Medicare Payment for Bi-Lateral Masectomy? Help!
I was told that I had DCIS on September 18, five days after a needle excisional biopsy to remove what the surgeon believed were atypical cells characteristic of carcinoma. My surgeon quickly set a date for surgery on October 2, 2015.. He has not discussed my case with me or given me any surgical options. I had to do some research to figure out that he probably was intending to do a lumpectomy followed by radiation. I have instead suggested that I should have a masectomy in my right breast, the location of the DCIS, because I don't think I can handle the cost or physical demands of radiation. I live out in the country, and it will be hard or maybe impossible for me to have radiation treatment for six weeks. I asked the doctor's nurse about having a prophylactic masectomy on the left breast that is at this point cancer free. She said it was unlikely that Medicare would pay for a bi-lateral breast surgery. I don't understand why this is the case, as my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer at age 76 and she now has metastatic breast cancer in the liver and bones. It would seem to me that I am high risk for cancer in both breasts and insurance companies are required to pay for all surgical treatments for high risk patients. Can anyone shed any light on Medicare reimbursement for bi-lateral breast cancer even if the cancer is only in one breast? Would a strongly worded letter from the GYN doctor who first identified my mother's cancer help my case? My mother's oncologist just had a heart attack so I doubt he will be available to weigh in. What do I do? The surgeon wants to move quickly. He took out way more tissue that he thought was necessary during the needle exicisional biopsy based on a host of diagnostic images, including special mammograms right to place a wire in my breast before surgery, and he still found pre-cancerous cells at the margins.
Comments
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Dear DecisionFreak, We are glad that you reached out here for information and support. You may want to review some of the topics in the DCIS forum where others may have similar situations and advice. The Mods
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decision freak,
The mods have made a good suggestion. The dcis forum is a great source of knowledge. I would like to add that unless you know that you are BRCA positive, having a parent with breast cancer does not make you high risk. At this point in time, with the genetic testing available, only a small percentage of breat cancers are genetically linked (less than 20%). I too have metastatic bc, but I have no positive BRCA genes, therefore, my daughters do not face any greater risk. Wishing you the best
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Thank you for weighing in, exbrnxgrl. I neglected to mention that I have fibromyalgia and am severely and permanently disabled based on SSI disability board in my state. I am also a single woman living on SSDI. I frankly cannot afford radiation therapy, and it will be very difficult for me to pay for a series of breast surgeries. The fact that the surgeon took a great deal of tissue and still did not achieve clean margin is troubling. I know that some people are in a hurry to get the problem off their chest, LOL, but in my case, I have many health and social factors working against me. I also suffer from crippling anxiety that the SSI disability board said was a factor that kept me from being able to work full time. The anxiety has turned into a full blown panic disorder in the last couple of years. I read somewhere that anxiety itself is a factor also in the insurance compay's decision to approve a bi-lateral masectomy. I am getting ready to try low dose naltrexone (LDN) for the fibromyalgia, and there is a possiblity that it may ease my fibromyalgia enough to improve my quality of life. However, the anxiety is here to stay. Nobody has ever found a cure for anxiety, and it can only be managed by medications. So, I would say that my interest in having a BMX is also related to high anxiety levels.Like some other women, I would like to get this problem off my chest and move on to achieve the best health possible. However, it still might be wise to have one breast removed, which the surgeon's nurse said would be covered by Medicare, and monitor the other closely. The fact that the surgeon's nurse readily said that Medicare would cover the procedure suggests that the pathology report was not good, but I have not even seen it yet. I did not know until I went through the needle exicisional biopsy that the DCIS is invisible and that nobody can tell where it starts and ends from the diagnostic imaging. Nobody tells you that when you start this confusing process.
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Hello, dear,
I'm sorry you're going through so many trials. It must be exhausting. Just want to mention that if you're on Medicare, Medicare pays for radiation and surgery costs. I don't know what their criteria is for double mastectomy. I have to say that your mother getting cancer at 76 does not necessarily indicate you have an inherited propensity for breast cancer. If you mom got cancer at 40, it would. By 76, the number of mutations to get breast cancer have had time to happen, so her cancer is probably sporatic not inherited.
Perhaps Medicare pays for genetic testing which could put your mind at ease. I'm pretty sure that Medicare paid for my BRCA testing, and I have no more family history than you do.
