So I'm due to start tamoxifen but am questioning it.

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CAMommy
CAMommy Member Posts: 437

I had a hysterectomy / BSO two years ago. I was put in a low dose of estrogen. I had a breast MRI done 6 months into my estrogen therapy. All clear. Had a mammo 1 year into estrogen therapy, all clear. Had my routine mammo 1 year later, micro calcs show up. After lumpectomy turns out it was 6 Cm of DCIS. I am 100% convinced my estrogen therapy caused this. Maybe not cause the mutation but caused it to grow to quickly. Now I am off estrogen. I have no ovaries. So why take tamoxifen? I know we make a little estrogen without our ovaries from our adrenal gland and from our fat, I have to believe mine is low. I am really thinking I don't want to do it.

I am going to ask the MO to test my estrogen level before starting. If it's super low, I really see no need to put myself through the side effects.


Comments

  • grammakathy
    grammakathy Member Posts: 407
    edited September 2015

    It sounds like you are thinking things through and are striving for enough information to make your decision. It is great that your DCIS was found before it turned into IDC and had a larger risk of spreading through the lymph or blood systems. I had IDC and wanted to take all steps I could so that I could avoid a spread - although nothing is guaranteed in this BC world. I can accept what happens if I have done my job to prevent it. I also lost my extra weight to remove that extra estrogen. So now I can look forward. I had a lot of side effects from Arimidex and changed to Tamoxifen on my MO's recommendation. My side effects are few and inconsistent - occasional sleeplessness, leg & foot cramps. If it is recommended by your oncologists, you might consider trying the tamoxifen and seeing how you react. You can always stop! Best wishes!

  • dtad
    dtad Member Posts: 2,323
    edited September 2015
    Hi there.Usually once your ovaries are removed you are considered post menopausal and thus one of the A's are recommended. Good luck to you.....
  • BarredOwl
    BarredOwl Member Posts: 2,433
    edited November 2015

    Hi:

    The National Comprehensive Cancer Center (NCCN) guidelines (Version 3_2015) (still current as of this date) indicate the following re menopausal status:

    "Reasonable criteria for determining menopause include any of the following:
    • Prior bilateral oophorectomy . . ."

    Regarding the treatment of pure DCIS, the NCCN guidelines for "Breast Cancer" state:

    "Risk reduction therapy for ipsilateral breast following breast-conserving surgery:

    Consider tamoxifen for 5 years for:
    • Patients treated with breast-conserving therapy (lumpectomy) and radiation therapy (category 1), especially for those with ER-positive DCIS. . .

    According to the NCCN Panel, tamoxifen may be considered as a strategy to reduce the risk of ipsilateral breast cancer recurrence in women with ER-positive DCIS treated with breast-conserving therapy (category 1 for those undergoing breast-conserving surgery followed by radiation therapy; category 2A for those undergoing excision alone). The benefit of tamoxifen for ER-negative DCIS is not known."

    [Edit: Please see further message below regarding additional options]

    There is a very recent 2015 abstract and related article regarding some results from the NRG Oncology/NSABP B-35 trial of anastrozole (an aromatase inhibitor) vs tamoxifen in postmenopausal women with ER-receptor or PgR-receptor positive (by IHC analysis) DCIS and no invasive BC who had undergone a lumpectomy with clear resection margins:

    Abstract: http://meetinglibrary.asco.org/content/146144-156

    Article: http://www.onclive.com/conference-coverage/asco-20...

    BarredOwl

  • CAMommy
    CAMommy Member Posts: 437
    edited September 2015

    yes, my MO wanted tamoxifen because I'm pure DCIS.

    Being in memopause naturally and having surgical menopause are different. The ovaries, even in menopause produce small amounts of estrogen. Since I don't have ovaries I'm producing next to none.

    My mom and my grandmother did not recur or develop new BC and they never took tamoxifen but both had their ovaries removed. I'm wondering if that would be enough. I may try it, no harm in that but everything causes me side effects. In have a sensitive system.

