a lot also, and I do
believe it can be effective.BUT I am too scared to go that route. However, I am hoping that I can do some if not all alternative avenues also. There is a woman on the BCO that is 15 years out from Stage 4 cancer. She has done regular meds with alternative.
Would like to discuss with you further. Thanks
Rosieo
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Hello Rosieo,
Was stage 3a, ILC, I won't dignify what they did to me with the label treatment, I call it butchery, poisoning with toxic, carcinogenic chemicals and frying with rads. It is abuse, pure and simple, with a huge profit for the drug/cancer industry at the expense of people's safety, health and lives. I think people live despite these "treatments ",not because of them. I don't feel safer, I don't feel lucky or saved. If other people feel better doing the traditional mainstream bc path that is ok for them, just not for me. I did it and will not do those things to my body again in pursuit of life at any cost.
I was also on tamoxifen for 9 miserable months. I developed terrible insomnia and Mount Vesuvius like rages out of no where. I would yell at my children and husband like a maniac. I finally quit it, the final straw was when I made my then 8 year old cry.
I continue to pursue good health with passion and creativity. Everything I take has to meet my research driven criteria of lowering inflammation and having potential anticancer activity . If you want to combine regular meds with alternative there are oncology trained Naturopaths out there who know how to guide you either way.
I can give you more details. There is a lot to it. Let me know if there is more I can help you with, you can PM me too. It is scary for sure to try the alternative /complementary approach without support, that is why I think this site is great for letting us help each other.
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Macb04
I'm stage 4 apparently with hormonal driven cancer so chemo wouldn't have worked so well for me anyway so I'm on Tamoxifen ... Cut one of my pills in half last night also found out it is listed on the American cancer society's webpage as a carcinogen really? I will try anything else other than the traditional route. Exercise is huge I think along with all the other dietary things one can do. We shall see but when I hear that what is written at the bottom of death certificates for most cancer patients is complications from chemotherapy that did it for me. This line of thinking is not to popular however.
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macb04,
Alternative cancer treatments are not well received here on BCO. Many of the natural girls have left or stopped posting. I mostly come here and read the posts without judgement or ridicule but I'm saddened when I read of all the chemo, surgery, and altering of hormones that nearly everyone is rx'ed. My gut said NO THANX.
I was scheduled for a mx when my home was flooded (5 feet of dirty smelly water) and I had to cancel at the last minute b/c I didn't want to come home from the surgery to all that work and bacteria that HAD to be cleaned..........a blessing in disguise! I stated to think about all the recommended tx's, Mx, complete LND, ACT chemo, Rads, hormone tx. for starters. If the drs gave me a better chance of the tx killing the left over cancer cells I would have jumped on the wagon happily. I could not subject myself to it and I'm very comfortable with my choice. I did have a Lx which 2 surgeons said was impossible, and rads and a mammo every 6 months. I just had my 4 year anniversary and I'm still NED???? My oncodx score was 28.
Better nutrition, supplements, mindful meditation, controlling my glucose, kicking negative people to the curb, although I have let them back into my life, stress free.
I still have doubts about not using tamox or AI's but I care about the small amount estro I have left. My onco told me it is the most effective tx but I cannot do that to my system. I never even tried it. It's not the s/e that bother me but the systemic damage it can do. I lied to her for 3 years about taking tamox and now I'm not sure if she will continue to monitor my BC.
Your bravery to post here is appreciated by me and many others who don't want the negative feedback.
peace love and good health.xoxo
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Wow chef127 so just so I understand you were stage two and didn't have surgery either? I noticed that my way of thinking differs from the norm but it's the way I am. I only took half a pill of the tomaxifin last night and today I may take none. Even with stage four there must be a different way. I can't accept the attitude of the doctors " You will do chemo down the road " nope not me.
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Of course, the alternative therapies are cheap and no one makes a profit out of them. NOT. Jobs had more money than God and rejected conventional treatment for a rare, curable pancreatic cancer in favour of junk science....when it was too late, he went for conventional. The cost of all those supplements and vitamins are outrageous in a healthfood store and NONE have any double blind clinical evidence to support their use....in some, they actually increase cancer in vitro (essaic tea being one of them). There IS another way for stage 4 (and other stages as well) for treatment and it is called palliative care. I wish each and every one of you good luck with your treatment plans and we all get to make our own choices, hopefully having done research from scientific journals and not Dr. Mercola or other disreputable sites. I think the passion comes from people terrified about your choices and your future....and information should be challenged when someone's life is at stake....esp recommendations for unproven therapies. Be well.