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Hi, WinningSoFa…,
I think your list of trials and tribulations far exceeds mine! Congratulations for surviving and maintaining a sense of humanity. I was exposed to high doses of dietylstilbesterol (DES) in the womb. DES was a hormone given to women at high risk for miscarriage in the 1950s. My mother started to bleed when she was pregnant with me. At some point, she ended up in a hospital in Florida where they pumped her full of DES intended supposedly to stop her from having a miscarriage. She got a huge dose of hormones, and I got a bath of the same hormones in the womb. That is most likely why she got breast cancer, as women who took DES are I believe at higher risk for breast cancer. I am not sure about their daughters, but I never felt very good in my entire life, and I pushed myself through a great deal of advanced education and a high powered career despite having low energy and feeling poorly. Medicare pays for surgery and radiation, but the co-pays add up. As I mentioned, I Iive out in the country. I don't drive, and I get exhausted easily from the fibromyalgia. I really don't want radiation because it will be a trial for me to go to radiation for six weeks, and I don't want to take tamoxifen. I already take some medications daily, although I am waiting to hear that the doctors want me to stop the female hormones (progesterone and estradial). I called the surgeon's nurse a week ago and asked her to discuss my female hormones with the surgeon, but haven't heard anything. I am going to be crying the blues when the doctors tell me to stop the hormones, and I am frankly surprised that they haven't already told me to throw them down the drain. In any case, I am probably getting close to $800 or maybe more in Medicare co-pays for mammograms, ultrasound, stereoscopic biopsy, outpatient hospitalization services, and the surgeon's modest fee for the needle excisional biopsy that lasted two hours. I don't have supplemental insurance because I am disabled under 65 and supplemental is expensive. What I already owe does not include the next surgery planned for the end of the coming week. Ouch. The surgeon's nurse already told me Medicare will pay for a single masectomy of the affected breast, and perhaps I should go with that option.I can always have the other breast removed later if it worries me too much, I guess. I don't like the idea of the sentinel node biopsy which I just learned about on this site. However, my mother did not have any problems with lymphedema, and the statistics suggest that only five to 10 percent of women will develop lymphedema. I guess I should have the genetic testing, but nobody so far has mentioned the idea to me. We don't know of any ancestors who were Ashkenazi Jews, but we are descended from several very wealthy families from Pennsulvania who may have hidden their Jewish origins. Oh, for the money they had! Breast cancer, however, has no respect for money and status, does it? I cannot for the life of me figure out how Jackie Collins, who was wealthy beyond belief, died from breast cancer. Or why my mother's oncolologist, who has access to the best medical care money can buy, had a heart attack, as I don't think he is even 50 years old. Sorry, I guess I got off the point here, but I guess it relieves anxiety to ramble on and on.
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Interesting. My mom may have taken DES too. Same time frame and she had a history of miscarriages. I'll never know because she has gone to her final reward.
Two things I would not worry about: Tamoxifen and sentinel node biopsy. Regarding tamoxifen, it blocks estrogen receptors on the tumor cells. If you need it, it really works well. Minimum of side effects. I experienced none, other than a rather abrupt menopause, which I was going to go through anyway.
Regarding sentinel node biopsy, consider that to be a plus. They find the first draining nodes and take those instead of taking a lot of nodes. With SNB, you have a smaller chance of lymphedema. It's an advance in surgery, not a negative.
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As mentioned, your mother's age at diagnosis, suggests that her bc was not BRCA related. Although being of Askenazi descent does increase your chance of having the BRCA gene, I am an Ashkenazi Jew and don't have it (my paternal grandmother had bc, but my aunts, in their 70's and 90's, don't). If you are concerned about a genetic mutation, see if you can get a referral to a genetic counselor who can help you evaluate whether BRCA testing would be helpful. BTW, if you're post- menopausal, Tamoxifen is not the drug of choice. Aromatase inhibitors (Arimidex, Femara, Aromasin) would more likely be prescribed. As for lymphedema, if you are have a mastectomy, a sentinel node biopsy is the only was to know if cancer has moved to the lymph nodes. If it has, that becomes an important factor in making treatment decisions. If I'm not mistaken, a snb can't be done after you've already had a mastectomy. Lymphedema is a concern we all share, but it's part of bc that we all deal with. I've had axillary node clearance and have very mild and manageable lymphedema, but there's no way to predict how it will effect you, if at all.