  • BarredOwl
    BarredOwl Member Posts: 2,433
    edited November 2015

    Hi CAMommy:

    This topic was recently discussed in another thread, and I have edited by my post above and provide the following regarding some additional options for completeness. The use of aromatase inhibitors for pure DCIS does not appear to be discussed in the guidelines for the treatment of "Breast Cancer" from the National Comprehensive Cancer Center (NCCN), Professional Version 3-2015. That guideline document features tamoxifen for risk reduction therapy for the ipsilateral breast following breast-conserving surgery. However, it refers to a second NCCN guideline for "Breast Cancer Risk Reduction" (version 2-2015) with respect to risk reduction therapy for the contralateral breast. The second guideline document discusses several options for post-menopausal women, including tamoxifen, raloxifene, and the Aromatase Inhibitors exemestane (Aromasin) and anastrozole (Arimidex).

    Although the guideline for "Breast Cancer Risk Reduction" (version 2-2015) notes that "Exemestane and anastrozole are not currently FDA approved for breast cancer risk reduction," it does include these drugs as available choices:

    "The NCCN experts serving on the Breast Cancer Risk Reduction Panel have included exemestane and anastrozole as choices of risk-reduction agent for most postmenopausal women desiring non-surgical risk-reduction therapy (category 1). This is based on the results of the MAP.3 trial and the IBIS-II trial."

    Here are the cited trial reports:

    MAP.3 Trial:

    (Text): http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1103507...

    (Pdf): http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMoa1103507

    Correction: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMx110056

    IBIS-II Trial:

    http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(13)62292-8

    As noted above, there is also this recent abstract from the NRG Oncology/NSABP B-35 trial of anastrozole (an aromatase inhibitor) vs tamoxifen in post-menopausal women with ER-receptor or PgR-receptor positive DCIS who had undergone a lumpectomy with clear resection margins:

    NRG Oncology/NSABP B-35 trial:

    Abstract: http://meetinglibrary.asco.org/content/146144-156

    Article: http://www.onclive.com/conference-coverage/asco-20...

    Article: http://www.ascopost.com/ViewNews.aspx?nid=29595

    In post-menopausal women, consideration of a variety of factors, including risk/benefit profiles, will be factored in when choosing tamoxifen, raloxifene, or an aromatase inhibitor (exemestane (Aromasin), anastrozole (Arimidex)).

    BarredOwl

  • CAMommy
    CAMommy Member Posts: 437
    edited October 2015

    thanks for the updated info. I was just looking at the IBIS-II trial and saw this:

    1920 women were randomly assigned to receive anastrozole and 1944 to placebo. After a median follow-up of 5·0 years (IQR 3·0–7·1), 40 women in the anastrozole group (2%) and 85 in the placebo group (4%) had developed breast cancer (hazard ratio 0·47, 95% CI 0·32–0·68, p<0·0001). The predicted cumulative incidence of all breast cancers after 7 years was 5·6% in the placebo group and 2·8% in the anastrozole group. 18 deaths were reported in the anastrozole group and 17 in the placebo group, and no specific causes were more common in one group than the other (p=0·836).

    I keep seeing this as a result, yes hormonal so decrease recurrence but they don't decrease mortality. They don't seem to stop cancer from becoming metastatic. I find this distressing.


  • BarredOwl
    BarredOwl Member Posts: 2,433
    edited November 2015

    Hi CAMommy:

    IBIS-II Trial:

    http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(13)62292-8

    The number of deaths reported as 18 and 17 include deaths from all causes, not just breast cancer per Table 2. Deaths from breast cancer were 2 (n = 1920) in the treatment arm and 0 (n = 1944) in the placebo arm. I am not sure what that means, but with such small numbers, it seems possible that the result may not be meaningful (possibly just due to chance)?

    BarredOwl

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