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Like chef127, I had a lumpectomy and rads only-big surgery for a very small tumor because they thought I had DCIS around the tumor, none was found in final pathology (WTF?) following by infected seroma (walled off due to RADS), cellulitis (also thanks to RADS) with emergency surgery to drain that mess and IV antibiotics. The wound was left open to heal-I still have a nice sized hole in my breast (PS says maybe he can fix it but radiated skin is "funny" so no thanks-I'm keeping the hole). Which is too bad because my breast surgeon did a great job with the LX-that incision and my SNB scar are barely visible with no dents or cosmetic problems.
After all that, I felt I'd had enough treatment, declined tamoxifen/hormonal treatment and have concentrated on diet, supplements (many of the same used by macb) exercise and moderating stress. My tumor was very small and tubular in nature (low grade) but I did have one positive node, oncotype 11. Studies of tubular breast cancer are not conclusive about whether or not tamoxifen is even effective since there are so few people with this subtype to study, but my OC recommended it.
When I declined tamoxifen my OC did decline to follow me, but she was very nice about it saying basically all she would be doing would be to monitor me for side effects of the tamoxifen (liver problems, etc.). If I chose not to take it there was no reason for me to continue to see her-no scans or tumor marker tests are done at the breast center I go to for women with my stage/grade of BC. All my follow up is being done w BS-annual mammogram and professional breast exam every six months and at this point, that is enough for me, I feel good and comfortable with my choices.
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Wendy, Yes I had a lumpectomy on the 4.5cm IDC. The surgeon did a great job, I had to travel to NY to find a OS who was confident he could get clear margins. and he only took 8 LN's. My first sugeon wanted to take all 3 levels of nodes, My 2nd consult wanted to do neo chemo to shrink it. I told her that the lump was there for 35 years (a fibro or cyst) and it went over her head. would chemo even shrink a breast cyst???????? and if it did not a Mx and most likely more chemo. It appears the lump changed and became IDC ...or was it cancer all along? I doubt it. OVER-KILL tx.IMHO
Most of us are offered the same tx The drs were not treating me, they were treating the lump I think many of us do not need the standard of care chemo, rads and hormonal tx but no one knows who they are so throw everything available on it and if it causes harm or death its the hazard of the beast.
It makes more sense for me to clean up my lifestyle as best I can and IF I face cancer again I'll deal with it my way, but never poison my body!
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Chef127 thanks for answering I agree most are offered the same treatment. I was diagnosed in June and by June 8th they had chemo scheduled then they found out I was 100 percent hormonal receptive so everything was put on hold. Then ct scan and they found a met on one of my ribs and my C2. Some tests said it was there others said no. I have no pain (yet) but I'm not ready for PALLATIVE care just yet. I'm sorry that I feel different and that I buy into hope . Chemo for me is not hope they slap a number on you and the that's it..
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Bluepearl I'm sorry to detect such a negative vibe in your comment. Every bodies cancer journey is different so to compare is inconsequential. Also I think that the "Junk science" is what will cure this disease in the end. It won't be big pharma for that we are worth way to much. Be happy and I wish you well .
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Wendy,
Bluepearl,
Thanx for the concern about our futures. I am terrified when I read the stats of Stage IV women who did the entire SOC and then some before the mets showed up. I'd be really pissed off and ask my self "was it the chemo that made my cancer resistant and allowed it to spread." It goes both ways. Who knows? A cure is the only acceptable treatment.
Be Well
Maureen
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Hello. I am glad to post some thought provoking comments and info. Bluepearl, there actually are placebo controlled double blind studies of a whole slew of natural treatments and substances. For instance, there was a 2010 or 2012 collaboration between University of Washington, Bastyr University and National Institute of Health in a 5.4 million dollar study funded to study Turkey Tail mushrooms and breast cancer. That is just one example of dozens I could list for those who are skeptical.
I always keep in mind there are more possibilities of health in Mother Nature's cupboard than will ever be dreamed up in a drug factory
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@macb. In terms of Turkey Tail, is this a study or a clinical trial? If it's a clinical trial, please edit your post above by adding the clinicaltrials.gov link as well as any links of the results. Thanks!