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WinningSoFa, and exbrnxgrl
My mother had miscarriage problems and other immediate family members have suffered from the same condition. Well, it is good to know that the SNB testing may not be a big problem and may well be a very good thing. I am post-menopausal with a wonderful GYN doctor who gave me a prescription for female hormones two or three years ago. He shuddered, i think, every time he agreed to keep me on it as he first detected my mother's breast cancer. I don't regret the HRT. I had two or maybe three years of improved quality of life beyond what I had experienced in many years. So, you roll tthe dice. I don't know that the HRT caused the breast cancer, anyway. My mother had no problem with lymphedema after her full masectomy from invasive breast cancer. She was about 76 when she was diagnosed with breast cancer, and she received chemo or biological therapy (not sure if she got herceptin the first time around) along with radiation and with tamoxifen. One of the radiation technicians stayed home on a day when she was scheduled for therapy. The doctor was not supervising the techs, she said. She was badly burned that day, and it took her many years to heal from the radiation wounds. So, you can see why I am not interested in radiation beyond my own health problems.I don't like what I have read about radiation, either. It just doesn't sit well with me. My mother had yearly exams for cancer, and she was cancer free for three years. Then, she got tired of doctors and refused to go for her annual CT scan and blood tests. She had some unrelated medical problems for which she was hospitalized. The doctor in charge told her she was in great health when he discharged her (well, she has diabetes and peripheral artery disease). She had a huge mass or belt of something around her waist for which this physician gave her a diuretic. When she got out of the hospital, she complained about back pain. We took her immediately to the ER. The young physician took a few images of her abdomen, and he told us that her breast cancer had metastisized to the liver and bones. She was 84, and she wanted to live. We took her back, frail and small, to the oncologist. He agreed to give her chemo (actually, herceptin) and tamoxifen, and he wondered out loud why she ever stopped taking the tamoxifen. She just didn't want to take it. In a few weeks, the rattle in her breathing when she slept stopped. The big belt around her waist vanished. It was, I found out from a nurse, ascites from the cancer invading her liver, not simple water retention. She has lived for 7 months after the cancer recurrence was discovered. As for any genetic mutation, I would imagine that her oncologist tested her or decided it was irrelevant. He is conscientious to a fault. I never heard her mention it, so it is most likely not an important element in my story. It is typical human behavior to look for reasons for events that we think will disrupt our lives. I had two tick bites and a clinical diagnosis of Lyme disease. I have walked to the abyss and looked down in it from what one of my doctors believes is neurolyme. I don't like the idea of dealing with the possibility of invasive breast cancer, but I would rather take aggressive action. I don't think that the philosophy of watch and wait will work very well for me at the age of 60. Maybe it is okay for someone younger. I want to get on with my life. Anyway, low dose naltrexone is also being studied (with alpha lipoic acid in one study) by various researchers with high interest from the National Cancer Institute for its potential in stopping the spread of breast cancer and metastatic breast cancer. I am slated to start it to see if it will beat down my fibromyalgia as soon as all of the narcotics from the surgery are flushed from my body. Everything changes, every day. -
Hmmm...I guess I should move to the DCIS forum. I still think that I am at high risk due to the DES exposure that placed my mother at high risk. And, in fact, I do seem to be at high risk since I have developed DCIS at age 60, and my mother has breast cancer. Maybe I don't understand the high risk definition. Anyway, I appreciate the very helpful comments on this forum. I read through the info written by a member on the DCIS forum and it was very illuminating. I think I have a headache now. The surgeons have scheduled me for this coming Friday. That is two surgeries in three weeks with the diagnosis for DCIS coming five days after the needle excisional biopsy. Nobody has told me why the surgeon is in such a hurry.
So, I will move this discussion to DCIS.
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Unfirtunately I wouldn't put much weight into the cancer LDN connection . I don't think there is one. At least I haven't seen it. I have been taking maximum dose of LDN for a year now and still got ADH which now makes me high risk for BC
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I was 66 when diagnosed and was told that my sisters and daughters were not at risk because if any of us had the gene the breast cancer would have shown up sooner. Age is the risk factor in many cases.
Your surgeon does not make the decision regarding which surgery to have. If you want a mastectomy let them know.
Incidentally anxiety can indeed be cured with meditation and mindfulness. :-)
Best of luck to you.
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Hi, again, I want to be a good citizen of this online community, so this is the last post I am making on this forum. I have moved to DCIS. These are responses to the last two people who responded to my ramblings. I appreciate all the very kind efforts to help me grapple with this diagnosis and how to manage my health. No offense meant if I disagree in some cases with what is said. Everybody has his or her own lenses through which he or she views the world. Neither of these posts are very relevant to high risk breast cancer, so that is why I am going to stop posting here.
Ddw79,NCI is supporting studies of LDN for BC. That doesn't mean LDN will help everybody. I am sorry that you have not reaped any benefits from this safe inexpensive, and widely available drug. No, I am not getting any money from the manufacturer or from anybody for writing about LDN. LDN has already shown promise in some preliminary research studies, at least one of which is being supported by the National Cancer Institute, where BC patients are given the drug to study the hypothesis that LDN may help some people stop breast cancer and metastatic breast cancer from progressing. This type of scientific evidence is the weakest possible, but for people who suffer without remedy from a serious illness, it suggests a possible role for LDN, maybe in some types of breast cancer. Same goes for LDN and a possible role in treating fibromyalgia, rheumatoid arthritis, Crohn's disease, and a host of other chronic diseases. LDN itself is a proven treatment for heroin addiction at full dose, and it is also being used for alcohol addiction. It blocks beta-endorphin receptors and for some reason leads to higher circulating endorphin levels. Endorphin is a natural feel good chemical similar to narcotics but created by the body often in response to intense pain. LDN also at lower doses blocks cytokine pathways and can reduce inflammatory processes and the pain that comes from inflammation. The evidence is weak, preliminary, but promising. My shrink told me that some fibromyalgia patients have had an increase in gray matter in their brains after taking LDN, and I read about at least one double-blind, placebo/control group study showing that some fibro patients in the study of LDN and fibromyalgia pain experienced a reduction in pain and an improved quality of life. However, LDN doesn't help everybody with breast cancer or fibro.
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True
I haven't really noticed much on 4.5 of the LDN. Sure didn't stop my breast abnormalities but it has seemed of slight benefit in other ways with no SEs so I remain on it for no
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I have told the Moderators that I am moving my discussion to the DCIS forum, since it has changed from High Risk for Breast Cancer to other topics. You can find me there, as I have made my first post asking for help in navigating my medical care.
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