Building our immune systems with Stage IV bc

Annieoakley my onc recommends Squalene (shark liver oil) to boost white blood cell counts along with Maitake drops, which is said to help build both red and white.  Also, the holistic pharmacist recommends blackstrap molasses which helps to build both red and white blood cells.  Also Astragalus as Dlb has mentioned has been recommended by my onc. Twice a day between meals.

Dlb many of the supplements that I take are by Thon, which is known to be one of the top manufacturers.  All are recommended by my onc.  Regarding the Glutathion, I think I get 500 mg each week, but that may not be right.  I will check the next time I go and let you know.

Jenn I am definitely going to check the Transfer Factor, since I take all of my mushroom supplements separately, ie Maitake drops, Shitake, Chagra, Coriolus and sometimes Reishi since it's suppossed to help to calm you and facilitate sleep.

I just want to mention that my onc recently published a book called the Gene Therapy Plan . I've attached a link if anyone is interested. 

http://genechanger.com/gene-therapy-plan-taking-control-genetic-destiny-diet-lifestyle/

Annie I also believe that we need to be integrative in our approach, both at Stage 1V and at earlier stages.  I truly believe that the integrative treatments have allowed me to tolerate the chemo with minimal side effects, maximum energy, and have helped me to maintain good QOL.

I forgot to mention previously that I also take Merformin daily.  There have been studies that have shown that Metformin helps control the spead of the cancer.

I love this discussion we have so much to learn from each other.   

Alkaline water - Do any of you find alkaline water does not quench your thirst. I don't know why, but I had to stop drinking it for that reason!

About iron - I used to work as a nephrology nurse and I have done a lot of research on this subject as people with kidney disease struggle with anemia like people with cancer.

Here is an interesting easy to read article about iron, cancer and angiogenesis: http://www.okayama-u.ac.jp/en/tp/release/release_i...

When taken orally only about 85% of iron is absorbed into the body. IV iron is really the only way to go if you need iron, but that would be primarily for anemia from blood loss. The anemia related to chronic disease, cancer, and cancer treatments like chemo or radiation is due to many factors and the anemia is not always best treated by supplemental iron.

We should avoid excessive iron concentration in the body because it is linked to cancer cell proliferation. You can get too much iron, esp if you receive a lot of blood transfusions, (Not good as you are feeding those thirsty cancer cells).However, having too little iron in your system is terrible for healthy cells and the immune system. It's tricky because If your iron levels gets really low in the blood stream it signals cancer cells to multiply and it produces an angiogenic factor called VEGF (cant remember what it stands for) Low iron = low oxygen (hypoxia). Hypoxia makes HIF (hypoxia-inductible factor) which causes tumor progression. The inside of a young tumor is desperate for angiogenesis because it lacks oxygen. Just think of the possibilities if we could disrupt these pathways!

Cancer cells utilize more iron that normal cells and iron proteins are essential for DNA synthesis so genetics get involved. I think I read there is a link with HIF-1 and the HER2+ and the formation of the drug Herpecin, but I am not absolutely sure.

Also you should stop taking iron if you have a bacterial infection because most bacteria, like cancer, thrive in an iron-rich environment. I would only take iron supplements if I was in not in menopause and/or bleeding. Fortunately, those days are long gone

Paradoxically (to me, at least), exercise is one of the most angiogenetic things you can do. From all the exercising I've done through the years since my diagnosis I can see all the blood vessels that weren't there before! So it can't be that angiogenesis is always bad. Maybe it allows immune cells to get around or signal each other more easily?  Exercise does release anti-inflammatory proteins and maybe this accounts for the beneficial effect (although too much exercise can be proinflammatory). Is angiogenesis combined with anti-inflammatories good then (through diet, meds or supplements) or is it a different kind of angiogenesis you get with exercise to begin with? Or is the increased nutrition uptake through vascular expansion to hungry exercised muscles starving off cancer cells? Can cancers resistant to antiangiogenetic drugs be treated with anti-inflammatories (Celebrex or cortisone comes to mind)? Maybe these questions are for another thread.

Good questions Heidi. I do recall reading that Celebrex may have anti-cancer proprties. 

Exercise does increase metabalism which aids in reducing glucose levels.  And we all know how sugar feeds the cancer.

http://centerforintegratedmed.com/holistic-medicine/detoxification/far-infrared-sauna-therapy/

http://www.rethinkingcancer.org/resources/magazine...

I am still investigating and experimenting with this, but has anyone used infrared saunas to improve their immune system? My MO wasn't totally onboard with this because she feared dehydration. However, she was referring to traditional saunas that are much hotter and use moist heat/air. I don't think she knew much about how infrared works. I've only had 3 sessions so far. I am spreading them out so that I don't risk dehydration and so any detoxing that happens goes slowly and doesn't make me sick. With all the crazy drugs and chemistry I've taken, I can imagine detoxing could be a painful thing!