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Hi Wendy, do you know how big the spot on your rib was for C scan to find it?
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chef,
But none of us, going into it, are promised a cure, regardless of stage. If you do any research about your type of bc, you find things that decrease recurrence risk, but no cure , per se. Yes, for many lower stage women, if never comes back. But for those who do recur, that was always a known possibility. I agree that a cure should be the only acceptable tx, but we're not there yet. I hope to hang on long enough for that to happen, and for me, so far so good
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This is the second thread devoted to macb04's hatred of the BC industry and traditional medicine. (See "I decided to completely forego any further " C industry care" ?") I hope it remains civil and less angry. Best wishes to all of you, whatever treatments you pursue. Peace out.
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exbrnxgrl,
I never expected a cure from traditional or alternative. At this point the only thing left from traditional is hormonal eradication. I won't go there. If I recur I'll do the surgery. If I move on to stage IV, I want to be just like you.Really.
I had a girlfriend who was dx'ed stage IV ovarian cancer. She lived a very full, happy life for 9 years from one chemo to another, smiling and laughing through it all, and she would have kept on if she could. Its the chemo and her love of life that kept her here. She lived a fuller life in those nine years than I did in 60. Love her.
I will not do that!
Maureen
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I do both traditional and alternative things, taking care that they don't conflict with each other. I feel they both have a place, depending on a particular persons situation. As an example, do mushrooms help? I don't know. But i like them, so I figure it doesn't hurt to add them to my diet.
I have been struggling with adding IV vitamin c and decided not to do it until my traditional treatments are over, which will be in February. I believe there is value in both approaches, but I am not willing to just willy nilly throw a bunch of stuff into cancer treatment without understanding the up and down sides of whatever approach it is.
So I guess what I feel is I would love to see more links to evidence based research regarding alternative treatments, and them I am all for them. I see a lot of people who do traditional treatments, then say I will never do it again, but that is easy to say after you have done treatment, if that makes sense. Like Suzanne Somers, who did surgery and radiation and THEN said I wouldn't do it again. Too late, you already did, and recommending to other people to not do traditional treatment at that point I feel is hypocritical
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Hey all, and ElaineTherese,
I am angry, ferociously angry at this horrible travesty called treatment. I make no apologies about it. That is how I feel. However, that's just it, that is how I feel and believe from my knowledge and experience. I don't ever say onesize fits all, or that I know the only way to health. I firmly and completely believe each person has to do what seems the best choice for them and their situation.
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Hey all, and ElaineTherese,
I am angry, ferociously angry at this horrible travesty called treatment. I make no apologies about it. That is how I feel. However, that's just it, that is how I feel and believe from my knowledge and experience. I don't ever say onesize fits all, or that I know the only way to health. I firmly and completely believe each person has to do what seems the best choice for them and their situation.
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Italychick,
Mushrooms are a great food. Most mushrooms will boost the immune system, not necessarily cancer. The immune system is the key to future cancer tx. IMHO.
Maureen
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Hi JohnSmith, that Turkey Tail study is over but another study ( $2million) is ongoing between NIH and between Bastry and the University of Minnesota on Turkey Tail. I am unable to post links with my tablet, and my computer died, so just put TRAMETES VERSICOLOR AND BREAST CANCER into our friend Google. You can easily find all the latest info on this amazing mushroom that way. I read that in Japan, their socialized type health system puts 25% of their cancer treatment budget into Turkey Tail.
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just because it's natural doesn't mean it's not without side effects. I tried turkey tail and it gave me very bad heart palps. Apparently that is a side effect but not often talked about.
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I find it contra indicative & very confusing when the they say not to eat anti-oxidents for instance as they will compete with chemotherapy. the reason is the purpose of chemotherapy is to reduce the immune system as much as possible so eating anything healthy is contraindicated
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I eat all mushrooms, maitake, shiitake, you name it, but not every day.
Interesting about the turkey tail. I will have to pay attention and see if I notice any palpitations
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abigail48, I thought it was radiation, not chemo
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sudden death from heart attack from radiation is on the wikipedia article on side effects of radiation therapy.(scroll down). death from side effects of chemotherapy on death cirtificates was information posted here I think or possibly here in a private message
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