Here is what I've noticed so far. On the day I take the sauna, I require less pain medication. In fact after the first sauna, I took my regular Oxy and had to go to bed because I felt so high. I believe this is due to increased blood circulation following the sauna. Of course, that made me wonder if other drugs are more efficient with improved circulation. I read here on the boards that someone used infrared saunas on the day of chemo to improve efficacy. I also notice a small increase in energy the following day. It doesn't last much longer than that, but possibly with more sessions, my energy level will increase. I know I've read that lessening the toxin load on your body can improve immune response. Studies have shown that infrared releases far more toxins in your sweat than exercise or even traditional saunas because the sympathetic nervous system is not activated as it is in exercise.

Anyway, just exploring this and wondered if anyone else had any experience with it. If nothing else, I am just hoping to feel a little more energetic with a little less pain!

Btw, someone mentioned Metformin. I was really interested in this a couple years ago. Has there been any follow up studies that have shown this to be helpful? How are you getting the Metformin off label?

Thanks for all the great information. I have to say, my head swims with all this. I wish there was a simple way. You know, a daily pill with no side effects? Isn't that the American way? (sarcasm)

Vivian, I just re-read your post on iron. I've never taken iron, but I cook with cast iron almost every day. I love the non stick heavy pans for heat distribution and that never get crusty and pealing like Teflon, etc. however, after reading what you wrote, I am questioning my use of these pans. Shoot.

I go to a local studio that also does hot yoga and a few other spa services. I bought a bundle so it wasn't as expensive. Single sessions are about $35, but by buying a bundle they are about $12 a session. This studio uses Sunlighten saunas, which use near, mid, and far infrared. The mix of infrared used enhances certain outcomes, such as for pain, detox, or weight loss.

Hopefully, I can report back in a few weeks on any progress. I have heard from a handful of friends that they have benefitted health wise from regularly using infrared saunas. I'm still in the evaluation stage.

The iron info really has me thinking about my cookware choices. I got rid of nonstick a long time ago, but making an egg in a stainless steel pan is a lesson in frustration. What does everyone else use? So much conflicting information on this.

Ann, John Smith just posted about that conference on his thread https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/73/topic/830016?page=1#post_4402715 . I am assuming it is the same conference.  It will be wonderful to hear what a breast cancer oncologist has to say about it.

Thank you everyone for all of the info on this thread.

dlb823, this is a fabulous thread!  Thank you so much for starting it, and for sharing your excellent research!

To Heidehill's question about exercise, regular exercise tends to lower estrogen levels in postmenopausal women, which is a good thing!  https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/center-news/2004/05/excercise.html

I totally believe that diet and appropriate supplements (tailored to the individual) can play a key role relative to wellness.  A great book on the subject is "Anti Cancer: A New Way of Life" by Dr. David Servain-Schreiber.  I also very much enjoyed - and learned things from - the Gene Therapy Plan video.  Artichokes, here we come!

Finally, unless medically necessary, reducing iron and copper intake can have beneficial effects against cancer. 

Lots to think about!

Pearlady, just took the time to check out the link you provided on the book your mO wrote. Great information. I went through much of the information on the website and it confirmed much of what I already know, but I learned a few things too. I think I will download the book. How lucky are you to have an MO with such an integrative approach. I am still searching for that, but need to keep my out of pocket costs under control. Anyone have an integrative oncologist in Southern California?

Ok, need to get to my sauna session soon. Later today, I will try to get through some of the other info everyone here is providing. Keep it up!

I remember reading about this for before chemo, but didn't know there was further research.

I wonder. The medicine I'm taking now, Palbociclib with Letrozole, lowers the white blood cell count considerably, and obliterates our neutrophils. It took me three weeks off the medicine (one week is built into the protocol) for my white blood cell count to come back sufficiently to restart the next cycle of the medicine. I hope they are "new and improved" white blood cells and give my immune system a big boost! Wouldn't that be nice? Wouldn't dare try fasting on this medication, though. It would probably knock me out.

Just finished reading those articles on fasting. Wow, I want a new immune system! Fasting could be a good way to get my perpetually low wbc back up. Now, to figure out how to do a 2-3 day fast. Not an easy task. Anyone done one successfully lately? Any tips? Did you do water only, or did you juice or drink broth?

Thank you for the links.

It does appear that immunotherapy could really be a game changer. I'm just worry about how long it will take to get it ironed out and into mainstream treatment.

Me, too. They are making amazing progress with Melanoma and others, but it doesn't seem like they are fast-tracking the breast cancer immune therapy treatment. My brother passed away at age 50 from metastatic melanoma, and I am really happy for all of those who will be able to take advantage of this miraculous development. Unfortunately, it is coming 10 years too late for my bro.

It may be my imagination, but it seems like the 100mgs that I am on now is a lot easier on me than the 125 was. No tiredness, no bloody nose or any SEs at all that I can discern. I hope my counts are hanging in there, too.